GUILTY Afghanistan - US Soldier guns down 16 civilians, 2012 Kandahar massacre

[PHB]

I was watching a documentary the other day and a pawn broker was on and he said that parents are having to pawn some of their belongings to buy their young soldiers bullet proof jackets because the ones the army are handing out are used and falling apart. One parent said he had to buy his son a helmet because the one they gave him didn't fit right and they wouldn't give him one that did. Stories like this should not be happening. The least we can do is properly give our soldiers the right gear and the right medical treatment. I would gladly pay more taxes if I knew the money would be used for that. I think all soldiers should have to talk to a therapist before they are released. They should have access to a group they can join when they get home, so they can have individual as well as group therapy.

BBM. From what I understand, some servicemen don't want to be diagnosed w/ PTSD. Alot for LEOs are former military, and a diagnosis of PTSD would keep them out of the police academy. Also in certain states, I think, any mental health history bars you from private firearms ownership.
Can someone with LE experience, or any gun enthusiasts chime in here?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

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UPDATE: (AP) - US official: Solder accused of killing Afghan civilians flown to Kuwait

 

[michmi]

Good report. They are questioning the PTSD coverup at the base hospital.

Bothers me though they are stating so much stuff in the first part of the video as fact just because the army has leaked it.

As far as the VA acting like PTSD and brain injury aren't widespread from combat duty, we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg as far as "aberrant" acts by current and former military personnel.

Many of the traumatically brain-injured will probably end up with dementia, and it will hit them at a younger age. Who is going to take care of them? The VA is washing its hands now, but traumatic brain injury is a verified precursor to dementia--and if they would give these guys proper imaging tests, they will see brain damage. So right now, unless the person's head is blown half off, nobody is getting the proper imaging or cognitive testing, nor are they getting the proper follow-up care for their legit combat injuries.

 

[MsFacetious]

The New York Daily News featured the headline “Sergeant Psycho.” :what:

---------------------------------------------

So, as a combat veteran who has survived PTSD and now takes part in research and treatment for wounded warriors with PTSD and Traumatic Brain Injuries (TBI), I’d like to weigh in.

To the editors and entire staff of the New York Daily News: Screw You. Go to war, come home, go to war again. Keep this up for 10 years. Then see how funny you think that headline is. You have no standing to make this judgment. None. :clap:

------------------------------------------

I heard someone on the radio today say that PTSD is the common cold of mental health conditions. That’s really unlikely to lower the stigma of a soldier asking for help.

From personal experience I can tell you I would have swapped a cold any day for the experience of sitting alone in the desert with a pistol in my hand ready to commit suicide because I couldn’t stop the images of dead and mutilated bodies from taking over my brain.
No, most definitely not a cold. And not helpful.

http://battleland.blogs.time.com/2012/03/14/afghan-massacre-rush-to-judgment/#ixzz1pAPCmrMq

 

[Dr.Fessel]

The killings, Karzai’s office said in a statement Thursday, has “damaged the U.S. and Afghan relationship.”

Foreign troops in Afghanistan must withdrawal from village outposts and return to large NATO bases, the president’s statement said. Karzai also said he wants Afghan troops to assume primary responsibility for security nationwide by the end of next year, ahead of the timeframe U.S. commanders have endorsed.

Karzai does not have the authority to enforce a pullback of foreign troops, however. And the United States has repeatedly rebuffed previous demands that it halt night raids and remove private security contractors from the country.

U.S. military officials tout the night raids on the homes of suspected militants, conducted by U.S. and Afghan special operations forces, as essential to defeating the Taliban insurgency. Karzai has complained that the raids produce too many casualties.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...s-from-burns/2012/03/15/gIQAL9LVDS_story.html

 

[Dr.Fessel]

General Gurganus told reporters later that he had wanted a consistent policy for everyone in the tent, and that “I wanted to have the Marines look just like their Afghan partners,” noting, “You’ve got one of the most important people in the world in the room.” He insisted that his decision had had nothing to do with the massacre; later, defense officials said the decision had had nothing to do with the truck at the airfield.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/15/w...s-afghanistan-following-massacre.html?_r=1&hp

What an idiot jerk. I feel sorry for anyone fighting under him.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Fox news just did a real good spot on the disarming of the marines for Panetta's visit.

 

[Herding Cats]

Time to come home. You don't want us there? Cool beans. Bring the troops home. NOW. (And yes, I'm well aware of the potential repercussions...). It's time our folks came home.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[Nova]

Time to come home. You don't want us there? Cool beans. Bring the troops home. NOW. (And yes, I'm well aware of the potential repercussions...). It's time our folks came home.

Best-
Herding Cats

I'm not disagreeing with your desire to see the troops come home, HC, but I don't think we were ever there because the Afghans wanted us.

I think we may have been there originally to catch bin Laden, but we have never really been told why we stayed after it became clear that bin Laden had escaped into Pakistan.

I suspect it has something to do with global geo-politics and protecting Middle Eastern oil from Russian or Chinese incursion, but neither commander-in-chief involved has ever really explained.

 

[jjenny]

I agree. But overlong and too frequent tours are only part of the equation.

I thought we had learned from Vietnam the tragedies that result from putting young men into a combat zone in which it is impossible to tell combatants from civilians. I'm not suggesting this shooter didn't know he was shooting civilian children; I'm saying that the "flight or fight stress" must be nearly constant and, for some, unbearable in a guerrilla war. (We see similar problems among British soldiers in their historical engagements in India, Africa and North America.)

As far as I gather they were not in any operation when this happened. What he is accused of appears to be completely senseless and atrocious.

 

[songline]

"For if you suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves and then punish them." Sir Thomas Moore Utopia

The military has a duty to take care of the soldiers we send to battle yet they discard them like the daily trash. Veterans living on the streets because they couldn't deal with the baggage they were carrying from war is a very sad reality.

Do I think this soldier should be punished? Absolutely, he should be punished to the fullest extent. Do I think the government/military should act the least bit surprised that it happened? No way, they know what they create, they know the damage done by tours of duty, yet they return people to war who they know darn well should have had an honorable discharge instead.

My father fought in Vietnam, he did three tours. He left a man who loved to be with his family, loved to hug his kids, beamed when he sat and watched us play on the floor. He returned an empty shell, one who left his kids, stole all of the money from the family, and hung up on his oldest daughter any time she tried to reach out to him. I didn't cry the day he died because he may as well have been dead when he got back from Vietnam. His soul was gone, he was nothing more than skin, bones, and a few organs to keep him alive.

War changes people. War molds people. It's not always in positive ways.

I am not surprised this happened. Saddened by it, yes...surprised by it, not for a moment.

JMHO

I like your post, but thank God your father was not shot in the head and have his brain rearranged.
Yes the army knew what they created.
But no I do not think this man needs to pay any more than he already paid.
His brain will never be the same and certainly his life wont either.

the military does not take care of their men.
come to NYC - many are homeless.

 

[songline]

And President Obama and Cameron beat the war drums about Iran, Syria and Afghanistan in a news conference and not one single reporter asked a question about the shooting.

They must hae been instructed not to ask :maddening:

 

[songline]

What does it mean. bring him into the US? He was a US citizen, he lived here.

If he received an honorable discharge after his third deployment, due to his traumatic brain injury while on deployment, where should they have sent him?

HOME here in the USA - not overseas to war again.

 

[PHB]

HOME here in the USA - not overseas to war again.

BBM. He may have volunteered to go back. I know a medic w/ terrible PTSD who has repeatedly volunteered for additional tours.

 

[Herding Cats]

I'm not disagreeing with your desire to see the troops come home, HC, but I don't think we were ever there because the Afghans wanted us.

I think we may have been there originally to catch bin Laden, but we have never really been told why we stayed after it became clear that bin Laden had escaped into Pakistan.

I suspect it has something to do with global geo-politics and protecting Middle Eastern oil from Russian or Chinese incursion, but neither commander-in-chief involved has ever really explained.

We weren't there because we were wanted, we were there in the beginning because of the Taliban refusing to allow us to come in and search for OBL, and we needed to take the Taliban out of power.

We stayed for many reasons; one being again, the Taliban. There is a thought, especially after what happened in WWI, that if someone takes out a government entity, it is their responsibility to replace that entity, and not leave the country floundering without leadership.

And yes, we stayed, even after OBL went to Pakistan, because we needed a base in the area to search for OBL. I have long believed that had we been able to get into Pakistan, this whole thing would've been long gone. But we didn't push going into Pakistan, because of the India/Pakistan issues (both being allies, it was a dicey situation).

And on. Yes, there are some geopolitical politics occurring, and some may involve energy and oil preservation. If you look at what Georgia just went through, with Shakesvilli (sp) and the pipeline and the uprising, it becomes more and more clear what sort of issues are going on over there.

However, you can't ignore the other aspects, namely the political issues and the need to handle the Taliban (who protected OBL and AQ for a long time) and other political party issues.

As with anything, it's a rather tangled, intertwined, involved (usually over many decades) situation, reminiscent of the phrase "can of worms".

I stand with my previous statement; even knowing the potential repercussions, bring our troops home. Home now.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[songline]

BBM. He may have volunteered to go back. I know a medic w/ terrible PTSD who has repeatedly volunteered for additional tours.

I know that there are military families for many generations.they are so Proud to serve our country.

But the military should be responsible to examine these poor guys
and see when they should or should NOT be sent, and especially send again and again.
sorry volunteer or otherwise... Anyone with any accountability, responsibility, compassion,
ethics would not have sent him regardless to Volunteering.

That is my firm belief.

 

[essies]

Soldier accused in Afghan killings on his way to Kansas base
Seattle (CNN) -- The attorney for an American soldier accused of killing 16 Afghans raised issues of stress and multiple deployments Friday that hinted at a possible defense strategy.
Even as John Henry Browne spoke, his client was on his way to Fort Leavenworth, Kansas.
But he said he was wary of why the soldier was deployed to Afghanistan after three tours of Iraq left him with mental and physical injury.

The soldier lost part of a foot in Iraq and suffered a traumatic brain injury. Browne said the screening for the concussion was minimal. The soldier was told that his brigade would not deploy again but that changed suddenly and he arrived at the base in Kandahar province not too long ago.

"I am confused why they would send him back to Afghanistan," Browne said. "There was no 'maybe he shouldn't go' discussion."
In describing his latest client, Browne painted a picture of a decorated, career soldier who joined the military after the 2001 terrorist attacks and has spent all his Army life at Joint Base Lewis-McChord near Tacoma, Washington. Browne called him a devoted husband and father to his two young children who never made any derogatory remarks about Muslims or Afghans.
Browne said he was offended by media reports that marital discord played a role in the events that unfolded in Kandahar province villages near the small combat outpost where the soldier was stationed. He said those reports were "nonsense."
more at-
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/16/world/asia/afghanistan-shooting-soldier/

 

[essies]

In Afghan killings case, questions over alcohol

KABUL, AFGHANISTAN -- The U.S. military bans alcohol for its troops in Afghanistan, but that doesn't stop some soldiers from having a bottle or two stowed away in their gear - a fact highlighted by investigators probe into whether alcohol played a role when a U.S. sergeant allegedly carried out a killing spree that left 16 Afghans dead.

U.S. investigators have determined that the suspect had been drinking alcohol prior to leaving the base the night of the attack, a senior U.S. defense official said Friday. How much of a role alcohol played in the attack is still under investigation, said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity because charges have not yet been filed.

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/03/16/3495187/in-afghan-killings-case-questions.html#storylink=cpy

 

[essies]

Afghanistan to U.S.: get out of villages
KABUL — The Taliban broke off contacts over peace talks with Washington on Thursday and the Afghan President demanded U.S. troops leave village outposts, just days after an American soldier massacred 16 villagers.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai also called for a transition of the nation’s security from NATO control to the Afghan government in 2013 rather than the previous deadline of 2014, after meeting visiting U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta.
NATO, meanwhile, vowed to stick to its plan to finish handing Afghans control of security nationwide by the end of 2014.

Mr. Panetta earlier told reporters after his Karzai talks that he was “confident” both sides could work out a treaty allowing a U.S. military presence in the country beyond 2014.:banghead:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/15/afghanistan-to-u-s-get-out-of-villages/

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Soldier accused in Afghan killings on his way to Kansas base
Seattle (CNN) -- The attorney for an American soldier accused of killing 16 Afghans raised issues of stress and multiple deployments Friday that hinted at a possible defense strategy.
Even as John Henry Browne spoke, his client was on his way to Fort Leavenworth, Kansas.
But he said he was wary of why the soldier was deployed to Afghanistan after three tours of Iraq left him with mental and physical injury.

The soldier lost part of a foot in Iraq and suffered a traumatic brain injury. Browne said the screening for the concussion was minimal. The soldier was told that his brigade would not deploy again but that changed suddenly and he arrived at the base in Kandahar province not too long ago.

"I am confused why they would send him back to Afghanistan," Browne said. "There was no 'maybe he shouldn't go' discussion."
In describing his latest client, Browne painted a picture of a decorated, career soldier who joined the military after the 2001 terrorist attacks and has spent all his Army life at Joint Base Lewis-McChord near Tacoma, Washington. Browne called him a devoted husband and father to his two young children who never made any derogatory remarks about Muslims or Afghans.
Browne said he was offended by media reports that marital discord played a role in the events that unfolded in Kandahar province villages near the small combat outpost where the soldier was stationed. He said those reports were "nonsense."
more at-
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/16/world/asia/afghanistan-shooting-soldier/

I can't believe he was sent back into combat missing part of his foot. I have never heard of that before.