Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #2

[Speculaytor]

She claimed she checked that it contained dummies that morning. But dummies and live ammunition look similar to each other. So one needs to be careful and live ammunition shouldn't be on set. But sheriff says there was. And how could she not know there was live ammunition on the set?

Yes, a lot of questions still to be answered.

 

[Luna20]

In my opinion, it's much more likely she loaded it with live round by mistake. Live rounds look similar to dummies. Despite her claiming live rounds were not on the set, sheriff says they were. If live rounds and dummy rounds were in close proximity to each other, a live round could have been loaded by mistake. Which is why live rounds should never be on the set.

I guess next we might expect it will be that wherever the ammo was purchased from are the ones who put live in the same box with dummies.

 

[Speculaytor]

In my opinion, it's much more likely she loaded it with live round by mistake. Live rounds look similar to dummies. Despite her claiming live rounds were not on the set, sheriff says they were. If live rounds and dummy rounds were in close proximity to each other, a live round could have been loaded by mistake. Which is why live rounds should never be on the set.

I would be more likely to believe the live round was in when she checked it as there is a bullet on the end of a casing for a real bullet, not on a dummy bullet, right? I think she would have seen the bullet if she loaded it. IDK though.

 

[10ofRods]

HGR's in big, big trouble. IMO

But she was acting in her agency as an employee. Hmm. It gets complicated. If criminal charges are brought against someone who is acting as an employee, then the hiring entity may also get criminal charges (or sometimes, just the company hiring will get the charges).

These are some of the most complicated and peculiar cases in state law. Don't now NM law, but think it's not much different than CA or OR.

 

[Kiranerys]

I've been trying to catch up with the posts in the thread before I posted but this is just what I've been wanting to say. I agree with most of this chain of statements but if I has stated them, I would change part of the comments to say that I don't think anyone could convince me that I should point a gun at a person and pull the trigger - even if they showed me it was empty/safe/whatever and I had checked it myself to personally confirm it. Pointing it at a camera and firing, yeah maybe - as long as it was a remote camera & no person was behind it. I just don't think I could do that unless the person on the other end of that gun was trying to kill me or others around me. I just don't think I could. Instead, I would be asking for safety measures to be put in place. Anyone in the intended (mock) like of fire should be moved/removed, and/or bullet-proof safety barriers would need to be put in place. ...and if putting those measures in place took to long for those in charge, ta he11 with those im charge. I would still also like to know why they had no access to a remote camera and why not even one safety barrier had been put in place on this set. The amount of carelessness & cost-cutting measures that I think I'm hearing about on this set just boggles my mind.

An actor from the production has stated that the camera crew were protected behind screens. I am not clear on why Halyna and the director weren't behind them at the time of the shooting unless they weren't required to be so during a rehearsal, nothing is really clear at all at this point apart from the fact that something went terribly,tragically wrong.

 

[Luna20]

Earlier in the thread there was a link that said the Prop Master, Armorer, and some others had a key to the safe but it hasn't been determined who those "others" are. (Sorry I don't have time to search previous posts for the link right now)
I think this is probably a crucial part of the investigation.
Who all had access to the weapons and ammo?
ETA: another safety protocol broken that muddies this case and makes it hard for LE to narrow down accountability.

Iirc it is Sarah Zachry, the prop master who also had access. I haven’t seen any comments from her.

 

[jjenny]

I would be more likely to believe the live round was in when she checked it as there is a bullet on the end of a casing for a real bullet, not on a dummy bullet, right? I think she would have seen the bullet if she loaded it. IDK though.

Dummy has a bullet. It's designed to look like live ammo. It's a blank that doesn't have a bullet. Dummies are inert and don't make noise, and they don't fire a bullet. Blanks, on the other hand, make noise but don't fire a bullet. Gun was loaded with dummies, not blanks. And one live ammo.

 

[jjenny]

An actor from the production has stated that the camera crew were protected behind screens. I am not clear on why Halyna and the director weren't behind them at the time of the shooting unless they weren't required to be so during a rehearsal, nothing is really clear at all at this point apart from the fact that something went terribly,tragically wrong.

Protected behind screens when blanks were being shot. There was no expectations of blanks being shot during a rehearsal. So cameras were presumed to be safe.

 

[whitelilac]

But she was acting in her agency as an employee. Hmm. It gets complicated. If criminal charges are brought against someone who is acting as an employee, then the hiring entity may also get criminal charges (or sometimes, just the company hiring will get the charges).

These are some of the most complicated and peculiar cases in state law. Don't now NM law, but think it's not much different than CA or OR.

Yes, the source....whoever made the decision to hire an inexperienced armorer, to cut corners. But she could have rejected the job, quit, or refused to be rushed and compromised in that particularly responsible position. As it was 6 other crew members walked off due to the poor safety protocols and the toxic environment. Given her lack of supervision of the weapons, which was her job as an armorer, she IMO is also liable.

 

[Cryptic]

Or do you think it was maybe because the AD got impatient and just grabbed the gun from her in the middle of her safety review/ inspection as she handed it off to him?

To my knowledge, the armorer has not advanced that possibility herself.

Accordingly, I think it is possible, just not very likely.

The fact that another set had also noted safety concerns with her then reduces the possibility further,

 

[jjenny]

No it wouldn't need to be unloaded to check to see if it had dummies. just opening the loading gate would reveal the back of the casing. you could see there is or is not a primer in the cartridge, then just rotate the cylinder to check each chamber. It would take 10 seconds.

AD claimed the way they differentiated dummies from real ammo is the hole on dummy's side.
One would not be able to see the hole without unloading the gun.

 

[shotgun09]

Was there any actual filming completed that day? From my understanding, it was the film/camera crew who were upset and walked off the set in the am, and that this created a huge delay ( hours?) in the schedule. Tensions were high? Delay in schedule. Cost$ Then, we jump to lunchtime, and the questionable security of the guns and ammo. But, I did not hear/read of any actual filming taking place if ever on that day. Obviously, Ms Hutchins was there...but was there any filming completed prior to her death?

 

[ilovewings]

Put simply, this horrific case is a multi-faceted cluster fluck- there is no other way to say it. OMG- everything that could possibly go wrong, went wrong: a perfect storm of events that ultimately led to the horrible shooting death of this woman. When the lawsuits hit, we are going to see finger pointing ( attorneys love that). What happens in cases like that is that the victim gets lost while defendants are running for cover and covering their respective butts. It will not be a pretty site.

 

[WillieMac]

Her statement of defense has implications. If she doesn’t know how live ammo got into the gun implies she took her eyes off the guns.

She wasn't the only one with access to where the guns were locked up when stored. Also, Covid protocols required the guns to be kept on a cart outside while filming was done inside. If the producers & directors weren't in a hurry to film, perhaps she could have walked each gun from the locked safe (assuming it was a safe where they were stored when locked up) to the actor, but even then there could easily have been scenes where she couldn't carry all of the guns needed on a set by herself in one trip from the safe to the set. To imply guilt simply because a gun may have left her sight for a short period of time is (to me) not realistic. Also, the fact that others had the ability to access the guns while locked up brings even more questions into play in my mind. Regardless though, any gun being taken on to the set should have been repeatedly checked from what I'm understanding their safety protocols were. The question of where the fully live rounds came from is a big one (& the fact that LE refused to say whether or not live rounds were found on her raises a flag to me) but I think there's also a big question that needs to be asked around why the AD didn't witness each chamber in the cylinder while he & her were examining the gun prior to taking it on the set. Someone hurried thru that safety check.

 

[Speculaytor]

In my opinion, it's much more likely she loaded it with live round by mistake. Live rounds look similar to dummies. Despite her claiming live rounds were not on the set, sheriff says they were. If live rounds and dummy rounds were in close proximity to each other, a live round could have been loaded by mistake. Which is why live rounds should never be on the set.

I would be more likely to believe the live round was in when she checked it as there is a bullet on the end of a casing for a real bullet, not on a dummy bullet, right? I think she would have seen the bullet if she loaded it. IDK though.

Dummy has a bullet. It's designed to look like live ammo. It's a blank that doesn't have a bullet. Dummies are inert and don't make noise, and they don't fire a bullet. Blanks, on the other hand, make noise but don't fire a bullet. Gun was loaded with dummies, not blanks. And one live ammo.

But aren't the dummy bullets bright orange, or neon, and pretty obviously a dummy? Am I right? IRDK? I would hope an Armorer loading a gun would recognize a dummy from a real bullet. Now, if she only opened the revolver and saw the rounds already IN the gun, I understand.

 

[RANCH]

AD claimed the way they differentiated dummies from real ammo is the hole on dummy's side.
One would not be able to see the hole without unloading the gun.

Do you agree that the primer in the base on the cartridge is what makes a gun fire? No live primer no bang. No live primer equals a "cold" or safe gun.

A hole in the side of a cartridge does not make the round safe. It could still be a "hot" round that will go bang if the trigger is pulled. JMO.

 

[Speculaytor]

Who buys the dummy/ blanks ammo for the set? Does the Armorer? Because if the Armorer believes there is no live ammo on the set, and dummy bullets look like live ammo, then how can she be held responsible if she did not know she was handling live ammo? And if she should know the difference, then I doubt she would have been the one to load the live ammo into the gun. Did someone bring live ammo onto a set where there was not supposed to be any?

 

[mickey2942]

The first thing to determine is if this was an accident, with several people who dropped the ball. Or someone had wanted to practice with the gun, and accidentally left a bullet in the gun. The fact that the security was so lax as to leave guns out on a table is one problem, and so many people had access to the control area..it was a joke.

Or, if this was deliberate malfeasance, did someone deliberately place live ammunition in the same area as the dummy bullets? Did someone deliberately load the weapon in question with a real bullet, on purpose?

We know that there were employment issues, union issues...

 

[jjenny]

I would be more likely to believe the live round was in when she checked it as there is a bullet on the end of a casing for a real bullet, not on a dummy bullet, right? I think she would have seen the bullet if she loaded it. IDK though.

But aren't the dummy bullets bright orange, or neon, and pretty obviously a dummy? Am I right? IRDK? I would hope an Armorer loading a gun would recognize a dummy from a real bullet. Now, if she only opened the revolver and saw the rounds already IN the gun, I understand.

No, that's incorrect. The whole point of a dummy on a movie set is that they look realistic enough for a close up. Dummies could be of a different color, but in this case, they weren't. AD said dummies had a hole on the side to distinguish them from real bullets.

 

[jjenny]

Do you agree that the primer in the base on the cartridge is what makes a gun fire? No live primer no bang. No live primer equals a "cold" or safe gun.

A hole in the side of a cartridge does not make the round safe. It could still be a "hot" round that will go bang if the trigger is pulled. JMO.

AD didn't say they looked at the primer, he claimed dummies had a hole on the side and that's how they knew they were dummies.