Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021

[jjenny]

'Rust': Armorers and Propmasters Talk On-Set Gun Safety, What Happened - Variety

Good article. Basically, actors are not expected to check guns. It should have been done by the armorer and in this case also by AD who declared the gun to be "cold."

"Added Corrie: “The reason that Alec Baldwin did not check the firearm is because… he’s not given time to do so. It is an understood that when the firearm is handed to him it is in proper working order. And that is the responsibility of the armorer prop master, whoever is in control of the firearms on set. So all the armchair quarterbacks that are sitting back and saying well, Alec Baldwin is responsible because he didn’t check the gun, that’s not the procedure that’s used on set — so stop with that. Ultimately it is the responsibility of the armorer or prop master or whomever is on set in control and responsible for those firearms being available and made ready for each scene.”"

'Rust': Armorers and Propmasters Talk On-Set Gun Safety, What Happened - Variety

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I don't believe anyone has give a comprehensive explanation as to why there was live ammunition on that particular set.

As a side note, the various movie industry sources cited by forum members seems to paint a mixed modern art picture regarding live ammunition on movie sets:

"Live ammunition never used on sets I've worked- dont know about others" - to- "Live ammunition used routinely for effects- with a rigorous s.o.p" - to - "Live ammunition not usually used on sets, but if it were to be needed..... ."

My guess is that the live ammunition was there for effects as none of the participants have categorically stated that it should never have been there.

I missed the links that said live ammunition is used on film sets for effects.

I'm confused as to why this would be true. What kind of effects require the use of deadly live ammunition on a film set?

 

[jjenny]

I missed the links that said live ammunition is used on film sets for effects.

I'm confused as to why this would be true. What kind of effects require the use of deadly live ammunition on a film set?

In a movie lingo, live ammunition could mean "blanks." And that's just confusing, because in a real world it means actual bullets.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Merrick said trained armorers teach the “three golden rules” of gun handling, and it’s the same on a range as it is on a movie set: “You always treat a gun as if it’s loaded. You never point a gun at another person, and you always keep your finger off the trigger until you’re absolutely ready to fire.

If Alec Baldwin had followed these basic gun safety rules then this tragic and deadly shooting would not have happened.

'Rust': Armorers and Propmasters Talk On-Set Gun Safety, What Happened - Variety

 

[JudgeJoe]

RS&BBM

I also see a scenario with lack of respect for the Armorer, and for the ownership of prop weapons.

Did the rest of the crew just run roughshod over The Armorer because she was young and less experienced and a woman they could intimidate?

Or did she allow this behaviour because she didn't know how to or want to be the one to shut all the goofing around with real weapons?

YES! This! What female wasn’t blown off, disrespected or intimidated/ pressured in their young & early career days?! She was surrounded by some high-profile, established industry peeps for sure. I’m NOT saying this is an excuse for sliding on the rules & safety protocols. But if there were misogynistic comments & disregard for her authority as armorer, you can bet it’ll be considered. Imo.

 

[shotgun09]

If Alec Baldwin had followed these basic gun safety rules then this tragic and deadly shooting would not have happened.

'Rust': Armorers and Propmasters Talk On-Set Gun Safety, What Happened - Variety

Wow! From your linked article:

"Merrick said trained armorers teach the “three golden rules” of gun handling, and it’s the same on a range as it is on a movie set: “You always treat a gun as if it’s loaded. You never point a gun at another person, and you always keep your finger off the trigger until you’re absolutely ready to fire. In a scene like happened in New Mexico, I can’t speak to all of it until the investigation comes through. But what’s evident is that a gun was pointed at a person and the trigger was pulled. And there was somehow a live round involved in the filming, which should never happen.”

 

[Deleted member 39678]

In a movie lingo, live ammunition could mean "blanks." And that's just confusing, because in a real world it means actual bullets.

In actual terms a bullet is only part of the ammunition. It is the projectile. A bullet by itself is totally harmless. JMO.

I've never heard of blanks being called live ammunition. I guess someone who says a misfire is a gun that actually has been fired may say that. It's an incorrect usage of the term IMO.

JMO.

 

[Cryptic]

I missed the links that said live ammunition is used on film sets for effects.

I'm confused as to why this would be true. What kind of effects require the use of deadly live ammunition on a film set?

It would take too long for me go through the posts for the cited sources that I summarized. But here are some new sources regarding live ammunition and movie sets:

State lawmaker calls for ban on live ammunition and real guns on California movie sets ( no need to ban something if it is not practiced)

Gun safety on movie sets? States mostly follow guidelines set by studios, unions (New York does not specifically ban live ammo)

This quote from a set armorer really sums up the use of live ammunition on sets:

"Live ammunition is never usually used on film sets and Baldwin's shooting and killing of a cinematographer a 'total mystery', " a Hollywood armorer has said.
Why WAS a gun on Alec Baldwin movie set loaded with live ammo? Mystery over deadly chain of events | Daily Mail Online

My Translation: Live ammunition is not used on film sets- except on the occasions when it is used..... .

 

[Gardenista]

One of Alec Baldwin's next projects, 'Flint,' is postponed after 'Rust' shooting

 

[shotgun09]

More from the above article, and BBM:

Corrie noted that the procedure for firearms on set is that normally an actor, until action, will be holding a stunt gun, one that cannot fire and is not made to fire, and cannot in any way be made to fire without severe modification. “At the moment that they’re about to shoot, the director will call cut, and then that stunt gun will be taken from them and an armorer will hand them a loaded gun loaded with blanks, and then they will begin filming again. The actor will shoot the firearm, director will say cut when that scene is done, and then that firearm is immediately taken from them by the armorer. This is a safety procedure that’s been in place for a very long time, and ideally if that happens then everything remains safe. The weapon is very strictly controlled and there are no accidents.”
'Rust': Armorers and Propmasters Talk On-Set Gun Safety, What Happened - Variety

From the earlier reports, AB was said to have 'been practicing' his cross body draw. Why...if he was just practicing...and they were not filming at the moment, did he not have a fake..non lethal stunt gun?

ETA: added link

 

[Deleted member 39678]

This image shows the components of "live ammunition" or cartridge.

4 Components of a Cartridge

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

If Alec Baldwin had followed these basic gun safety rules then this tragic and deadly shooting would not have happened.

'Rust': Armorers and Propmasters Talk On-Set Gun Safety, What Happened - Variety

Ditto, and in this situation Alec was not going from a prop to a “real gun” for filming, he was rehearsing. I am not mitigating the responsibility of the others, it’s hard to wrap my mind around how this happened, so many people failed who were there to specifically keep the set safe. That includes making sure that the armourer was doing her job properly and the crew was not taking target practice with live ammo with the prop gun. I have a hard time letting go of the individual responsibility when the gun is in your hand but I understand what this article is stating. Why was he handed the real gun then if it was just practice? If they can’t handle properly checking a gun because too much is going on then they should not have any type of dangerous weapons being used on set. As others have stated, with today’s technology it’s not necessary. It’s sounding more and more to me like a negligent homicide . MOO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

It would take too long for me go through the posts for the cited sources that I summarized. But here are some new sources regarding live ammunition and movie sets:

State lawmaker calls for ban on live ammunition and real guns on California movie sets ( no need to ban something if it is not practiced)

Gun safety on movie sets? States mostly follow guidelines set by studios, unions (New York does not specifically ban live ammo)

This quote from a set armorer really sums up the use of live ammunition on sets:

"Live ammunition is never usually used on film sets and Baldwin's shooting and killing of a cinematographer a 'total mystery', " a Hollywood armorer has said.
Why WAS a gun on Alec Baldwin movie set loaded with live ammo? Mystery over deadly chain of events | Daily Mail Online

My Translation: Live ammunition is not used on film sets- except on the occasions when it is used..... .

So live ammunition is not used on film sets for effects. Thanks.

 

[jjenny]

More from the above article, and BBM:

Corrie noted that the procedure for firearms on set is that normally an actor, until action, will be holding a stunt gun, one that cannot fire and is not made to fire, and cannot in any way be made to fire without severe modification. “At the moment that they’re about to shoot, the director will call cut, and then that stunt gun will be taken from them and an armorer will hand them a loaded gun loaded with blanks, and then they will begin filming again. The actor will shoot the firearm, director will say cut when that scene is done, and then that firearm is immediately taken from them by the armorer. This is a safety procedure that’s been in place for a very long time, and ideally if that happens then everything remains safe. The weapon is very strictly controlled and there are no accidents.”
'Rust': Armorers and Propmasters Talk On-Set Gun Safety, What Happened - Variety

From the earlier reports, AB was said to have 'been practicing' his cross body draw. Why...if he was just practicing...and they were not filming at the moment, did he not have a fake..non lethal stunt gun?

ETA: added link

They were using what was supposed to have been an un-loaded gun for practicing. Which if actually unloaded would have been perfectly safe, because it can't fire anything if unloaded.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Guns are “not really problematic unless put in the wrong hands,” the rookie armorer on the set of Alec Baldwin’s ill-fated movie “Rust” said last month on a podcast.

“I think the best part about my job is just showing people who are normally kind of freaked out by guns, like, how safe they can be,” the armorer, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, said on the Voices of the Westpodcast. “A lot of it, for me, is just being able to show the world, like, you know, guns are awesome.”

- was in charge of weapons on the set of “Rust.”
- As the armorer on the set, Gutierrez-Reed was supposed to make sure that the guns being used in “Rust” were secure and safe to use.
- Gutierrez-Reed “set up” the prop gun.

Armorer on Baldwin set said guns are dangerous only 'in the wrong hands'

I wonder who, involved in the production of Rust, has worked with her father before. Perhaps this was a "who ya know" and not a "what ya know" hire. Or maybe the father's reputation is so impeccable that they thought the apple couldn't fall far from the tree.

 

[everybodhi]

Are Production companies required to follow OSHA regulations? Are they state run, or Federally run?

ALL employers, large and small, are required to follow OSHA regulations.
OSHA can impose civil penalties for workplace accidents even if LE determines that no crime occurred.
ETA their fines are minor.
$84,000 for Lee’s death in The Crow, but the fine was later reduced to $55,000.
After 'Rust' shooting, a look at other notable set accidents

Statement by OHSB:

“On Thursday evening, the New Mexico Occupational Health and Safety Bureau (OHSB) learned through the New Mexico Film Office of a workplace fatality and an injury to a second person that occurred during filming on a movie set in Santa Fe County.
The production company reported the fatality and injury to OHSB last night, in accordance with workplace safety laws. OHSB is investigating the incident in coordination with law enforcement, the employer, and employees. No additional information will be released at this time, pending completion of the investigation.”
‘Rust’ Shooting Under Investigation By New Mexico Occupational Health & Safety Bureau

 

[Lux et Veritas]

"The assistant director on the movie “Rust,” who handed a prop gun to Alec Baldwin before the fatal shooting last week, was previously fired from a film production after a gun incident injured a crew member, the movie’s production company told CNN."
Live updates: 'Rust' movie shooting and Alec Baldwin (cnn.com)

So, just like dirty, dangerous priests and dirty, dangerous cops - dirty, dangerous Assistant Directors just move on down the road to their next gig. They suffer little to no genuine consequences and are free to further spread misery, destruction and too often death.

Those in power who do not stop them are complicit.

 

[WillieMac]

Good article. Basically, actors are not expected to check guns. It should have been done by the armorer and in this case also by AD who declared the gun to be "cold."

"Added Corrie: “The reason that Alec Baldwin did not check the firearm is because… he’s not given time to do so. It is an understood that when the firearm is handed to him it is in proper working order. And that is the responsibility of the armorer prop master, whoever is in control of the firearms on set. So all the armchair quarterbacks that are sitting back and saying well, Alec Baldwin is responsible because he didn’t check the gun, that’s not the procedure that’s used on set — so stop with that. Ultimately it is the responsibility of the armorer or prop master or whomever is on set in control and responsible for those firearms being available and made ready for each scene.”"

'Rust': Armorers and Propmasters Talk On-Set Gun Safety, What Happened - Variety

Didn't have time? It takes 2 seconds - maybe less to verify that that revolver is unloaded. 2 seconds to ensure the safety of his crew, co-workers, and everyone on that set. 2 seconds. Didn't have time?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

ALL employers, large and small, are required to follow OSHA regulations.
OSHA can impose civil penalties for workplace accidents even if LE determines that no crime occurred.
ETA their fines are minor.
$84,000 for Lee’s death in The Crow, but the fine was later reduced to $55,000.
After 'Rust' shooting, a look at other notable set accidents

Statement by OHSB:

“On Thursday evening, the New Mexico Occupational Health and Safety Bureau (OHSB) learned through the New Mexico Film Office of a workplace fatality and an injury to a second person that occurred during filming on a movie set in Santa Fe County.
The production company reported the fatality and injury to OHSB last night, in accordance with workplace safety laws. OHSB is investigating the incident in coordination with law enforcement, the employer, and employees. No additional information will be released at this time, pending completion of the investigation.”
‘Rust’ Shooting Under Investigation By New Mexico Occupational Health & Safety Bureau

Thanks for this info. I was thinking about this subject yesterday.

Unless the fines are substantial the film industry will not take it seriously. Liability insurance increases may have a more profound effect on film set firearm safety in the future. JMO.

 

[mickey2942]

I guess that I can't wrap my head around holding a GUN as a PROP. This was not some plastic toy gun. Alec Baldwin had a GUN in his hand.

Where I come from, the person holding a GUN, is the one who is supposed to check it.

I often manage large amounts of money. Someone hands me $2,500, I don't just take their word for it, I count it. I have held up work, to count $15,000. With people glaring at me, the entire time. Not my problem. I guess that I am just not as trusting as Alec Baldwin that other people do their job correctly.