AL AL - J.B. Beasley, 17, & Tracie Hawlett, 17, Ozark, 31 July 1999 #1

[killarney rose]

Now; I think you went from being offended to being downright ridiculous. As you can see, I replied to you with an apology. If you're still offended that's not on me anymore. I even went back and edited my original comment. So that it isn't still seeming to pass judgement. But that's ok. I've already said my piece. I think we should turn our attentions back to J.B. and Tracy, like YOU originally said.

There are scarry backwoods people everywhere.


I'm sorry- lets shake and be friends...My OP double posted- saw that so deleted one, thought I deleted both:waitasec:- reposted...sigh...I'm multitasking- can we start over and move on?

 

[killarney rose]

I read in an article somewhere that the mud on the shoes were traced back to the "sandy creek" area. Did you find that accessible?Oh, Great Work!! BTW it gives us a way better visual than just maps.

I didn't even think about that. I was trying to remember so many things. I don't know where it is.

 

[jenstar]

There are scarry backwoods people everywhere.


I'm sorry- lets shake and be friends...My OP double posted- saw that so deleted one, thought I deleted both:waitasec:- reposted...sigh...I'm multitasking- can we start over and move on?

Of course. Amen and Thank You.

 

[LucyOso]

Actually I back that up 100%. I know that where my mom lives in Eastern KY, we have a "drive thru" carryout place. You basically flash your ID and if they recognize you, they don't even check the DOB.
Is there a drive thru liquor store in the area?
That's a possible place where the girls would have been. And people would be reluctant to talk because they sold alcohol to underage girls.

It is also possible they did not let her by cigs or beer. She gets carded and throws the ID on the dash in frustration (did they ever fingerprint her ID?). Thus, the girls found someone to do it for them. That someone could have been someone known or not. I am not by any means suggesting they partied and drank, but, kids are kids. LOL.

 

[shadowangel]

A quick observation/question from the pics (thanks much for those, KR..) Has the Parks Dept always used white trucks? Do the Parks employees typically (or occasionally) take the trucks home?

 

[Dixie811]

It is also possible they did not let her by cigs or beer. She gets carded and throws the ID on the dash in frustration (did they ever fingerprint her ID?). Thus, the girls found someone to do it for them. That someone could have been someone known or not. I am not by any means suggesting they partied and drank, but, kids are kids. LOL.

When I was JB & Tracie's age my friends and I dabbled in a little partying and older men (that we knew) did occasionally purchase beer for us. I'm ashamed to say it now! Anyway, we were all good kids.. great grades, never got into much trouble.

BUT my thought here is that we would never have drank alcohol when we were expected to be home shortly thereafter. I don't think JB and Tracie would expect to get away with drinking when they had to drive home shortly and be around their parents. Also, there was no talk of alcohol in the car... so if they did manage to obtain alcohol, that would suggest the killer took it. (Since as far as we know, the girls never made it to the field party).

I see the reasoning behind these suggestions of JB and Tracie trying to obtain alcohol (I thought of a drive-thru liquor store as well) but to me, it just doesn't fit. It's possible, though!

 

[LucyOso]

When I was JB & Tracie's age my friends and I dabbled in a little partying and older men (that we knew) did occasionally purchase beer for us. I'm ashamed to say it now! Anyway, we were all good kids.. great grades, never got into much trouble.

BUT my thought here is that we would never have drank alcohol when we were expected to be home shortly thereafter. I don't think JB and Tracie would expect to get away with drinking when they had to drive home shortly and be around their parents. Also, there was no talk of alcohol in the car... so if they did manage to obtain alcohol, that would suggest the killer took it. (Since as far as we know, the girls never made it to the field party).

I see the reasoning behind these suggestions of JB and Tracie trying to obtain alcohol (I thought of a drive-thru liquor store as well) but to me, it just doesn't fit. It's possible, though!

Thanks for the feedback. I was thinking more along the lines of how the evening started...trying to get wine coolers for the party or something. The reason why I brought it up, is we did the same thing as kids, trying to find someone to score beer, wine coolers, or cigs. And usually it was older men who bought it. Anyway, just trying to think of what could have realistically happened.

Also...A bit off topic. But...I was looking at cases where two young teens/women were killed or disappeared together...Just wondering if this perp targets two at a time.

Candy Belt and Gloria Ross were killed in 1994 (not sure about this one though)

Diana Shawcroft and Jennifer Lueth were killed in 1996 (very similar situation)

Julianne Marie Williams and Laura "Lollie" Winans were killed in 1996

Lauria Jaylene Bible and Ashley Renae Freeman disappeared in 1999

Ideas?

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Just an observation and not being relevant perhaps.
Looking at the memorial photos, and than the crime scene photo where the detectives are looking into the trunk.........I notice the car was not parked sideways when left there. But end on end.....The front was facing the woods, and the trunk facing the road...The person driving the vehicle just turned in and parked it. As if parking in a parking space.

As far as leaving them in the trunk, He may had decided the best place for a temporary burial, or hiding place was the trunk. Instead of dragging and trying to hide them here or there which would have taken time, he just placed them in the trunk and shot them, and used the convenience of the trunk as being a temporary hiding place for a few hours. Could indicate he was planning on taking the vehicle back to an area where his vehicle was parked. And killing and leaving the girls in the trunk was the simplest solution. keeping in control of the all situation until getting back and leaving the car and leaving in his vehicle.

I believe for now, the girls were spotted alone probably at the bp when they made there call. I am sure both girls were out of the car when the phone call was made. And the killer seen there were no men with them. And the store was closed and dark. He may have followed them from there if they did not stop anywhere else.

Any locals know if that time there were construction going on the local highway there, or any road construction....Here in Indiana during summer highway construction goes on all night. And there are vehicles with LEO lights on certain vehicles to get traffic to slow down around these sites.......We also have what is called Hooiser helpers which are trucks vans, that pull over to help strangede moterists, and these vehicles also have leo lights that are acturally police lights i believe to get traffice to slow down.

Also the visual aids presented here on this case are some of the most outstanding i have seen on a cold case. The presentation of this case here by members is nothing sort but spectacular. And wanted to let you know that.

 

[killarney rose]

A quick observation/question from the pics (thanks much for those, KR..) Has the Parks Dept always used white trucks? Do the Parks employees typically (or occasionally) take the trucks home?

I don't know. In other localities around here they have a city yard of sorts where the vehicles are left at night. But I couldn't say for Ozark. I can rmember my uncle (in FL) bringing his city truck home on weekends he would be on call.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Kemberly Lorin Ramer

Opp, Alabama is about 45 miles southwest of Ozark. On the night of August 15, 1997, 17-year-old Kemberly Ramer vanished from her home in Opp.

Though MSM reports are a total mess when it comes to reports of that night's timeline, it is known that Kemberly attended a softball game that evening, then spent time at her boyfriend's house with her boyfriend and other friends, then drove the five minutes home. An online post by Kemberly's mother states that Kemberly would have been alone in the house at the time.

Kemberly's car was found in the driveway and there was possible evidence of a struggle in her bedroom. Her personal belongings were left behind, including her glasses, contacts, jewelry, and money. Foul play is suspected. Her boyfriend and all family members have been ruled out as suspects.

Kemberly has never been found.

***​

Similarities to the Beasley-Hawlett case:

• Both crimes took place in SE Alabama.
• Both crimes took place in August.
• All three victims were 17 years old.
• All three victims had dark hair.
• All three victims had been driving shortly before the crimes were committed.
• All three victims were about to start their senior years of high school.
• Some MSM timelines state 11:00 p.m., 11:45 p.m., and 12:00 midnight as key times in the Ramer case. Beasley and Hawlett were last seen alive at 11:30 p.m.
• The victims' valuables and belongings were left behind and untouched in both cases, leading to the belief that robbery was not a motive.
• The victims in both cases were last seen alive getting into their vehicles and driving away.
• In the Ramer case, two tips were called in directing LE to the location of Kemberly's remains, leading to a search of a rural lake on Kemberly's birthday. J.B. Beasley was murdered on her birthday.

Sources
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/ramer_kemberly.html
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-543872

WS Thread: AL AL - Kemberly Ramer, 17, Opp, 15 Aug 1997 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

This reminded me of TARA GRINDSTEAD in Georgia. In 05 I believe it was.

 

[LucyOso]

Just an observation and not being relevant perhaps.
Looking at the memorial photos, and than the crime scene photo where the detectives are looking into the trunk.........I notice the car was not parked sideways when left there. But end on end.....The front was facing the woods, and the trunk facing the road...The person driving the vehicle just turned in and parked it. As if parking in a parking space.

As far as leaving them in the trunk, He may had decided the best place for a temporary burial, or hiding place was the trunk. Instead of dragging and trying to hide them here or there which would have taken time, he just placed them in the trunk and shot them, and used the convenience of the trunk as being a temporary hiding place for a few hours. Could indicate he was planning on taking the vehicle back to an area where his vehicle was parked. And killing and leaving the girls in the trunk was the simplest solution. keeping in control of the all situation until getting back and leaving the car and leaving in his vehicle.

I believe for now, the girls were spotted alone probably at the bp when they made there call. I am sure both girls were out of the car when the phone call was made. And the killer seen there were no men with them. And the store was closed and dark. He may have followed them from there if they did not stop anywhere else.

Any locals know if that time there were construction going on the local highway there, or any road construction....Here in Indiana during summer highway construction goes on all night. And there are vehicles with LEO lights on certain vehicles to get traffic to slow down around these sites.......We also have what is called Hooiser helpers which are trucks vans, that pull over to help strangede moterists, and these vehicles also have leo lights that are acturally police lights i believe to get traffice to slow down.

Also the visual aids presented here on this case are some of the most outstanding i have seen on a cold case. The presentation of this case here by members is nothing sort but spectacular. And wanted to let you know that.

Where do I view the crime scene photos? Thanks!

 

[killarney rose]

Just an observation and not being relevant perhaps.
Looking at the memorial photos, and than the crime scene photo where the detectives are looking into the trunk.........I notice the car was not parked sideways when left there. But end on end.....The front was facing the woods, and the trunk facing the road...The person driving the vehicle just turned in and parked it. As if parking in a parking space.

As far as leaving them in the trunk, He may had decided the best place for a temporary burial, or hiding place was the trunk. Instead of dragging and trying to hide them here or there which would have taken time, he just placed them in the trunk and shot them, and used the convenience of the trunk as being a temporary hiding place for a few hours. Could indicate he was planning on taking the vehicle back to an area where his vehicle was parked. And killing and leaving the girls in the trunk was the simplest solution. keeping in control of the all situation until getting back and leaving the car and leaving in his vehicle.

I believe for now, the girls were spotted alone probably at the bp when they made there call. I am sure both girls were out of the car when the phone call was made. And the killer seen there were no men with them. And the store was closed and dark. He may have followed them from there if they did not stop anywhere else.

Any locals know if that time there were construction going on the local highway there, or any road construction....Here in Indiana during summer highway construction goes on all night. And there are vehicles with LEO lights on certain vehicles to get traffic to slow down around these sites.......We also have what is called Hooiser helpers which are trucks vans, that pull over to help strangede moterists, and these vehicles also have leo lights that are acturally police lights i believe to get traffice to slow down.

Also the visual aids presented here on this case are some of the most outstanding i have seen on a cold case. The presentation of this case here by members is nothing sort but spectacular. And wanted to let you know that.

This whole area is more of a rural semi-rural ...so no night time construction around here. I have seen it in the bigger towns at times, but not here.

This is the former Big/Little store. I took this photo coming into town from Hwy 27 exactly as the girls would have if they had been lost and arrived in Ozark via 27. The store is exactly the same except for new paint and signage.

 

[gettingolder74]

I have just read the stories here and my heart aches for everyone. It saddens me that crimes like these happen to our loved ones. May there always be love and peace for all. My prayers will be deadicated to these families this evening. Thank you for sharing.

 

[killarney rose]

There are so many places the killer could have left the car and it would have been a long time before it and the girls were found. Yet he left it right in town- in an out of the way place-off the beaten path. A place I believe the killer is familiar with. A place about 2-3 blocks from the Big/ Little, and only another couple blocks from Depot Ln, a suspected murder site. Why? So he could easily walk home?

ETA- In the picture of the B/L store above, there is a light colored vehicle in the distance. That is approximately where Depot Ln turns off to the right. And the suspected site(if I am correct) is only a block off Broad St.(27)

 

[pinkie60]

another angle i just thought about, maybe J.B. or Tracie or both had witnessed a crime, theft, drugs, assault and were killed to prevent them from talking. so sorry for family and friends.

 

[DimeDetective]

Photo File #1:
The Big/Little Store

_____

​

The Big/Little Store as it looks today. As KR said, other than new paint and signage, the store looks exactly as it did in 1999:

The pay phone used by Tracie on the night of July 31, 1999:

This would've been exactly what Tracie saw if she looked out toward Broad Street/Hwy 27 while on the phone with her mother that night. Notice the proximity of the nearest gas pump — this is where the white pickup truck would have been parked:

And this is a view of the pay phone from exactly where the white pickup was parked at the gas pump nearest the store:

A front view of the store itself. Notice the pay phone to the far right:

 

[LR1]

I was looking through Houston County/Dothan Sexual Offenders and sooo many are in there for rape with a 15 year old. None of them had "violent" offences, (at least the one's I though would fit the profile.)

Did you happen to check out the Ozark offenders and spot the one that was convicted of 2nd degree rape in Dale county (Ozark) back in 1995 and has a 1999 Chevy S-10 and lives on the same road barrentine lived on back in 99 very near the b/l store?

I cant tell from the page the length of his sentence however neither can I place him as living their in 99 so probably another dead end.

Does anyone happen to know when Al. started requiring offenders to register?
I cant find that for some reason.

 

[LR1]

Just wanted to give killarney rose and DimeDetective an A+ for the time and effort put into getting those pictures and the case itself, before I catch up on some reading and try to absorb it all. We have a good foundation for this case now here on WS whether anything comes from it or not. Its here to be built upon from us and the people who might come in the future.

 

[DimeDetective]

Photo File #2:
Depot Lane

_____


​

The right turn onto Depot Lane is 0.3 miles — a 29-second drive, according to Google Maps — from the Big/Little Store. We know J.B. and Tracie turned right onto Broad Street and headed west, toward this turn. Depot Lane is one of two potential murder sites the authorities have searched multiple times:

Depot Lane is a very narrow, roughly-paved alleyway:

Driving down Depot Lane, one quickly spots the point where it intersects with Jones Street, marked by the sign and the house straight ahead. Depot Lane dead-ends approximately 250 feet beyond this intersection:

The Depot Lane/Jones Street intersection. At first glance the house straight ahead appeared abandoned, but note the truck parked in the driveway far right:

An abandoned building to your left as you approach the Depot Lane/Jones Street intersection:

Though it was a beautiful and sunny day, the sight of this abandoned building gave me a sense of foreboding:

Depot Lane meets Jones Street. MSM reports stated that LE conducted multiple searches for evidence of murder near this intersection:

Looking down Jones Street toward Depot Lane and the abandoned building:

A view of the abandoned building and Depot Lane from Jones Street:

Driving back toward Broad Street/Hwy 27 on Depot Lane:

 

[Claudette]

It's just SO WEIRD that whatever happened, happened as they were heading home. I just can't wrap my mind around it. Whatever it was it was bizarre chance. I remember a few times when I was that age, drinking, and I told my parents I would be home soon. I always was home when I said I was. I of course didn't know these girls but I would assume it was the same thing with them.

So between the call of "be home in a few" and when they were found...somehow they came across their killer and for whatever reason got their pants wet and dirty.

The few scenarios I can think of:

- They were driving home and FINALLY found the place to get them to the party location, decide to pull in since the whole night revolved around getting there and:
- there were a few people there, everyone except the killer left (which wouldn't make sense because those that left would pick him out)
- it was actually the wrong place and they came across the killer

- passed someone they know, turned around to meet, for whatever reason he eventually kills them

- it was the white truck guy, which would make it a sex crime and just random bad luck.


Those are the only plausible scenarios I can come up with. MOO the killer is not a serial killer and this was sudden or a crime of passion.