AL - Karen Shahan, 53, murdered, Homewood, 23 July 2013 #1

[txsvicki]

There is severe persecution of Christians in Kazahkstan. I doubt if the pastor would want to live there permanently. To get someone out of there, maybe. Edited: I probably should have said there is oppression in that country. They may not be getting murdered but heavy fines and problems from others that are the dominant religion.

 

[singers]

IMO..a woman is not involved.. A lot of men have affairs even Christian men..they repent with their wives at their sides. Forgiveness..I am probably wrong, but I just do not see that a Christian man would kill his wife for another woman. After all, Jerry Swaggart was forgiven., Jim Bakker was forgiven. Books are written about how an affair brought the couple closer together. What is bad is a Ted Haggard scenario. I hope i am wrong. :moo:

Actually i think he would kill for another woman (Christian or non-Christian makes no difference), because then he would get to marry the new one and be rid of the old one. However if it was a man it would have to be kept secret and would be better to have a wife as a "front." Very few churches would accept gay marriage. If he did marry a guy he would probably need to move church anyway, so no need to kill his wife.

I think the motive may be that he fell in love in Kazakhstan and wanted to remarry and continue in his ministry. Any other thoughts or leads on a motive?

 

[txsvicki]

I'm not saying I think he did it or was in on it, but a lover, a woman or even a man might kill the spouse to get what they want, or to save their own reputation and finances should secrets be exposed.

 

[Sulamith]

There is severe persecution of Christians in Kazahkstan. I doubt if the pastor would want to live there permanently. To get someone out of there, maybe. Edited: I probably should have said there is oppression in that country. They may not be getting murdered but heavy fines and problems from others that are the dominant religion.

From what Google tells me, there is no extradition treaty between the US and Kazakstan so I doubt that LE will allow RS to travel there while the investigation is going on.

 

[TravelingBug]

<snip> That is just my guess. MOO

OT I know here on WS we are pretty good at adding IMO, MOO after our posts. I was posting on another forum and added MOO. Some poor lady called me on it, she thought I was calling her a cow! I explained. It is just by habit now that I add MOO to my posts.The few other forums I post at do not require it. I thought it was funny and it took me a minute or so to figure out why she thought I was calling her a cow!

:floorlaugh: That cracked me up to read (your recount of it!)

As far as the comment from the pastor about it being ok to ask questions, I suspect what he really meant was that it's ok to ask God questions.

So often, especially in the church (being raised in it, being a pastor's daughter, and then working in ministry myself) you see that some people feel like if they said they are Christians that they can't struggle with the "why" and "how" sorts of questions if they truly believe.

Like "Why/how did God allow ______ to happen to _______?"

I think it stems from a misconception that if they really wholeheartedly trust Him, that they'll just trust He has a plan for using _______ for His glory and our good and never question/doubt/struggle.

It's not uncommon to hear in (many - or most, probably even) faith communities after a tragedy, whether it's one that impacts just friends/family, one that impacts a broader community, or one that has tremendous widespread impact.

I suspect that's the vein in which the pastor's comment about questions being ok was actually alluding to.

Those of you who haven't been around as long and who didn't follow Chelsea King's abduction and murder wouldn't have seen my postings back then. Her abduction happened at the park down the street from me where I also used to run and her body was found within eyesight of my yard. My pastor did her funeral service.

And I know that was something he conveyed - that God's big enough to handle the "why/how" questions, but also that it's ok to ask the other questions, too.

Even pastors of mega churches, like Rick Warren at Saddleback, find themselves not only asking those questions, but being recipients of the "why/how" questions that are more "crisis specific." When his son committed suicide a few months back he was SLAMMED with criticisms and questions and scrutiny. People asked how they let their grown son live on his own when they knew he suffered from depression (he battled it all his life and eventually killed himself as a result). They asked if he and his wife were too wrapped up in their work to know how ill Matthew was, etc. But I know even many of the people asking the most questions ultimately came to a place where they realized that they were really asking those questions because for many people, on a 'flesh' level, asking questions of a person feels so much safer than asking God.

If that makes sense?

I know what I'm trying to say... :blushing:

 

[TravelingBug]

All that said, I do hope LE is making headway on making sure justice does come about for Karen - whomever is responsible for her death.

It's an incredibly hard thing on a community - especially when there are questions and suspicions and it feels like no answers.

One of my biggest surprises is the silence from the kids. Though I've not posted prior to now (or in 9 months, for that matter) I've been following from the get go and unless I've missed something, it doesn't seem like we've heard anything about how they are managing or how much they loved/miss their mom, etc.

To me, it's a bit hard not to make my interpretation of it go a particular direction as far as what they think may have happened.

Or, they really could just purely be overwhelmed with grief and mourning her privately. Or some mix of the above, I suppose.

 

[singers]

All that said, I do hope LE is making headway on making sure justice does come about for Karen - whomever is responsible for her death.

It's an incredibly hard thing on a community - especially when there are questions and suspicions and it feels like no answers.

One of my biggest surprises is the silence from the kids. Though I've not posted prior to now (or in 9 months, for that matter) I've been following from the get go and unless I've missed something, it doesn't seem like we've heard anything about how they are managing or how much they loved/miss their mom, etc.

To me, it's a bit hard not to make my interpretation of it go a particular direction as far as what they think may have happened.

Or, they really could just purely be overwhelmed with grief and mourning her privately. Or some mix of the above, I suppose.

Yes the silence is odd. No husband or kids begging for any information or trying to find the killer. Silence also from the police, you'd think they would be asking for leads or something.

No good friends of Karen making any comments anywhere that i have seen.

We don't have much information to go on.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

All that said, I do hope LE is making headway on making sure justice does come about for Karen - whomever is responsible for her death.

It's an incredibly hard thing on a community - especially when there are questions and suspicions and it feels like no answers.

One of my biggest surprises is the silence from the kids. Though I've not posted prior to now (or in 9 months, for that matter) I've been following from the get go and unless I've missed something, it doesn't seem like we've heard anything about how they are managing or how much they loved/miss their mom, etc.

To me, it's a bit hard not to make my interpretation of it go a particular direction as far as what they think may have happened.

Or, they really could just purely be overwhelmed with grief and mourning her privately. Or some mix of the above, I suppose.

:welcome: Back to posting, TBug...

Yes... There are so many puzzling aspects of this case... Isn't there? :waitasec:

JMO

 

[ClemiFern]

I'm not saying I think he did it or was in on it, but a lover, a woman or even a man might kill the spouse to get what they want, or to save their own reputation and finances should secrets be exposed.

This, IMO, is a very valid theory.

 

[kahne9]

All that said, I do hope LE is making headway on making sure justice does come about for Karen - whomever is responsible for her death.

It's an incredibly hard thing on a community - especially when there are questions and suspicions and it feels like no answers.

One of my biggest surprises is the silence from the kids. Though I've not posted prior to now (or in 9 months, for that matter) I've been following from the get go and unless I've missed something, it doesn't seem like we've heard anything about how they are managing or how much they loved/miss their mom, etc.

To me, it's a bit hard not to make my interpretation of it go a particular direction as far as what they think may have happened.

Or, they really could just purely be overwhelmed with grief and mourning her privately. Or some mix of the above, I suppose.

Being a member of that FBC and having 2 kids of my own who have known Richard and Karen....I can tell you that this has been very, very hard on the kids. I can also tell you that I just found out that one of my kids has been having nightmares and NEVER goes to bed without making sure the alarm is set. I can also say that I figured it would be harder on my youngest but It's been harder on my teenager. They are sad and confused. I'm not sure about other parents, but I've told my kids not to talk to ANYONE but me or their dad. Kids shouldn't been brought into this mess. God gave me my children to love and protect them, I don't want anyone to make this harder on them than it already is.

 

[LambChop]

All that said, I do hope LE is making headway on making sure justice does come about for Karen - whomever is responsible for her death.

It's an incredibly hard thing on a community - especially when there are questions and suspicions and it feels like no answers.

One of my biggest surprises is the silence from the kids. Though I've not posted prior to now (or in 9 months, for that matter) I've been following from the get go and unless I've missed something, it doesn't seem like we've heard anything about how they are managing or how much they loved/miss their mom, etc.

To me, it's a bit hard not to make my interpretation of it go a particular direction as far as what they think may have happened.

Or, they really could just purely be overwhelmed with grief and mourning her privately. Or some mix of the above, I suppose.

Karen's children are adults living in other states. I would assume that very much like any adult children they are grieving in their own way in privacy which is what you would expect. It must be very difficult for them not knowing who killed their mother. jmo

 

[ClemiFern]

Karen's children are adults living in other states. I would assume that very much like any adult children they are grieving in their own way in privacy which is what you would expect. It must be very difficult for them not knowing who killed their mother. jmo

You are correct about them being adults and living in other states, although I believe Mr. Shahan was in TN prior to going to KY to help one of their sons move back to B'ham to attend school there.

I don't know whether that move was ever completed but I would assume if the son had plans to attend a college in B'ham, he would need to be back by now or very, very soon as they have already began to start here in the state.

Nevertheless, if it were my parent that had been murdered, I'd be screaming at the top of my lungs for something to be done. Grieving, yes, but still demanding that LE give me some kind of answers. This is what is so disturbing to everyone, I think, is that they are not saying a word. JMO

 

[LambChop]

You are correct about them being adults and living in other states, although I believe Mr. Shahan was in TN prior to going to KY to help one of their sons move back to B'ham to attend school there.

I don't know whether that move was ever completed but I would assume if the son had plans to attend a college in B'ham, he would need to be back by now or very, very soon as they have already began to start here in the state.

Nevertheless, if it were my parent that had been murdered, I'd be screaming at the top of my lungs for something to be done. Grieving, yes, but still demanding that LE give me some kind of answers. This is what is so disturbing to everyone, I think, is that they are not saying a word. JMO

They may be doing just that but to the authorities and we would not necessarily hear about it. jmo

 

[LambChop]

The only discussions here regarding the husband should be anything that we know about his interview with LE. They let him go. He was not named a POI. Do not assume anything and certainly do not post that any family member is guilty of anything unless you want to see this thread go Poof.

Things may not be moving along as fast as we may want but TOS prevents us all from posting statements of facts that just are not true. Ask a question but don't point fingers in directions they do not belong. Don't make me make you cut your own switch. Chill.

 

[EllaMae]

I'm also worried this will become a cold case. HPD is a smaller force...known more for dealing with basic speeding tickets, local robberies etc. While they may "know" who is responsible, I worry they don't have the expertise to "prove" it. Just my opinion of course.

I grew up on the Southside and in Vestavia....so I am very familiar with Homewood. I frequent the area regularly because I have friends and family there.
Homewood actually has a rather high crime rate due solely to that rat's nest area around Valley Ave and Green Springs....so HPD may be more experienced than you think. They can also get assistance from State and Federal agencies if they need it. They may already be consulting with one of those groups. I certainly hope so.

 

[ClemiFern]

I grew up on the Southside and in Vestavia....so I am very familiar with Homewood. I frequent the area regularly because I have friends and family there.
Homewood actually has a rather high crime rate due solely to that rat's nest area around Valley Ave and Green Springs....so HPD may be more experienced than you think. They can also get assistance from State and Federal agencies if they need it. They may already be consulting with one of those groups. I certainly hope so.

You are so right about this!!! Thank you for posting it. I wanted to communicate this same thing but just couldn't find the right words... I, too, think Homewood police are perfectly capable of solving this crime and yes, they can get assistance if needed. They may already be doing just that.

 

[kahne9]

Yes the silence is odd. No husband or kids begging for any information or trying to find the killer. Silence also from the police, you'd think they would be asking for leads or something.

No good friends of Karen making any comments anywhere that i have seen.

We don't have much information to go on.

I just read your post again when I was reading all the new posts....when I read it before and saw where you said something about not hearing anything from the "kids" for some odd reason I thought you were talking about the kids in the church. I guess I jumped to that conclusion because Richard and Karen worked with my kids. Then Iwhen I read my post again, I decided that I should explain my post and apologize for my reply. I'm sure all of you were thinking...why did she post that??? Anyway, I was only thinking about my kids. It's just really hard on everybody.

 

[LambChop]

I just read your post again when I was reading all the new posts....when I read it before and saw where you said something about not hearing anything from the "kids" for some odd reason I thought you were talking about the kids in the church. I guess I jumped to that conclusion because Richard and Karen worked with my kids. Then Iwhen I read my post again, I decided that I should explain my post and apologize for my reply. I'm sure all of you were thinking...why did she post that??? Anyway, I was only thinking about my kids. It's just really hard on everybody.

This is the same for you as a violent death in your family. Is there grief counseling near you or available through the church because of what has happened. Your children could benefit from it and sound as if they really need to talk to someone about their fears. jmo

 

[kahne9]

This is the same for you as a violent death in your family. Is there grief counseling near you or available through the church because of what has happened. Your children could benefit from it and sound as if they really need to talk to someone about their fears. jmo

Yes, I set it up as soon as I found out about the nightmares. We told them that if they had any questions that they could come to us no matter what it was and that we would answer their questions the best we could and if we didn't know the answer that we would find someone who could help. They have always been very open with us. The dreams started 2 nights ago, so I guess I shouldn't feel like a horrible parent. That being said...there are things that kids should know at that age...and things they shouldn't. Ya know what I mean?

 

[SmoothOperator]

Its very upsetting to hear the realities that take place in this type of tragic and traumatic situation.. someone who serves in such an important role as a mentor to our children..and just what affects this entire nightmare is continuing to produce.. its a testament to what a wide, rippling continued wake of destruction that the horrific actions of one human being on another can/does bring about.. innocent children are part of this wake of destruction and for me its not only heartbreakingly sad, but its angering as well..

Whoever it is that is responsible for so viciously taking this woman's life has brought about so much pain and suffering for so many people, including innocent children that should not be having to deal with these questions, fears, and learning how to cope with how this traumatic event has and continues to affect them..

My continued prayers for all those who are being impacted with the tragic loss of this wonderful woman's life..I pray there be resolve in the very near future.