Found Deceased AL - Paighton Houston, 29, left bar with 2 men, Birmingham, 20 Dec 2019 #3

[reedus23]

Witnesses are direct evidence (as Wikipedia says and you just quoted). We will never have the mechanisms for "testing" evidence here on websleuths. The jury will decide, if this gets to a jury. Meantime, as Wikipedia also says, only *some* evidence is "anecdotal." Again, juries get to decide - groups of people.

You've made your decision, apparently. You have your own ideas about confirmation. To me, this witness provides a provisional hypothesis, which is way better than no witnesses. Sometimes, two witnesses are no better than one (if they're wrong). But this gives a place for LE to start developing how to go about finding out what happened to Paighton.

It's good to have at least some good will toward witnesses, because Lord knows we might all be a solo witness to something (and many of us have been) and if we're to be disregarded routinely by others, it gets harder to speak up. LE will sort it out.

Well said.

 

[jnTexas]

I think we're saying the same thing. I'm probably just being overly nitpicky in pointing out that there is evidence she was there but that evidence can be ignored if not credible. Believe you me, I an open to changing my mind as soon as there is new facts/evidence that comes to light.

For instance. The coworker has been a topic of conversation. I know we can't talk about FB here, but has anyone sleuthed to see if there were any feuds/fights between the coworker and PH? Something like that, would certainly make me question her word.

I think the reason others and I are having a heard time accepting the friend's account of PH leaving and texting her is because of PH's mom's statement that the friend's story kept changing. She did not elaborate on what changed though. I have no idea where I read the mom's statement as I am following this story on several different outlets. If that information is not allowed I can remove my comment.

 

[glynngoble]

You should never take anything at face value. But don't just discount it because, well just cuz. Beyond that, there are a lot of assumptions that there is nothing else supporting it. Do you think LE could have checked her phone to see if it pinged in a location consistent with being at the bar? Do you think more than just one coworker might have confirmed to LE that she was there? I agree. Don't take it at face value. But unless LE is lying, I believe they are confident enough that she was there to continue to put that out there.

I would doubt any of us on WS takes ANYTHING at face value! I also am well aware that we do not know everything that LE knows, nor should we. But here are the two ways I see this friend's story: It is not true and LE knew it was not true (like you said via pinging or another coworker contradicting friend's story) and knew if they made that public then we are all over them to go after the friend and her story. They were already doing that and did not need our two cents. The other way I see the friend's story is that it is true and LE confirmed it via pinging and TR video and other friends and bar patrons and pictures on social media. So there were either the two guys described by the friend or they developed intel that she left the TR with someone else. So they are all over media asking "Did you see these guys?" Without that, I feel they are showing their hand that we did not need to look for anyone, they were already on the trail of who they thought knew what happened. I have nothing more than goodwill toward witnesses. I assume everyone is telling the truth. But as the pieces come together we all have to judge what we believe rings true. Believing what someone says just because they say it does not make it true. IMHO

 

[SaucyWalker]

Really?!

My reaction, too!

 

[SaucyWalker]

They did not say whether clothed or unclothed.

Another omitted bit of information that could possibly answer some of the other questions.

 

[margarita25]

They did not say whether clothed or unclothed.

Another omitted bit of information that could possibly answer some of the other questions.

This is all so standard, imo. I’m thinking about Jessica Ridgeway’s case specifically here—-there was sooooo much we did not know until much later when the court documents came out...like for instance, among many unspeakable things, when they found her backpack, it really had her (urine soaked) clothes in them. And her glasses.

In other words, it doesn’t surprise me that we don’t know any of these details at this stage of the investigation imo, especially since they are just now completing the autopsy, etc.

(ETA: Al though sometimes we do in fact hear “nude body found”, but those are usually when it is found as a UID...or in Jessica’s case, “the body is not intact.” At least we know it’s intact.

 

[SaucyWalker]

"The police sergeant could not say for certain whether foul play was a factor.

“We’re not quite sure,” he said. “This is kind of a strange case. We’re not sure where she may be or the last person she actually spoke to at this point.”

https://nypost.com/2019/12/27/missi...ith-strange-men-texted-friend-she-was-afraid/

Ok, that's weird. If they don't know, then how is it the friend "knows she left willingly?"

Posted on December 31, 2019 by ABC News

(BIRMINGHAM, Ala.) — Family and friends are desperate for answers in the disappearance of a young Alabama woman not seen since she left a Birmingham bar 10 days ago. At a vigil Monday night at a church in Trussville, Alabama, where 29-year-old Paighton Houston lives, her community gathered to share hugs, songs and prayers of hope. Houston vanished after leaving Birmingham’s Tin Roof bar on the night of Dec. 21, the Birmingham Police Department said.She was spotted with two men and it appeared she left with them willingly, police said. [italics mine.]

 

[Crimechick27]

Paighton Houston's mom's heartbreaking message after daughter's body found

 

[margarita25]

Paighton Houston's mom's heartbreaking message after daughter's body found

““Our family didn’t get the news we had hoped for but I am very grateful that Paighton is coming home. We don’t have to go through the torture of not knowing what was happening to her and where she could be,” Chirlaine Houston posted on Facebook.”

[...]

“Houston’s mom put an optimistic spin on the disturbing discovery.

“I prayed that if she was already in heaven, I just had to know so my heart could put closure to the missing nightmare,” she wrote.

“Paighton is eternally home with Jesus. Our family appreciates all the prayers, love and support from the Trussville community and around the world for Paighton. She touched the hearts of many in our efforts to bring her home and my heart is touched by everyone’s love for our family.””

 

[Alathea]

I think we're saying the same thing. I'm probably just being overly nitpicky in pointing out that there is evidence she was there but that evidence can be ignored if not credible. Believe you me, I an open to changing my mind as soon as there is new facts/evidence that comes to light.

For instance. The coworker has been a topic of conversation. I know we can't talk about FB here, but has anyone sleuthed to see if there were any feuds/fights between the coworker and PH? Something like that, would certainly make me question her word.

Actually, I don't think you're being nitpicky - I think it's that we - well, in this case just "I" - think something quite different about the term "evidence."

Evidence is what a witness says as testimony, which is not at all what they might say to the media just after someone is "missing" or murdered (particularly - though we have no idea if this is the case here - when they are at fault somehow).

IOW, testimony - a sworn statement - is not at all equivalent to a statement made off the cuff to the media.

 

[Artis]

The danger with that logic is that you can then make the argument that anything is possible. There is no evidence that John Doe didn't do it. Since there's no evidence he didn't do it, he must have.

Quite right. We have no evidence that she was in that bar. We've been told that a friend said she was but no proof like video to back that up. Then this alleged friend, who claims P left with two unknown males, goes home without P, knowing P has no car to get home. Yeah, no. I'm calling BS on the whole story. 0 + 0 = 0 and that's what we've got.

I also find it very strange that this friend remains anonymous. I don't follow a lot of missing persons & murder cases but in those that I have, the last person to see someone alive is known and named. Why not now?

 

[Artis]

What happened to my old websleuths? Where is magnolia, panthera, steelydan, etc.? This is crazy. We have a young lady found dead buried in shallow grave and all we are talking about is how her so called friends didn't respond to a fake text?

Maybe because fake texts (if it turns out to be so) have been important in other murder cases. This is part of the narrative provided by the alleged last know person to see P alive (other than the phantom big black dudes). That is highly significant.

 

[Warwick7]

Quite right. We have no evidence that she was in that bar. We've been told that a friend said she was but no proof like video to back that up. Then this alleged friend, who claims P left with two unknown males, goes home without P, knowing P has no car to get home. Yeah, no. I'm calling BS on the whole story. 0 + 0 = 0 and that's what we've got.

I also find it very strange that this friend remains anonymous. I don't follow a lot of missing persons & murder cases but in those that I have, the last person to see someone alive is known and named. Why not now?

Agreed! And in the link I posted earlier. The coworker she texted was the same friend she road to the bar with. (Info coming from Mom).

And it bothers me this friend was not there helping with yellow ribbons.

 

[margarita25]

Agreed! And in the link I posted earlier. The coworker she texted was the same friend she road to the bar with. (Info coming from Mom).

And it bothers me this friend was not there helping with yellow ribbons.

Alright, don’t kill me but not helping with the yellow ribbons doesn’t bother me necessarily and here’s why: I could see myself being so torn up and comatose and not being able to leave the house but that is me, not to mention the pressure of the obvious scrutiny.

—-

(ETA: FTR I haven’t been on Social Media at all, so I have no idea who the players are and what is supposedly going on on the back end, moo.)

 

[Alathea]

Alright, don’t kill me but not helping with the yellow ribbons doesn’t bother me necessarily and here’s why: I could see myself being so torn up and comatose and not being able to leave the house but that is me, not to mention the obvious scrutiny.

You do make a good point there. We don't know what's what. She may also be in danger somehow, particularly as a witness, if there's much more to this that we don't know (which seems to be the case lately - so many twists we never expected!).

 

[Zella]

Alright, don’t kill me but not helping with the yellow ribbons doesn’t bother me necessarily and here’s why: I could see myself being so torn up and comatose and not being able to leave the house but that is me, not to mention the pressure of the obvious scrutiny.

—-

(ETA: FTR I haven’t been on Social Media at all, so I have no idea who the players are and what is supposedly going on on the back end, moo.)

Agreed! I have no clue what the friend's deal is--she may be involved, she may not--but being connected to a case like this in any way, even as someone who is an entirely innocent witness, would be awful because you're damned if you do, damned if you're don't. I honestly probably wouldn't have shown up for that either.

 

[Alathea]

I would doubt any of us on WS takes ANYTHING at face value! I also am well aware that we do not know everything that LE knows, nor should we. But here are the two ways I see this friend's story: It is not true and LE knew it was not true (like you said via pinging or another coworker contradicting friend's story) and knew if they made that public then we are all over them to go after the friend and her story. They were already doing that and did not need our two cents. The other way I see the friend's story is that it is true and LE confirmed it via pinging and TR video and other friends and bar patrons and pictures on social media. So there were either the two guys described by the friend or they developed intel that she left the TR with someone else. So they are all over media asking "Did you see these guys?" Without that, I feel they are showing their hand that we did not need to look for anyone, they were already on the trail of who they thought knew what happened. I have nothing more than goodwill toward witnesses. I assume everyone is telling the truth. But as the pieces come together we all have to judge what we believe rings true. Believing what someone says just because they say it does not make it true. IMHO

Agreed - good points - we are thinking along the same lines. And a potential witness's words are not "evidence" until they are sworn statements, anyway.

There is another possibility (that I don't feel as strongly about but need to keep an open mind): they DO know she left with 2 guys, LE knows who they are already and have them in their sights (or, can't find them!) but they don't want to "play their hand" that way and give it away that they know, either. Or, those 2 guys led LE to someone else who they know was responsible. Again, not my #1 theory, but need to keep an open mind.

There's also the possibility that it's someone else whom the co-worker knows... whom she's protecting, or was initially protecting.

And then there's the other possibility that we have no clue yet at all, because there is a whole other thing behind the scenes that we don't know about at all yet..... whew!!

 

[katydid23]

What happened to my old websleuths? Where is magnolia, panthera, steelydan, etc.? This is crazy. We have a young lady found dead buried in shallow grave and all we are talking about is how her so called friends didn't respond to a fake text?

You must have missed a lot of posts because there have been a lot of discussions besides the text, IMO.

 

[Artis]

I hate to sound nitpicky, but...

There is confirmation she was at the bar. I take it from your post, you choose not to believe it.
There is confirmation she left with 2 people. Again, I take it you choose not to believe it.
There is confirmation she texted a friend. Again, you choose not to believe it and that is absolutely your right. My being nitpicky is over the description of there being no confirmation.
The only evidence I'm aware of that the friend is female is in the pronouns used when discussing the friend.

Couldn't agree more with the rest of what you say though.

Statements by the friend are not confirmation. I'm sure the investigators have tried to confirm the statements with statements from other eye witnesses and video. We have no indication that they've been able to confirm anything the friend claimed. On the alleged text, they would get phone records and ping info. Just because people say something doesn't make it true. There may have no text or P's killer may sent the text. We'll soon find out.

 

[margarita25]

There are possibly traffic cameras which may have captured people coming and going. Same old stuff. We will soon find out.

ETA: I anticipate a quick arrest(s) in this case. Who knows. Never assume anything here, that’s for sure.