Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #3

[BeckyF]

Alec Baldwin discharged gun in incident that killed cinematographer

A helicopter transported cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, 42, to the University of New Mexico Hospital, where she was pronounced dead by medical personnel, according to the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office. The director, 42-year-old Joel Souza, was transported via ambulance to Christus St. Vincent’s hospital and is receiving emergency treatment for his injuries.

"According to investigators it appears that the scene being filmed involved the use of a prop firearm when it was discharged," a release from the sheriff's office said. "Detectives are investigating how and what type of projectile was discharged."

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Thread #2

 

[jjenny]

So he didn't know that the gun was loaded with dummy rounds. He just assumed that.

Why did he call out "cold" gun when it was loaded with live primers? Blanks would look just like dummy rounds with live primers when loaded in the gun. He should have called out "hot" gun on set. JMO.

Like I said, the expectation was for gun to be loaded with dummies. As such it was supposed to have been a cold gun. Even if he didn't check it properly, he declared it cold. We don't know if the primers on these dummies were live. That hasn't been reported anywhere.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I wonder if everyone on set was fingerprinted, or if that would even be legally allowable (unless voluntarily).

Should any fingerprints from set members or set visitors be on the gun - besides the people that should have been touching it (prop master, armourer, AD, actor)?

 

[jjenny]

I wonder if everyone on set was fingerprinted, or if that would even be legally allowable (unless voluntarily).

Should any fingerprints from set members or set visitors be on the gun - besides the people that should have been touching it (prop master, armourer, AD, actor)?

If they found any unknown fingerprints on the gun, I presume a search warrant can be issued.

 

[RANCH]

Like I said, the expectation was for gun to be loaded with dummies. As such it was supposed to have been a cold gun. Even if he didn't check it properly, he declared it cold.

Only if the dummy rounds have fired or punched primers. Unless you're going with the "false" primers that I can't find any info on or a reason for them to be used. JMO.

 

[Gardenista]

This poor guy.

Joel Souza, 'Rust' director shot by Alec Baldwin, seen outside

 

[Caroclaud]

Joel Souza- Pap walk?

 

[Warwick1991]

The bullet that killed the cinematographer was not from a dummy round with live primer. When AD had armorer to open the gun after the shooting, the gun had four dummies with holes on the sides and a spend casing without a hole (from a live ammo, that's where the bullet came from).

Dummy rounds do not have holes in the sides. This has been frequently repeated on this thread. I can’t find a single manufacturer that makes dummy rounds with holes in the sides. They often have large holes at the back of the round, in the location where a primer would normally be. They are often black or orange, and visually differ from live ammunition. There is a type of dummy with no hole in it known as a “snap cap,” which is used for practicing without live ammunition. These have a brass back that can appear similar to regular ammunition, but they have a plastic body with a spring inside.

Blanks are similar to live ammunition in that they have primers and gunpowder. Unless they were removed from the cylinder, it would be difficult to tell them apart from regular live ammunition.

 

[Luna20]

Is there a particular vehicle that is used to transport ammo or is it the armorers personal car that carries a safe?

 

[shotgun09]

Joel Souza- Pap walk?

What is a Pap walk?

 

[jjenny]

Dummy rounds do not have holes in the sides. This has been frequently repeated on this thread. I can’t find a single manufacturer that makes dummy rounds with holes in the sides. They often have large holes at the back of the round, in the location where a primer would normally be. They are often black or orange, and visually differ from live ammunition. There is a type of dummy with no hole in it known as a “snap cap,” which is used for practicing without live ammunition. These have a brass back that can appear similar to regular ammunition, but they have a plastic body with a spring inside.

Blanks are similar to live ammunition in that they have primers and gunpowder. Unless they were removed from the cylinder, it would be difficult to tell them apart from regular live ammunition.

I posted numerous links to photos of dummies with hole on the sides. And if it has been repeated, it's because AD told while interviewed that the way they could tell dummies from live ammo are the holes on the side of dummies.
50 Cal. DUMMY AMMO drilled holes (armynavyoutdoors.com)

 

[jjenny]

Here is how AD is describing what was found in the gun after the shooting. The one without the hole was presumably the casing from a live ammo that fired the bullet.

"Halls said he could only remember seeing at least four “dummy” casings with a hole on the side and one without a hole, the warrant reveals. He said this round did not have a “cap” on it and was just the casing."
Alec Baldwin given unchecked gun on 'Rust' set, warrant says (cnbc.com)

 

[steeltowngirl]

It may not matter all that much whether the dummies could be distinguished from live ammo.

The AD Halls admitted he didn’t even fully check.
Can’t misidentify what isn’t even checked.

 

[jjenny]

Is there a particular vehicle that is used to transport ammo or is it the armorers personal car that carries a safe?

Ammo was left on the cart. It wasn't in the safe. Guns were put in the safe when not in use, but apparently not ammo.

 

[Luna20]

It may not matter all that much whether the dummies could be distinguished from live ammo.

The AD Halls admitted he didn’t even fully check.
Can’t misidentify what isn’t even checked.

Agree. I think it’s going to come down to how the ammo made its way on to the set, in the gun and why an armorer with little and questionable experience was hired.

She can say she didn’t put it in the gun but that means she left the gun unattended. No way around that.

ETA: Halls already admitted his negligence, whereas she is trying to place her responsibility elsewhere.

 

[Warwick1991]

I posted numerous links to photos of dummies with hole on the sides. And if it has been repeated, it's because AD told while interviewed that the way they could tell dummies from live ammo are the holes on the side of dummies.
50 Cal. DUMMY AMMO drilled holes (armynavyoutdoors.com)

Dummies like the ones I described are used for training and practice. They are made to look different from real ammunition for safety reasons. The dummy ammo in your link is made from components of a live round. These are collectors items only, and they are not used for training, because mistaken identification would be a real problem. If rounds of the type you linked to were used on a film set, that would be an extremely dangerous practice. Once loaded in a firearm, they could not be distinguished from a live round unless they were removed.

 

[Gardenista]

Is there a particular vehicle that is used to transport ammo or is it the armorers personal car that carries a safe?

The safe was in the prop truck. The truck was described in the affidavit as a Marathon truck body which I googled and they look to be pretty big trucks.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Ammo was left on the cart. It wasn't in the safe. Guns were put in the safe when not in use, but apparently not ammo.

So it is possible the gun wasn’t used in plinking or anywhere else, if it was kept locked up. If there were live rounds mixed in with the prop ammo on the cart, whoever loaded the gun could have inadvertently picked up a live round.

The problem is, who - other than the armorer - should be loading and unloading the gun? Who was the last person to load the gun that killed Halyna?

 

[jjenny]

So it is possible the gun wasn’t used in plinking or anywhere else, if it was kept locked up. If there were live rounds mixed in with the prop ammo on the cart, whoever loaded the gun could have inadvertently picked up a live round.

The problem is, who - other than the armorer - should be loading and unloading the gun? Who was the last person to load the gun that killed Halyna?

Armorer would be the one loading and unloading the gun. That's her job.

 

[jjenny]

Dummies like the ones I described are used for training and practice. They are made to look different from real ammunition for safety reasons. The dummy ammo in your link is made from components of a live round. These are collectors items only, and they are not used for training, because mistaken identification would be a real problem. If rounds of the type you linked to were used on a film set, that would be an extremely dangerous practice. Once loaded in a firearm, they could not be distinguished from a live round unless they were removed.

I already posted a link of AD Halls describing that the dummies in the gun had holes on their side. So those would be the kind of dummies they had on the set of Rust.