Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #4

[jjenny]

They don't create recoil or emit smoke. Those that do would be blanks.

Good point. I've seen other articles confusing blanks and dummies.

 

[jsiar]

I don't think he usually does anything on the set before using a gun that he didn't do in this case. It's not expected for the actor to unload the gun and inspect each round.

Maybe I’m getting confused in all the finger pointing. I thought HGR said she wasn’t even around when the AD took the gun from the tray. So AB must be used to taking the gun from the AD without witnessing the armourer around the set. That’s a lot of trust, more than I’d have but if that is standard procedure, so be it.

 

[Cool Cats]

I think the lighting director said it perfectly, it was a sloppy approach to safety.

ADD

Lane Luper, the A-camera first assistant:

"safety procedures were fast and loose”

Santa Fe County Sheriff Adan Mendoza:

"there was some complacency in how weapons were handled on the set"

Veteran prop master Neal W. Zoromski:

"you never have a prop assistant double as the armorer, those are two really big jobs"

Serge Svetnoy complaint of general negligence:

“Simply put, there was no reason for a live bullet to be placed in that .45 Colt revolver and to be present anywhere on the Rust set, and the presence of a bullet in a revolver posed a lethal threat to everyone in its vicinity,” it continues in blunt terms (read it here).

 

[wary]

What are you objecting to in the description of dummy rounds? They don't fire a projectile and don't make noise.

MOO

The puff of smoke and kickback, which I believe is unlike any dummy that’s been described in these threads.

And the article can’t be describing blanks, either, because they aren’t visually the same as live ammunition.

MOO

 

[Luna20]

Alec and Hilaria hit Central Park with the kids as Rust crew member sues embattled actor | Daily Mail Online

 

[grammieto5]

I thought taking pictures of minors were off limits. WOW! How does a person "carry on" after ending the life of another?

 

[katydid23]

I don't think he usually does anything on the set before using a gun that he didn't do in this case. It's not expected for the actor to unload the gun and inspect each round.

It is expected and required that the actor should WITNESS the AD or the Armorer check the gun, in his presence, if the actor is going to use the gun---especially when pointing the gun towards anyone or anything dangerous.

It is expected that the actor would be certain the gun was unloaded, by checking it himself OR by watching the person that handed it to him, checking the ammo in the gun and spinning it to make sure.

AB didn't do that. He just took the AD's word for it, even after there had been previous misfires days earlier, with the same gun, which had been declared 'cold.'

And then he broke other safety protocols by pointing it at 2 people who were within 2 feet of the muzzle, and using a real weapon during a rehearsal, and having his finger on the trigger while doing so.

 

[katydid23]

Maybe I’m getting confused in all the finger pointing. I thought HGR said she wasn’t even around when the AD took the gun from the tray. So AB must be used to taking the gun from the AD without witnessing the armourer around the set. That’s a lot of trust, more than I’d have but if that is standard procedure, so be it.

That^^^ is NOT standard procedure. Standard procedure is that the actor also takes responsibility for the gun being checked if he is going to be the one pointing it around on the set.

They did not follow standard safety protocol on that set.

If someone handed you a weapon to play around with, and they told you 'don't worry--it's not loaded'---wouldn't you check for yourself, if you didn't see that person checking the chamber?

 

[jsiar]

That^^^ is NOT standard procedure. Standard procedure is that the actor also takes responsibility for the gun being checked if he is going to be the one pointing it around on the set.

They did not follow standard safety protocol on that set.

If someone handed you a weapon to play around with, and they told you 'don't worry--it's not loaded'---wouldn't you check for yourself, if you didn't see that person checking the chamber?

Yeah that was what I was getting at with my original post (the one before the quoted one). I couldn’t imagine this was the standard procedure that AB would have routinely followed on all his other movies. I wondered why did he do it differently this time around. I guess we will never know.

 

[katydid23]

Yeah that was what I was getting at with my original post (the one before the quoted one). I couldn’t imagine this was the standard procedure that AB would have routinely followed on all his other movies. I wondered why did he do it differently this time around. I guess we will never know.

Here is my guess---and it is a somewhat educated guess as I have lived in Los Angeles for 50 years and have a lot of immediate family members who work in tv/film biz---

I think the difference is that he used to work on union, higher budget productions. So you can rest assured that when he worked on Law and Order and Mission Impossible, they had strict safety protocols set up for the entire crew. They would have an experienced armourer that followed all of the Industry Standards---and AB would have seen the weapon being checked, in front of him, to be certain it was cold.

But this low budget film was lax, chaotic, understaffed and the crew was cutting corners, because the producers wanted it done fast and dirty. JMO

 

[altojack]

@Gardenista going back to Thread 2, page 40, post 796

You mention HGRs pockets were checked and he (the Sheriff) won't confirm or deny they found live rounds in her pockets.

The link you supply won't open for me as I'm in the UK. Would it be possible to supply 10% of the coverage regarding this pocket search, what was said etc.
Please and thank you.

 

[jjenny]

They don't create recoil or emit smoke. Those that do would be blanks.

Good point. I've seen other articles confusing blanks and dummies.

It is expected and required that the actor should WITNESS the AD or the Armorer check the gun, in his presence, if the actor is going to use the gun---especially when pointing the gun towards anyone or anything dangerous.

It is expected that the actor would be certain the gun was unloaded, by checking it himself OR by watching the person that handed it to him, checking the ammo in the gun and spinning it to make sure.

AB didn't do that. He just took the AD's word for it, even after there had been previous misfires days earlier, with the same gun, which had been declared 'cold.'

And then he broke other safety protocols by pointing it at 2 people who were within 2 feet of the muzzle, and using a real weapon during a rehearsal, and having his finger on the trigger while doing so.

Expected and required by whom?

 

[jjenny]

I thought taking pictures of minors were off limits. WOW! How does a person "carry on" after ending the life of another?

Not sure what do you think people who accidentally killed someone should do instead of carrying on-jump off a bridge?

 

[katydid23]

Expected and required by whom?

Industry standards set by Unions and the Actors Guild. They have been posted several times in the thread. There is a standard safety protocol that actors are expected to adhere to when dealing with firearms on the set.

Movie Gun Services LLC

INDUSTRY WIDE LABOR-MANAGEMENT SAFETY GUIDELINES
Safety is No. 1
Recommendations for Safety with Firearms (Includes Restrictions on Use of Live Ammunition)

 

[jjenny]

Recommendation isn't the same as a requirement, is it? And if the armorer and AD don't examine the gun in front of the actor, would that be the fault of the actor?
Or armorer's and AD's?

 

[Kiranerys]

I thought taking pictures of minors were off limits. WOW! How does a person "carry on" after ending the life of another?

I guess they just do,one day at a time. What is the alternative?. He has 6 young kids, as harsh as it sounds,life has to go on. You can see the stress in his face,the bags under his eyes.
I know some people will say that is because he is worried about losing all his money,losing his career etc but I think it's OK to cut the guy a bit of slack here. Regardless of our opinion of him and wether we believe he was negligent or not,I think its OK to believe that the fact that ultimately it was him who ended a woman's life might weigh heavily on him. He can be all the things he is alleged to be (and we have all seen or read evidence of this over the years), he might not be the nicest person but he is still human.

 

[Kiranerys]

I may have missed it,and please forgive me if I have,but do we know yet if AB was on set in the church when HGR spun the cylinder for DH?, it looks to be a small building and I am wondering if its possible that AB could have seen HGR and DH supposedly checking the weapon,although not close enough to verify for himself,but enough for him to confident when DH handed him the "cold gun".
This could explain why the blind trust. Not an excuse but an explanation.

Of course if he wasn't there yet then it negates that theory!

 

[Gardenista]

@Gardenista going back to Thread 2, page 40, post 796

You mention HGRs pockets were checked and he (the Sheriff) won't confirm or deny they found live rounds in her pockets.

The link you supply won't open for me as I'm in the UK. Would it be possible to supply 10% of the coverage regarding this pocket search, what was said etc.
Please and thank you.

Here you go:

Mendoza confirmed Reed’s pockets were checked for live bullets but would not elaborate further.

“I’m not willing to confirm whether or not there were live bullets were found on her person. Again, there was live ammunition that we suspect that was found within the scene. And I’ll hold off from explaining exactly what those were found,” he said.

Sante Fe sheriff discusses ‘Rust’ film set shooting investigation

 

[Antimony]

When the trigger is pulled and the hammer drops on a dummy round, Nothing happens. Nothing at all. No bang, no puff and no recoil. Nothing. Their job is exactly that. Anything else and they would have a different name. Dummy rounds are like a plastic flower, Looks only. No smell, no texture, no allergies. Just to look at.

 

[GatorFL]

I don't think he usually does anything on the set before using a gun that he didn't do in this case. It's not expected for the actor to unload the gun and inspect each round.

Disagree.

If he was pointing the gun at his head, don't you think he would have inspected it? He was expected to use the same level of precaution to ensure nobody on the set would get injured. Baldwin did not do this.