Found Deceased AL - Kamille "Cupcake" McKinney, 3, kidnapped from party, Birmingham, 12 Oct 2019 *Arrests* #7

[PommyMommy]

BhamHousingAuthority on Twitter
Tom Brown Village residents: In honor of Kamille “Cupcake” McKinney, let’s talk about wellness, healing and safety. Join us for a Community Conversation on Friday.

2:07 PM - 29 Oct 2019

 

[Hatfield]

Good morning all! Took a much needed break from little Cupcake's thread.

Me too. I had to take a break from this thread after she was found. Some cases hit us harder than others and this was one of them that hit pretty darn hard. Very painful to learn she was deceased which was everyone's fear.

Hope justice comes swift for the two in jail.

 

[Stunned]

Me too. I had to take a break from this thread after she was found. Some cases hit us harder than others and this was one of them that hit pretty darn hard. Very painful to learn she was deceased which was everyone's fear.

Hope justice comes swift for the two in jail.

I also am back today. This case stunned me.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

A somber day for KM's family, and the community of Birmingham.

And I'm already struggling over swift justice for this baby girl.

More specifically, I'll start with PS.

Reportedly -- this 39 year old man has NO criminal history in AL or FL with exception of a misdemeanor marijuana possession from 15 years ago! (Another marijuana charge years later was dismissed).

Although PS and DB were sought for questioning in the abduction of this precious child, after holding PS for 48 hours, the only criminal charges that could be filed against him were -4- charges of possession of obscene material depicting child under age 17, and -3- charges possession/intent to disseminate.

It was a gift that DB could be held for prior felony probation.

Checking the actual legal definitions for these *advertiser censored* charges in the Alabama Criminal Code, possession of obscene material (i.e., child *advertiser censored*) is treated as a Class C felony in Jefferson County, while possession with intent to disseminate is considered a Class B felony.

Child *advertiser censored* is broadly defined in Jefferson County.

While the laws prohibit possession, creation, and other actions involving obscene materials that contain a picture or any representation of a minor under the age of 17 exposing nude breasts or genitals or engaging in any act of sadomasochistic abuse, sexual intercourse, sexual excitement, [or] masturbation,
Ala. Code §13A-12-190 defines obscene matter as that which lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.

Under these broad definitions, a photo of a baby in a bathtub could arguably be treated as child *advertiser censored*, depending on the context and other related elements.

Ala. Code §13A-12-192 – Possession with intent to disseminate

The law presumes an individual has the intent to disseminate the material if three or more copies of the same picture are found in that individual’s possession.

Referencing prior defense cases for similar charges, this could simply be one 17 year old (who defendant didn't know was 17) sending defendant 3 photos of her exposed breasts (same picture doesn't have to mean identical).

In other words - essentially any sexting photo by a 17 year old or younger today would likely result in these criminal, *advertiser censored* charges.

I'm certainly not dismissing the serious offense of possessing obscene material of children and teens, but if after a 48 hour hold, this is the best that Jefferson County detectives could charge PS, I won't be surprised if most if not all of these charges are dismissed against PS. Also, it's already been confirmed by LE that none of these photos were of KM.

I also struggle to understand why intelligent, family and friends would be so quick to spring PS from jail-- and with substantial financial risk to themselves.

It does not follow how the accused could go undetected all these years because I don't believe this could possibly be his first act.

He can't just be lucky! Why has he been protected all these years? Was he possibly an informant?

I want to know! And more important, is the right man in custody?

MOO

I’m catching up as I took a break too.

I am curious about your thought on informant. What do you mean?

I feel like we know nothing about him. His work history, etc, etc. I also think if there were other victims of his out there, would they be able to tell anyone? Specifically if they were young, or even DB’s own kids. Would anyone want to come forward at this time and say something had happened to them? I think that would be hard to do, especially knowing he’s about to get the worse gate imaginable.

 

[SouthAussie]

I’m catching up as I took a break too.

I am curious about your thought on informant. What do you mean?

I feel like we know nothing about him. His work history, etc, etc. I also think if there were other victims of his out there, would they be able to tell anyone? Specifically if they were young, or even DB’s own kids. Would anyone want to come forward at this time and say something had happened to them? I think that would be hard to do, especially knowing he’s about to get the worse gate imaginable.

If PS is a pedo, there are indications that only about 5% of them are ever actually apprehended - and all studies into their behaviour are based on that 5%.
That leaves a huge 95% of them who get away with their crimes against children.


As Judith Herman, a psychologist who works with abused children at the Victims of Violence clinic in Boston told The Daily Beast in an e-mail: “Truthfully, I don't think the psychiatric profession has much of a clue about pedophiles. Most studies are based on…the 5 percent who get caught—a very unrepresentative group.” In other words, most pedophilia research subjects are outliers.
What Science Reveals About Pedophilia

 

[Stunned]

If PS is a pedo, there are indications that only about 5% of them are ever actually apprehended - and all studies into their behaviour are based on that 5%.
That leaves a huge 95% of them who get away with their crimes against children.


As Judith Herman, a psychologist who works with abused children at the Victims of Violence clinic in Boston told The Daily Beast in an e-mail: “Truthfully, I don't think the psychiatric profession has much of a clue about pedophiles. Most studies are based on…the 5 percent who get caught—a very unrepresentative group.” In other words, most pedophilia research subjects are outliers.
What Science Reveals About Pedophilia

What an awful percentage!

 

[MummyRatcliffe]

If they don’t make a plea (for LWOP), the family will have to go through a very traumatizing trial. What does the family hope will happen? Has “the public” asked them before they made this petition? As much as these 2 deserve the death penalty, my thoughts are for the family. They deserve to grieve in peace. I hope that whatever happens, Cupcake’s family are protected....somehow. MOO

Totally agreee, even though many people agree the death penalty is just, we don't know what Cupcakes family feel about it. Some people don't agree with DP under any circumstances. I agree what they feel about it matters more than anything else.

I, personally, feel the death penalty is an easy out for these reprobates and suffering in a cage for the rest of their miserable lives, afraid if today is the day another inmate gets to them, is a more just form of punishment MOO

 

[peppertheyorkiepoo]

I understand how feel, on other hand,I do not believe society should have to feed cioth ect... Get them out of people's lives. Makes more prison room.Iess burden on society as a whole.

 

[MummyRatcliffe]

Good morning all! Took a much needed break from little Cupcake's thread.

Now to comment on this link, and give only my personally held opinions.

To me it shows far more excuses are made for female sex predators than men who sexually prey on innocent underage victims. Which isn't surprising because mental health professionals have long given female murderers a plethora of excuses when they cold bloodily murder their own children or any other victim for that matter.

It also shows sex predators, no matter their gender simply can't be put in statistical box.

Imo, from researching for decades now about both offenders their motives for doing so are similiar instead of different.

We really have no clue how many pedophile offenders are women.

Often their targeted prey are young males which are the least likely gender to ever report being sexually assaulted by female predators. Through the years I've read cases where the boy victims were sexually molested or raped by their own mothers starting at a very tender age of 5 or 6. There are several blog sites now started by adult men who were sexually traumatized victims by their mom or another trusted female family member. I hope more sites will be done now to give other male victims a chance to have a voice to express what happened to all of them.

Imo, the reason why they remain silent when dealing with the trauma themselves is because society overall has sent a strong message to all abused boys they are to feel lucky, when they are raped by a female pedophile.

Sexually abused boy victims are 10 times more likely in trying to commit suicide than abused females. Why? Imo, it's obvious. Instead of feeling lucky like they are told to feel they are just as deeply traumatized as females.

Also females who suffer sexual abuse by either gender have support groups, even close female friends. However the abused boys have no one who wants to even listen, much less understand, including close guy friends who've never been raped.

Imo, it is one of the reasons we are losing over 25K adult males every single year in our country.

I know how traumatizing it is to hold all of the dark secrets inside of a sexual abuser telling no one. I didn't tell a soul until I was 38 years old, what had happened to me. It started at the age 2 for being physically abused, and the sex abuse started when I was 5 until I turned 16. Thank God my baby brother was born after mebeing the only child before then in my house of horrors, and isolation.

I knew then I had a true purpose in life rather than being only there to be abused, physically, emotionally, and sexually. I knew then I was there to be the protector of my brother, and my parents had another beautiful son 10 months after my other precious brother was born.

Imo, more sexually abused boys will die by suicide, when they are young or when they become adult men from the sexual trauma, because they felt society never cared about their own pain, and suffering because they happened to be male victims.

Jmhoo

I think you are wonderful, a true survivor who fights to be the voice for every abused child out there. You're a warrior Ocean and I have nothing but respect for you MOO

 

[MummyRatcliffe]

If PS is a pedo, there are indications that only about 5% of them are ever actually apprehended - and all studies into their behaviour are based on that 5%.
That leaves a huge 95% of them who get away with their crimes against children.


As Judith Herman, a psychologist who works with abused children at the Victims of Violence clinic in Boston told The Daily Beast in an e-mail: “Truthfully, I don't think the psychiatric profession has much of a clue about pedophiles. Most studies are based on…the 5 percent who get caught—a very unrepresentative group.” In other words, most pedophilia research subjects are outliers.
What Science Reveals About Pedophilia

BBM. I had no idea it's only 5%, how shocking is that... what can we do to ensure more of them are caught? To ensure more children have the courage to speak up and confide in someone?

 

[PajamaSleuth]

I missed a few days due to a family situation so please forgive me! I have some questions. I can’t tell if I missed it or if it hasn’t been mentioned, but....

was the cause of death, including any trauma that sweet Cupckae endured made public??

And next question, what do they think was the motive? I understand this is tricky because a motive is not necessary for a conviction. And not to mention the pedo related charges seem like an indication. I’m just hoping it isn’t. Although I can’t think of what else it could be? Trying to “replace” the children that DB lost custody of?

and lastly (for now!) were there other children involved? The video of the two children playing when two adults walked by, was that Cupcake or another victim?

Thank you in advance for indulging me. I appreciate any clarification I can get.

 

[PommyMommy]

I missed a few days due to a family situation so please forgive me! I have some questions. I can’t tell if I missed it or if it hasn’t been mentioned, but....

was the cause of death, including any trauma that sweet Cupckae endured made public??

And next question, what do they think was the motive? I understand this is tricky because a motive is not necessary for a conviction. And not to mention the pedo related charges seem like an indication. I’m just hoping it isn’t. Although I can’t think of what else it could be? Trying to “replace” the children that DB lost custody of?

and lastly (for now!) were there other children involved? The video of the two children playing when two adults walked by, was that Cupcake or another victim?

Thank you in advance for indulging me. I appreciate any clarification I can get.

The cause of death was asphyxiation by suffocation.

LE has not commented on motive.

The children in the video were Cupcake and a cousin.

MOO

 

[Stunned]

Good morning all! Took a much needed break from little Cupcake's thread.

Now to comment on this link, and give only my personally held opinions.

To me it shows far more excuses are made for female sex predators than men who sexually prey on innocent underage victims. Which isn't surprising because mental health professionals have long given female murderers a plethora of excuses when they cold bloodily murder their own children or any other victim for that matter.

It also shows sex predators, no matter their gender simply can't be put in statistical box.

Imo, from researching for decades now about both offenders their motives for doing so are similiar instead of different.

We really have no clue how many pedophile offenders are women.

Often their targeted prey are young males which are the least likely gender to ever report being sexually assaulted by female predators. Through the years I've read cases where the boy victims were sexually molested or raped by their own mothers starting at a very tender age of 5 or 6. There are several blog sites now started by adult men who were sexually traumatized victims by their mom or another trusted female family member. I hope more sites will be done now to give other male victims a chance to have a voice to express what happened to all of them.

Imo, the reason why they remain silent when dealing with the trauma themselves is because society overall has sent a strong message to all abused boys they are to feel lucky, when they are raped by a female pedophile.

Sexually abused boy victims are 10 times more likely in trying to commit suicide than abused females. Why? Imo, it's obvious. Instead of feeling lucky like they are told to feel they are just as deeply traumatized as females.

Also females who suffer sexual abuse by either gender have support groups, even close female friends. However the abused boys have no one who wants to even listen, much less understand, including close guy friends who've never been raped.

Imo, it is one of the reasons we are losing over 25K adult males every single year in our country.

I know how traumatizing it is to hold all of the dark secrets inside of a sexual abuser telling no one. I didn't tell a soul until I was 38 years old, what had happened to me. It started at the age 2 for being physically abused, and the sex abuse started when I was 5 until I turned 16. Thank God my baby brother was born after mebeing the only child before then in my house of horrors, and isolation.

I knew then I had a true purpose in life rather than being only there to be abused, physically, emotionally, and sexually. I knew then I was there to be the protector of my brother, and my parents had another beautiful son 10 months after my other precious brother was born.

Imo, more sexually abused boys will die by suicide, when they are young or when they become adult men from the sexual trauma, because they felt society never cared about their own pain, and suffering because they happened to be male victims.

Jmhoo

Wow! Excellent heartbreaking post! Thanks for sharing. You are right, no one considers the boys! We must change as a society to recognize all abuse as equally exploitive and wrong.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

BBM. I had no idea it's only 5%, how shocking is that... what can we do to ensure more of them are caught? To ensure more children have the courage to speak up and confide in someone?

We begin with our own children. Where ever they attend (public school, pre-school, day care, etc.) there should be programs tailored to each age group (for appropriate language). We need to realllly drive it home to the kids that it is OK to TELL when someone is doing bad things to them. We need to make them feel SAFE & SECURE & have better guidelines/training for things like CPS, etc. that can actually DO something when a child says “I am hurting.” Better trained guidance counselors & school nurses, anyone that is a mandatory reporter.
That is where it needs to begin because we can not, with our own eyes, actually see that these sickos are who they are...I wish there was a way to see into someone’s soul, but we can’t.
I see a lot of times that prior to these more serious crimes, there were prior victims of molestation, etc. If these demons were LOCKED UP THE FIRST TIME, or castrated, or whatever the he** needs to be done, we would NOT have murdered children because of a pedo.
Make things easier for the kids to tell, make it easier for the kids to get AWAY from these monsters & DEAL WITH THEM THE FIRST TIME.

MOO IMO & all that
Sorry for the rant

 

[Stunned]

We begin with our own children. Where ever they attend (public school, pre-school, day care, etc.) there should be programs tailored to each age group (for appropriate language). We need to realllly drive it home to the kids that it is OK to TELL when someone is doing bad things to them. We need to make them feel SAFE & SECURE & have better guidelines/training for things like CPS, etc. that can actually DO something when a child says “I am hurting.” Better trained guidance counselors & school nurses, anyone that is a mandatory reporter.
That is where it needs to begin because we can not, with our own eyes, actually see that these sickos are who they are...I wish there was a way to see into someone’s soul, but we can’t.
I see a lot of times that prior to these more serious crimes, there were prior victims of molestation, etc. If these demons were LOCKED UP THE FIRST TIME, or castrated, or whatever the he** needs to be done, we would NOT have murdered children because of a pedo.
Make things easier for the kids to tell, make it easier for the kids to get AWAY from these monsters & DEAL WITH THEM THE FIRST TIME.

MOO IMO & all that
Sorry for the rant

Great post. But.......do you have any idea how many times mandatory reporters are ignored? That’s a whole different crime.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

Great post. But.......do you have any idea how many times mandatory reporters are ignored? That’s a whole different crime.

You are right. So add to that our society & justice system need to make our kids a priority. Something HAS to change.

 

[Stunned]

You are right. So add to that our society & justice system need to make our kids a priority. Something HAS to change.

I wonder what it is going to take to make our children a priority. They sure don’t seem to be, sadly.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

I wonder what it is going to take to make our children a priority. They sure don’t seem to be, sadly.

Honestly, there should be some type of hearing or summit or march or something, IDK what to call it. Victims families could be represented by a spokesperson like John Walsh, Marc Klass, etc. And I’m talking as many families that can show up, you know? Push for changes that are going to help save kids from being hurt by these sickos.
MOO

 

[Stunned]

Honestly, there should be some type of hearing or summit or march or something, IDK what to call it. Victims families could be represented by a spokesperson like John Walsh, Marc Klass, etc. And I’m talking as many families that can show up, you know? Push for changes that are going to help save kids from being hurt by these sickos.
MOO

I’m sure there have been many summits. At my work we had 2 or 3 meetings a year on recognizing and reporting child abuse or sexualized behaviors in children. When we did, we were hushed, when we went around them and went to DSS ourselves (more often than they will ever know) we were almost always shut down there. So we waited......sadly we were almost always proved right. And THAT is why I finally had too leave a job I loved.

 

[MummyRatcliffe]

We begin with our own children. Where ever they attend (public school, pre-school, day care, etc.) there should be programs tailored to each age group (for appropriate language). We need to realllly drive it home to the kids that it is OK to TELL when someone is doing bad things to them. We need to make them feel SAFE & SECURE & have better guidelines/training for things like CPS, etc. that can actually DO something when a child says “I am hurting.” Better trained guidance counselors & school nurses, anyone that is a mandatory reporter.
That is where it needs to begin because we can not, with our own eyes, actually see that these sickos are who they are...I wish there was a way to see into someone’s soul, but we can’t.
I see a lot of times that prior to these more serious crimes, there were prior victims of molestation, etc. If these demons were LOCKED UP THE FIRST TIME, or castrated, or whatever the he** needs to be done, we would NOT have murdered children because of a pedo.
Make things easier for the kids to tell, make it easier for the kids to get AWAY from these monsters & DEAL WITH THEM THE FIRST TIME.

MOO IMO & all that
Sorry for the rant

It wasn't a rant to me sleuther, it was a really great post. I agree completely, education and talking about it is key. We need to drop the taboo, and all schools should be teaching young children, as well as parents of course.

There's no denying that child sexual abuse is prevalent in society and always has been, there's a huge chance if you weren't a victim yourself, you know of someone who was.