AL - Karen Shahan, 53, murdered, Homewood, 23 July 2013 #1

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He'll probably manage to get out on bail. I'm sure he still has some supporters among the congregation that would vouch for him and give him a place to stay.

I have a question about his trips to Kazakhstan. How common is it for a church to sponsor only one person on a short term mission trip? I'm a Baptist and have seen lots of mission trips take place, but none of the short term trips have been just one person. There is always a team of people that goes.

Here are the links to the Nov & Dec 2012 church newsletters that discuss one of his prior trips.
http://fbcbirmingham.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/november-2012-messenger.pdf
http://fbcbirmingham.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/December-2012-Messenger.pdf
 
Is this going to be a first degree murder charge, possibly premeditated? Maybe that is why they took so long to arrest in hopes of getting as much evidence together as possible to prove motive and get a conviction. I'm afraid the attempt to leave the country on a PRE planned move or trip could be just one more piece of evidence and if he didn't do it, he's in deep trouble.
 
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Thanks, Lambchop
 
He'll probably manage to get out on bail. I'm sure he still has some supporters among the congregation that would vouch for him and give him a place to stay.

I have a question about his trips to Kazakhstan. How common is it for a church to sponsor only one person on a short term mission trip? I'm a Baptist and have seen lots of mission trips take place, but none of the short term trips have been just one person. There is always a team of people that goes.

Here are the links to the Nov & Dec 2012 church newsletters that discuss one of his prior trips.
http://fbcbirmingham.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/november-2012-messenger.pdf
http://fbcbirmingham.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/December-2012-Messenger.pdf
Welcome to Websleuths!

And, thanks for posting links to those other two newsletters, I had not seen those articles before. I was under the impression his trips in 2012 were of a longer duration.

But, with that said, (and I am not at all knowledgeable about missions, etc.) from what I have read, Kazakhstan has developed laws in the last eight or more years regarding missionaries. Basically they have a law that says you must register as a missionary to do missionary work in their country. It seems that the Baptists refuse to register. By not registering it effects the kind of visa they can get, and for how long.

Mostly it seems to amount to Kazakhstan not wanting a bunch of foreign missionaries, evangelists, and proselytizers running around rampant in their country. Can't say that I blame them. That's my take on it anyhow. I am sure there are others more knowledgeable than myself.
 
Welcome to Websleuths!

And, thanks for posting links to those other two newsletters, I had not seen those articles before. I was under the impression his trips in 2012 were of a longer duration.

But, with that said, (and I am not at all knowledgeable about missions, etc.) from what I have read, Kazakhstan has developed laws in the last eight or more years regarding missionaries. Basically they have a law that says you must register as a missionary to do missionary work in their country. It seems that the Baptists refuse to register. By not registering it effects the kind of visa they can get, and for how long.

Mostly it seems to amount to Kazakhstan not wanting a bunch of foreign missionaries, evangelists, and proselytizers running around rampant in their country. Can't say that I blame them. That's my take on it anyhow. I am sure there are others more knowledgeable than myself.


Not sure about this but wasn't he planning to go back and forth to Germany during the period of time he was spending there? Some countries you have to be out of the country for 30 days before you can reenter.
 
Not sure about this but wasn't he planning to go back and forth to Germany during the period of time he was spending there? Some countries you have to be out of the country for 30 days before you can reenter.
I imagine it depends on exactly what type of visa he would get.

Here is a website for the Kazakhstan Embassy in Washington D.C.:

http://www.kazakhembus.com/page/visa-and-consular
 
He'll probably manage to get out on bail. I'm sure he still has some supporters among the congregation that would vouch for him and give him a place to stay.

I have a question about his trips to Kazakhstan. How common is it for a church to sponsor only one person on a short term mission trip? I'm a Baptist and have seen lots of mission trips take place, but none of the short term trips have been just one person. There is always a team of people that goes.

While it's not as common as a full team (of whatever size - even just three or four, well, two as well, but three or four would typically be more the low end up to dozens) it's certainly not something that doesn't happen with some regularity.

I'd say more often than not it's a pastor, typically the missions pastor or senior pastor, and especially if going to visit someone or someones who actually themselves are missionaries (nearly always at least relatively long term) or nationals who essentially serve as missionaries or have a ministry in their own countries or neighboring or something.

But you also see it with others, especially if they have a particular gifting or training or background that would assist either people on the field long-term or, again, nationals. For instance going to provide counseling for missionaries so sending a pastoral counselor, or a children's ministry person going to help had up a VBS sort of thing, or one who is going to help provide a retreat for missionaries or..well, the list could go on.

All of that is far more common in churches that place a decent amount of emphasis on missions. Whether they prioritize it as something they help financially support pretty heavily, or by sending those from their own church overseas somewhere long term, etc.

And then you definitely have a good number who go over on their own as lay people, essentially, whether officially (representing a particular church perhaps, filling a need that someone - organization, church, missionaries on the ground, whatever - know is a need you might be a fit to assist with or provide training or encouragement or such.

In addition to those, you also have the ones who have their own contacts for whatever reason - friends, family, etc., who may not have any affiliation whatsoever to their own church. Or those who go alone but partner with an organization/ministry on the field vs. one their own church might have an affiliation with.

Take World Relief, for instance - since that's a pretty widely known organization - knows you could train their folks in a particular place on _____ (fill in the blank w/ whatever) because you've written a book on it, or you've previously worked in a capacity that would equip you to meet a particular need on a short-term basis (even just speaking at a retreat for a day or two so their own people can be ministered to, not doing all the ministering all the time) Or if your brother was a missionary pilot with Mission Aviation Fellowship and he knew you knew a lot about homeschooling and shared that w/ others wherever he was serving, and they asked (or you offered) to go out and consult w/ families about schooling needs.

If you're going completely solo, it's likely a church might offer prayer support, but typically they won't help with the financial side (as often you don't have much accountability in terms of how your time was really spent, etc.) - and thus, very rarely something that can include raising support for it as in other cases. That means no tax deductible gifts, which then sometimes limits the willingness of others to help provide financial assitance.

If you're going in a slightly more official capacity - church asking you to go to serve missionaries from your own church overseas, or b/c an organization asked you, etc. Then it's far more likely they'll not only give prayer support, put it in the bulletin (like in this case) and possibly publicly be able to raise support (meaning also then tax deductible), etc.

I've gone totally alone and paid everything out of pocket, alone w/ no backing but w/ some who asked for me to let them help with some of that, alone at the request of an organization, alone at the request of missionaries I knew there, alone at the request of friends/family who knew I had a particular gifting, and alone as a church staff person.

Plus I was overseas longer term (so support raised through the organization, while the church also heavily supported me - with prayer and with a good bit of the financial support needed - and of course the emotional support also)

So I've seen a lot of sides to it - both from my own experiences and just a number of other factors/ties/connections in my life.

Hope that helps?
 
I have a question about his trips to Kazakhstan. How common is it for a church to sponsor only one person on a short term mission trip? I'm a Baptist and have seen lots of mission trips take place, but none of the short term trips have been just one person. There is always a team of people that goes.

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I'm a Baptist, too, and am pretty involved in these kinds of things. While short-term mission trips (less than 2 weeks) usually involve teams, it is much more common to see only 1 or 2 people on mid-term trips (2-6 weeks) or long-term trips (several months to 2-3 years). When a trip is for the purpose of teaching, it is also common for just one person to go. I've seen this happen several times.
 
My experiences with missions has been this. Back in the nineties when our older kids were teens, our church sponsored several mission trips our youth groups participated in. What they did was go to an area in the summer where churches with a smaller adult membership needed help and they would serve as teachers /helpers with Vacation Bible School. The kids participated in fundraisers all year, and the church also contributed to it.


My son is a youth minister and has been employed by several very large churches, one of them in Birmingham. He has participated in several church sponsored overseas mission trips. The people going on the trips got sponsors, the church contributed and the people also used their own money. They were usually gone two weeks at a time. They would do a VBS type thing with the children, it was sponsored by a local church in that country. He has been with groups to Africa, Haiti, and Moldova. When they went to Haiti, I believe they also had a medical team as well with them.

These people were all strictly volunteers of all ages from their church.

A former pastor of ours now heads up a mission group that plants churches in Africa. He travels there often. Their main goal is to train African pastors to start new churches, so they are often brought here, for training, then go home. This group helps the African churches financially too. My former pastor lives here, so he is not a missionary in the traditional sense of the word.

Guess what I am trying to make clear is, there are lots of jobs and activities that fall under the titles of missions and missionaries. They don't just go out trying to convert, many also go with a purpose of helping in other areas of need, the "converting" just goes along with their other jobs.

Hope that helps.
 
Even after reading about various cases for years, I'm still not familiar with the process. What is going to happen? I'm assuming he'll be taken back to Georgia, but then what? Will we hear the exact charges? I'm confused about things like a grand jury and if it's always used or not, and wondering what all has already happened and what will happen.
 
Even after reading about various cases for years, I'm still not familiar with the process. What is going to happen? I'm assuming he'll be taken back to Georgia, but then what? Will we hear the exact charges? I'm confused about things like a grand jury and if it's always used or not, and wondering what all has already happened and what will happen.

AL LE will have to go to Nashville to get him and bring him back to Homewood. They have 10 days and since he did not fight the extradition I'm surprised they have not already brought him back, but I could be wrong. It's approximately 3 hours away but they do have 10 days so it will be interesting to see how long it takes them to pick him up and bring him back. LE knows he's not going anywhere. Once he gets back and booked he has to wait for an Arraignment Hearing. Since he was arrested on a "flight" charge he is not entitled to bail so his attorney will have to argue that RS was not trying to flee and that neither he nor his client had reason to believe there was a warrant issued.

As for a grand jury none has been mentioned and LE usually will mention that. If they know there is not much evidence LE might not want a grand jury involved, but that is just my opinion only. LE knew he was planning on leaving so the way they arrested him secures him until trial unless the judge feels he was not attempting to flee. jmo
 
Lambchop, in your last post, perhaps you just answered a question several have asked

"Since he was arrested on a "flight" charge he is not entitled to bail ."

Maybe this is why they waited to arrest him so that they could get the flight charge and not have to allow for a chance of letting him out on bail?

I don't know the answers to law questions, with your experience, I'm sure that you do, but could they have held him with out bail if they had went ahead and arrested him before he left Birmingham? If, so, would it have been harder to hold him W/o bail if they didnt have the flight charge? TIA.
 
AL LE will have to go to Nashville to get him and bring him back to Homewood. They have 10 days and since he did not fight the extradition I'm surprised they have not already brought him back, but I could be wrong. It's approximately 3 hours away but they do have 10 days so it will be interesting to see how long it takes them to pick him up and bring him back. LE knows he's not going anywhere. Once he gets back and booked he has to wait for an Arraignment Hearing. Since he was arrested on a "flight" charge he is not entitled to bail so his attorney will have to argue that RS was not trying to flee and that neither he nor his client had reason to believe there was a warrant issued.

As for a grand jury none has been mentioned and LE usually will mention that. If they know there is not much evidence LE might not want a grand jury involved, but that is just my opinion only. LE knew he was planning on leaving so the way they arrested him secures him until trial unless the judge feels he was not attempting to flee. jmo
Thank you, LambChop, for this clarification...

Since I am not well versed in legalities... This is beneficial to me....

:seeya:
 
I can't find the PC transcript, but LE said the warrant for his arrest was issued by the DA. Would they need a GJ after a warrant was already issued? MSM hasn't posted the actual arrest warrant yet, just the affidavit used to arrest RS.
 
The arrest warrant would be very informative...

Is there some way we can research this?

JMO
 
Homewood pastor Richard Shahan expected to return to Jefferson County today

BIRMINGHAM, Alabama - Homewood minister Richard Shahan is expected to return to Jefferson County some time on Wednesday.

Shahan will be transported from Tennessee to the Jefferson County Jail after he waived extradition during a hearing on Tuesday in Nashville. Shahan is charged with murder in the summer slaying of his wife, Karen Louise Shahan.
 
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