AL AL - J.B. Beasley, 17, & Tracie Hawlett, 17, Ozark, 31 July 1999 #2

[TooCurious]

I'm not willing to guarantee that they went there on purpose. What I do know is I have been told by multiple people who knew JB and Tracey that they would not have gotten lost in Ozark. I have also been told by reliable sources that they knew people in Ozark. Therefore it is logical to conclude they may have gone there intentionally or a party or to meet someone.

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I agree that is logical but we can not say that is factual. The point I am making is in a post lamenting false "facts", another false fact was presented. I do not think it is a stretch for JB to be disoriented if she came into town from the back way at night. I would say that just about everyone that ever goes to Ozark uses 231 and by using the short cut that Bookie told them, she was unfamiliar with route and where it came into town. Ozark is not a big town of course but at night, coming in from a wrong direction it isn't a stretch IMO.
I brought this up before but again, I think it is very possible that while driving from the store to 231 they could have mistakenly took BUSINESS 231. That would have took them right by the hospital and put them in very close proximity to Herring. My phone won't let me share the pic for some reason but there is a road sign that they would have passed directing them to 231. Basically it reads, Business (small sign on top), just under it a larger South 231 sign. That really would put them in the area of one party, the hospital, Herring Ave, South of the store, and close to the relatives of the guy in jail in Montgomery. Sorry the specifics of which party and the inmate escape me for now.

 

[easongt]

It's my understanding that they knew people who lived in that immediate vicinity of Ozark. Or at least knew people that were in that vicinity where the vehicle was found. It is possible for any teenage girl in an age before smartphones and GPS to get lost and turned around at night.

Please keep in mind that until recently I believed this was a totally random crime. I no longer believe that is probable also possible. I think they went to Ozark for a specific reason. I think they went there to meet someone or friends or for a get together. I think they possibly told the mother in the phone call that they were lost in an effort to buy a little time for coming home late. That's not that uncommon, even my kids do that LOL.

The most important evidence although circumstantial, is where the vehicle was left. I've asked myself hundreds of times while the vehicle would be left in that spot. What benefit did the killer or Killers have by leaving it there? Especially since it is almost 100% confirmed they were not killed at that location.

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[TooCurious]

It's my understanding that they knew people who lived in that immediate vicinity of Ozark. Or at least knew people that were in that vicinity where the vehicle was found. It is possible for any teenage girl in an age before smartphones and GPS to get lost and turned around at night.

Please keep in mind that until recently I believed this was a totally random crime. I no longer believe that is probable also possible. I think they went to Ozark for a specific reason. I think they went there to meet someone or friends or for a get together. I think they possibly told the mother in the phone call that they were lost in an effort to buy a little time for coming home late. That's not that uncommon, even my kids do that LOL.

The most important evidence although circumstantial, is where the vehicle was left. I've asked myself hundreds of times while the vehicle would be left in that spot. What benefit did the killer or Killers have by leaving it there? Especially since it is almost 100% confirmed they were not killed at that location.


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The only problem with thinking they were not lost and Tracie was just buying time is the conversation JB had at the store asking for directions. It is possible of course they were not asking how to get home but asking for 231 so JB could get her bearings and find wherever she was wanting to go. The specific words she used would be great to know but I think the lady is paraphrasing and/or projecting what she thinks JB was asking.
Convience is the sole motivator for the car location I think. Finding out who or why it was convenient is the hard part. I do not think it was strategic, strategic would have been bottom of a lake, burned, deep in the woods, etc..

I think I have read almost everything pertaining to this case I either it escapes my memory or I have never seen definitive evidence that says they were not killed on location. Assaulted at a different location I believe has been proven but not where they were killed.

 

[easongt]

The only problem with thinking they were not lost and Tracie was just buying time is the conversation JB had at the store asking for directions. It is possible of course they were not asking how to get home but asking for 231 so JB could get her bearings and find wherever she was wanting to go. The specific words she used would be great to know but I think the lady is paraphrasing and/or projecting what she thinks JB was asking.
Convience is the sole motivator for the car location I think. Finding out who or why it was convenient is the hard part. I do not think it was strategic, strategic would have been bottom of a lake, burned, deep in the woods, etc..

I think I have read almost everything pertaining to this case I either it escapes my memory or I have never seen definitive evidence that says they were not killed on location. Assaulted at a different location I believe has been proven but not where they were killed.

I definitely have heard and read that there were blood drip patterns from the trunk consistent with the vehicle being in motion. Obviously they could have been killed there, driven around and then dropped at that same point although I think that would be unlikely.

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[TooCurious]

I definitely have heard and read that there were blood drip patterns from the trunk consistent with the vehicle being in motion. Obviously they could have been killed there, driven around and then dropped at that same point although I think that would be unlikely.

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The "drip", that indicates that they were shot in the car and the bullet passed through the trunk. It is just sheet metal so no biggie there, but if they were shot on location then slugs should have been recovered. If not then there should or could have been dripping from the trunk dependant on where the girls were positioned when shot. I am not familiar with trunk of a 1993 929, but if was flat then there should have been some dripping. Of it was offset with a depression and girls were shot higher up then it would have pooled in bottom, no drip. If there was a drip from bullet passing through, then why did police sit back for 6 hours and let the trunk of a car belonging to two missing girls drip blood? We have heard about the (spent or unspent) casing on the leg, I can't recall anyone ever mentioning the slugs being recovered.

 

[TooCurious]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...HU2nA9qZ8cmyORB7A&sig2=tezQ7tK6Imz_tBuUjHY1HA

Skip to the 7:30 mark for trunk overview.

 

[TedMac]

The "drip", that indicates that they were shot in the car and the bullet passed through the trunk. It is just sheet metal so no biggie there, but if they were shot on location then slugs should have been recovered. If not then there should or could have been dripping from the trunk dependant on where the girls were positioned when shot. I am not familiar with trunk of a 1993 929, but if was flat then there should have been some dripping. Of it was offset with a depression and girls were shot higher up then it would have pooled in bottom, no drip. If there was a drip from bullet passing through, then why did police sit back for 6 hours and let the trunk of a car belonging to two missing girls drip blood? We have heard about the (spent or unspent) casing on the leg, I can't recall anyone ever mentioning the slugs being recovered.

LE was certain they were shot elsewhere and the car was driven with the girl's bodies in the trunk. They indicated the manner in which the blood was on the undercarriage would have required the the vehicle to be moving. Lets not forget that both girls pants were wet from the knee down and contained thorns in them. Also, their shoes were muddy. They would have to either run through a creek or stream attempting to escape their captor or they were marched through a stream at gunpoint. I don't believe they got wet or the thorns in their clothes on Herring Ave. They were abducted in Ozark and driven to the kill location that was near some type of a stream.

 

[killarney rose]

There is a creek on Herring Ave inbetween where the car was found and the apartments north of where the car was found. iIRC, it flows under Herring through a culvert. But don't hold me to that, it's been a While since I've been there. It's also grown up with lots of brush and woods on both sides of Herring St. It hasn't been discussed that the girls got wet there, but I'm just Reminding y'all about this creek.

 

[CoolJ]

Random thoughts after reading through last couple of pages:

-Lets not forget the empty gas tank. This murder could have taken place out of state or at least in a town reasonably far away from Ozark.

-That damned license on the dash. It was much more than just a rumor and that piece of info certainly didn't originate on these threads. That was information reported by media since very early on. I had thought Spivey was quoted on it somewhere but have been unable to find it. Apparently the family has only been told recently that the license wasnt found there.... that in itself is very interesting and suspicious if you ask me

- my feelings are that the phone call at the BL store was to buy time on the curfew. Common teenage trick... call parents at curfew time ... say your running a little late... parents feel more comfy and fall asleep

- What do the Steven Avery case and West Memphis 3 have in common with this case?? Small town LE agencies using a Low IQ/ Mentally Challenged person to obtain a coerced confession to make a case go away..... My opinion... they tried it with JB and it almost worked until that damned DNA came back.... There are many other similar examples of of coerced confessions .... have a look around. It is a pattern

- These murders were an execution.... organized crime style... but what would two teenage girls know or have witnessed to get in the middle of that?? I suppose there are many possibilities.... I know HCR report is an unreliable source but I cant help but think there are bits of truth in there.... after all someone took the time to write out those investigative notes and those whistleblowers were speaking for a reason... think about it

- this case has cover-up and corruption written all over it... does not mean a LEO necessarily committed these murders but are they trying to protect someone or protect a bigger story from being told?

ETA -
An unanswered question I have never been able to find.... Where was JB living? Where did she sleep at night? Who was responsible for her that weekend?

Also..... where is dime detective?

 

[easongt]

Random thoughts after reading through last couple of pages:

-Lets not forget the empty gas tank. This murder could have taken place out of state or at least in a town reasonably far away from Ozark.

-That damned license on the dash. It was much more than just a rumor and that piece of info certainly didn't originate on these threads. That was information reported by media since very early on. I had thought Spivey was quoted on it somewhere but have been unable to find it. Apparently the family has only been told recently that the license wasnt found there.... that in itself is very interesting and suspicious if you ask me

- my feelings are that the phone call at the BL store was to buy time on the curfew. Common teenage trick... call parents at curfew time ... say your running a little late... parents feel more comfy and fall asleep

- What do the Steven Avery case and West Memphis 3 have in common with this case?? Small town LE agencies using a Low IQ/ Mentally Challenged person to obtain a coerced confession to make a case go away..... My opinion... they tried it with JB and it almost worked until that damned DNA came back.... There are many other similar examples of of coerced confessions .... have a look around. It is a pattern

- These murders were an execution.... organized crime style... but what would two teenage girls know or have witnessed to get in the middle of that?? I suppose there are many possibilities.... I know HCR report is an unreliable source but I cant help but think there are bits of truth in there.... after all someone took the time to write out those investigative notes and those whistleblowers were speaking for a reason... think about it

- this case has cover-up and corruption written all over it... does not mean a LEO necessarily committed these murders but are they trying to protect someone or protect a bigger story from being told?

Even though I may not agree 100%, I can't dispute some of your theories. They may very well have been executed so to speak and it may have been premeditated, but I don't believe it was law enforcement or anyone professional. It was however someone with an extremely high level of luck. That luck may run out one day we'll have to wait and see.

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[CoolJ]

Even though I may not agree 100%, I can't dispute some of your theories. They may very well have been executed so to speak and it may have been premeditated, but I don't believe it was law enforcement or anyone professional. It was however someone with an extremely high level of luck. That luck may run out one day we'll have to wait and see.

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It was a bad guy. We can agree on that. Bad guys can also be in law enforcement. But like I said way back, I think it is more likely it was someone trying to make it look like it was LE..... but then we get this tidbit of info that the license wasn't actually found on the dash which is what has been reported since the beginning.... that is strange.... very strange

Also, professional only means they were paid to do it... doesnt mean they are experienced or good at it...... but then again they have gotten away with it for almost 17 yrs.... I don't believe in luck.... not to that extent. You need help to be that lucky.. JMO

 

[somequestions]

I think you have to look at the simple explanation first in the case of J.B. Beasley and Tracie Hawlett. Tracie told her mom on the phone they had gotten lost and were on their way home. Why would she lie? Why would she even call and give a time frame for being home? According to that Haunting Evidence program, I thought her mother did not get home until much later on or did not check on her being there until later on. But I could be mistaken. I have not watched the Haunting Evidence episode in a while.

 

[Bulldog23]

I think you have to look at the simple explanation first in the case of J.B. Beasley and Tracie Hawlett. Tracie told her mom on the phone they had gotten lost and were on their way home. Why would she lie? Why would she even call and give a time frame for being home? According to that Haunting Evidence program, I thought her mother did not get home until much later on or did not check on her being there until later on. But I could be mistaken. I have not watched the Haunting Evidence episode in a while.

I had a friend in high school that always got me into weird situations. Every time I would go anywhere with him, we would seem to end up around sketchy folks or in places I didn't feel comfortable. I never mentioned it to my parents because he was my friend, and I felt a sense of loyalty to him. I knew my parents wouldn't approve, so when I told them things, I withheld details that would cause them to disapprove of my friend and the situations in which we found ourselves. I'm not saying that the situation is the same (or that JB got Tracie into a bad situation; the only responsible is the killer) , but I can understand if Tracie fudged the truth to keep the waters calm with her parents. In an interview with Carol Roberts, Tracie's mom, she stated that she had worked a late shift and after receiving the call from Tracie, she fell asleep and didn't realize they were missing until about 5:00 that Sunday morning. She also said there was no distress in Tracie's voice, so at that time things must have seemed OK to the girls.

 

[TedMac]

According to Carol Roberts (Tracie's mom), Tracie had a 11:30 pm curfew and Carol said that Tracie was never late. The call from the Big/Little Store was made very close to that time. So, if effect, they were already late. I don't think they were necessarily being devious. I believe they were simply running behind and probably had gotten lost earlier trying to find the Field Party or wherever else they may have been hoping to go. There was a substantiated report that they had hoped to get together with 2 boys somewhere besides the field party, but those plans never materialized. Tracie's mom normally waited up for her and the call was probably made to assure her mom she was OK and on the way home.

Her mother had worked a double-shift at her job and had fell asleep at home. It has never been said, but she probably went to bed immediately after the phone call from Tracie and didn't wake up until 5 am on Sunday.

 

[TedMac]

Random thoughts after reading through last couple of pages:

-Lets not forget the empty gas tank. This murder could have taken place out of state or at least in a town reasonably far away from Ozark.

-That damned license on the dash. It was much more than just a rumor and that piece of info certainly didn't originate on these threads. That was information reported by media since very early on. I had thought Spivey was quoted on it somewhere but have been unable to find it. Apparently the family has only been told recently that the license wasnt found there.... that in itself is very interesting and suspicious if you ask me

- my feelings are that the phone call at the BL store was to buy time on the curfew. Common teenage trick... call parents at curfew time ... say your running a little late... parents feel more comfy and fall asleep

- What do the Steven Avery case and West Memphis 3 have in common with this case?? Small town LE agencies using a Low IQ/ Mentally Challenged person to obtain a coerced confession to make a case go away..... My opinion... they tried it with JB and it almost worked until that damned DNA came back.... There are many other similar examples of of coerced confessions .... have a look around. It is a pattern

- These murders were an execution.... organized crime style... but what would two teenage girls know or have witnessed to get in the middle of that?? I suppose there are many possibilities.... I know HCR report is an unreliable source but I cant help but think there are bits of truth in there.... after all someone took the time to write out those investigative notes and those whistleblowers were speaking for a reason... think about it

- this case has cover-up and corruption written all over it... does not mean a LEO necessarily committed these murders but are they trying to protect someone or protect a bigger story from being told?

ETA -
An unanswered question I have never been able to find.... Where was JB living? Where did she sleep at night? Who was responsible for her that weekend?

Also..... where is dime detective?

Very good post!

[BApparently the family has only been told recently that the license wasnt found there.... that in itself is very interesting and suspicious if you ask me][/B] Agreed. It is suspicious and it doesn't make any sense that LE would admit that almost 17 years after the murders.

What do the Steven Avery case and West Memphis 3 have in common with this case?? Small town LE agencies using a Low IQ/ Mentally Challenged person to obtain a coerced confession to make a case go away..... My opinion... they tried it with JB and it almost worked until that damned DNA came back.... There are many other similar examples of of coerced confessions .... have a look around. It is a pattern Barrentine was a strange duck. I don't think he killed the girls, but he did see something and did know something about the murders. He was able identify their clothing, so he did see them very soon before their deaths. I believe there is a little truth in most false stories. While he never admitted to killing the girls, he said he saw them killed by a guy covered in tattoos whom he gave a ride to. He also claimed a neighbor of his killed them, but it turned out the neighbor had an alibi. He said the girls were combative and one of them escaped only to be re-captured. Then, in the end, he claimed he never saw anything and had made all of his stories up.

this case has cover-up and corruption written all over it... does not mean a LEO necessarily committed these murders but are they trying to protect someone or protect a bigger story from being told? It is certainly possible, but I don't believe there was any cover-up. While Ozark PD was the lead agency, there were 12 LE agencies involved in the investigation including the FBI and AL Bureau of Investigation. I think if any cover-up was involved, one of other agencies would have "uncovered it."

An unanswered question I have never been able to find.... Where was JB living? Where did she sleep at night? Who was responsible for her that weekend? J.B. had been in the custody of her mother after her mother & step-dad's separation. However, things didn't workout and she removed from her mother's home by Social Services. She was placed in foster care and was living with her dance instructor. On the night of the murders, she was supposed to have spent the night with Tracie and they were to have gone to Church together on Sunday.

 

[TedMac]

Random thoughts after reading through last couple of pages:

-Lets not forget the empty gas tank. This murder could have taken place out of state or at least in a town reasonably far away from Ozark.

-That damned license on the dash. It was much more than just a rumor and that piece of info certainly didn't originate on these threads. That was information reported by media since very early on. I had thought Spivey was quoted on it somewhere but have been unable to find it. Apparently the family has only been told recently that the license wasnt found there.... that in itself is very interesting and suspicious if you ask me

- my feelings are that the phone call at the BL store was to buy time on the curfew. Common teenage trick... call parents at curfew time ... say your running a little late... parents feel more comfy and fall asleep

- What do the Steven Avery case and West Memphis 3 have in common with this case?? Small town LE agencies using a Low IQ/ Mentally Challenged person to obtain a coerced confession to make a case go away..... My opinion... they tried it with JB and it almost worked until that damned DNA came back.... There are many other similar examples of of coerced confessions .... have a look around. It is a pattern

- These murders were an execution.... organized crime style... but what would two teenage girls know or have witnessed to get in the middle of that?? I suppose there are many possibilities.... I know HCR report is an unreliable source but I cant help but think there are bits of truth in there.... after all someone took the time to write out those investigative notes and those whistleblowers were speaking for a reason... think about it

- this case has cover-up and corruption written all over it... does not mean a LEO necessarily committed these murders but are they trying to protect someone or protect a bigger story from being told?

ETA -
An unanswered question I have never been able to find.... Where was JB living? Where did she sleep at night? Who was responsible for her that weekend?

Also..... where is dime detective?

Very good post!

[BApparently the family has only been told recently that the license wasnt found there.... that in itself is very interesting and suspicious if you ask me][/B] Agreed. It is suspicious and it doesn't make any sense that LE would admit that almost 17 years after the murders.

What do the Steven Avery case and West Memphis 3 have in common with this case?? Small town LE agencies using a Low IQ/ Mentally Challenged person to obtain a coerced confession to make a case go away..... My opinion... they tried it with JB and it almost worked until that damned DNA came back.... There are many other similar examples of of coerced confessions .... have a look around. It is a pattern Barrentine was a strange duck. I don't think he killed the girls, but he did see something and did know something about the murders. He was able identify their clothing, so he did see them very soon before their deaths. I believe there is a little truth in most false stories. While he never admitted to killing the girls, he said he saw them killed by a guy covered in tattoos whom he gave a ride to. He also claimed a neighbor of his killed them, but it turned out the neighbor had an alibi. He said the girls were combative and one of them escaped only to be re-captured. Then, in the end, he claimed he never saw anything and had made all of his stories up.

this case has cover-up and corruption written all over it... does not mean a LEO necessarily committed these murders but are they trying to protect someone or protect a bigger story from being told? It is certainly possible, but I don't believe there was any cover-up. While Ozark PD was the lead agency, there were 12 LE agencies involved in the investigation including the FBI and AL Bureau of Investigation. I think if any cover-up was involved, one of other agencies would have "uncovered it."

An unanswered question I have never been able to find.... Where was JB living? Where did she sleep at night? Who was responsible for her that weekend? J.B. had been in the custody of her mother after her mother & step-dad's separation. However, things didn't workout and she removed from her mother's home by Social Services. She was placed in foster care and was living with her dance instructor. On the night of the murders, she was supposed to have spent the night with Tracie and they were to have gone to Church together on Sunday.

 

[CoolJ]

TedMac, Thanks for the reply my friend.
With regards to the coerced confession. I am just merely suggesting to keep that idea open as a possibility. He was able to identify the clothing... Or was he? This is how coerced confessions work. They plant the answers they want to hear from you in a "pre-interview" and then manipulate them out of you in the official interview. I am suspicious of this mostly because of Barrentines reported mental capacity. It is a common pattern I see in coerced confessions. Small town LE agency and a dimwit patsy. Happens a lot!

As for the corruption or cover up, it only takes a few crooked individuals to plant evidence, make evidence disappear , create a diversion etc... Doesn't have to be a grand conspiracy involving dozens of people. But again, I am only suggesting to keep this idea open as a possibility.

 

[somequestions]

I think you have to think simple in this case because I cannot figure out why they would ask the woman and her daughter at the gas station for directions if they were not lost?

This was my first post on Websleuths and in it I gave my explanation of what I think happened. I think they never made it to the main road they were supposed to turn on to get back to Dothan. I do not think they passed it either or they would have ran into another major route back or if they had turned around past the road they were supposed to turn on they might have run into it again and been able to make a right hand turn on the road back to Dothan, AL. getting a second chance to realize their mistake.

When you look at the map setup of Ozark, AL, if they did not make it to the main road, once they turn early the only thing they would be able to do would be to keep travelling on streets within the town eventually using a stair step pattern going south that would eventually get them to Matthews Ave. The reason I think this is a likely scenario is that when I got lost I ended up making circles ending up back in the same place.

Spatial disorientation is not uncommon. Once your mind settles on what you think or believe to be correct, it becomes very difficult to figure out where you went wrong. Basically what you see makes you believe that what you are doing is correct. It would be interesting to perform an experiment with individuals not from Alabama to see how they would approach the situation. The first thing you would need is the exact phrasing of the directions. I think I read that they were given directions based on the number of stoplights. So ask yourself some common sense questions. Maybe they confused stoplights for stop signs? Would that make a difference where they might turn? Maybe they focused on one aspect of the directions, the corner or street they were supposed to turn on. Would that make a difference? What would make them believe they had gone far enough and needed to turn around?

As for the near empty gas tank, I do not have an explanation other than maybe it was drained in an effort to fool others. Basically they might have seemed like tourists to the killer and since I believe he probably lives somewhere in the vicinity of where the car was found, he might have wanted it to appear that they spent a lot of time driving around. OR maybe he wanted it to appear that they did not stop for gas. OR because he knows he is going to kill them, he wants the gas tank to be as empty as possible when he shoots them in the trunk. That part always confounded me. If he misses, there is the possibility of an explosion. But how could he drain the gas tank and watch them too? The only way it seems likely is if that they were already in the trunk. I have never drained a gas tank. What do you have to do? Could it be done without the car on a lift?

I can only relate from experience of getting lost when I was 17 so long ago. The one thing I remember is that I knew I was making circles at the point where the directions made me feel like I made a mistake. In my case I kept ending up back at a college university. So once J.B. Beasley and Tracie Hawlett turn south, wherever that was, at the end of that POINT, when they cannot go any farther and realize they are not on the right path, is what they would remember, especially at night. That would be the point at which they would start questioning their reasoning and whether they followed the right directions.

So if you were a detective on this case I think what someone should do is go to the end of each street where they could have turned south. Then take a picture. Then ask yourself what makes sense. Women tend to look at directions based on landmarks. That is the only thing I can think of. And maybe it leads you in the right direction.

 

[easongt]

I have driven all the roads in that area. Whoever ditched the car was local or from the immediate area. Aerial shots don't convey it the same as being there.

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[CoolJ]

I have driven all the roads in that area. Whoever ditched the car was local or from the immediate area. Aerial shots don't convey it the same as being there.

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Agreed 100%
But I am not convinced the killers and whoever ditched the car are the same people. In fact my instincts tell me they likely aren't the same people.