Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #4

[wary]

I'm late to this thread, but why was he pointing and firing at them anyway?

MOO

That’s a very good question, and as far as I know, there’s just been a bunch of hand-waving and muttering ‘rehearsal,’ which hasn’t explained a thing.

MOO

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Just opening it wouldn't be enough. It would have to be unloaded and each round examined to make sure it's a dummy.

"Maybe Alec did that, I hope he did, but the problem is, dummies are tricky. Because they look like real bullets. They've got a tiny hole at the back where someone has taken the gunpowder out."
George Clooney says Alec Baldwin film set tragedy is 'insane and infuriating' - Mirror Online

Clooney said: “I don't know Alec that well. I've been watching the news and I have to say, they've got the bad guy, which is going to be the first AD.

George Clooney says Alec Baldwin film set tragedy is 'insane and infuriating' (
Image:
Publicity Picture)
"He may be a d**k, I don't know the guy at all, but I've been on sets for 40 years and the person that hands you the gun, the person that is responsible for the gun is either the prop person or the armour. Period.

 

[GatorFL]

George Clooney says Alec Baldwin film set tragedy is 'insane and infuriating'

Here's what Clooney does when he's handed a gun:

"Every single time I'm handed a gun on set, I look at it, I open it, I show it to the person I'm pointing it to, we show it to the crew, every single take you hand it back to the armour when you're done, and you do it again. Everyone does it.

Except Alec Baldwin.

 

[10ofRods]

It would be the fault of all of them.

The actor is the final responsibility because the weapon is placed in his hands. He has his finger on the trigger. So he has the ultimate responsibility in the end.

If he doesn't see, with his own eyes, the AD or armorer checking the weapon, right before it is handed too him, then it is his ultimate responsibility to check it himself or make them do it in his presence.

Safety protocols are requirements, not suggestions.

If someone handed you a gun and told it was unloaded and wanted you to point it at someone, would you take their word for it?

You'd make a very good plaintiff's lawyer. I can just hear these words coming out of someone's mouth next year. You are absolutely right. But there's plenty of blame to share. Actor is supposed to see the AD check the gun, and the AD is supposed to check the gun (in the presence of the armorer).

What I sure can't figure out is why, since HGR says she put 6 dummies in that gun, that there were only 3 bullets, two of them live. What happened??

 

[altojack]

Here you go:

Mendoza confirmed Reed’s pockets were checked for live bullets but would not elaborate further.

“I’m not willing to confirm whether or not there were live bullets were found on her person. Again, there was live ammunition that we suspect that was found within the scene. And I’ll hold off from explaining exactly what those were found,” he said.

Sante Fe sheriff discusses ‘Rust’ film set shooting investigation

Thanks for this. So, no comment from the sheriff as to whether HGR had live rounds in her pockets or not. I wish he had said no live rounds found on her person. I wouldn't be having suspicious thoughts right now.

Not willing to confirm sounds like he's hiding something from us.

 

[GatorFL]

You'd make a very good plaintiff's lawyer. I can just hear these words coming out of someone's mouth next year. You are absolutely right. But there's plenty of blame to share. Actor is supposed to see the AD check the gun, and the AD is supposed to check the gun (in the presence of the armorer).

What I sure can't figure out is why, since HGR says she put 6 dummies in that gun, that there were only 3 bullets, two of them live. What happened??

If she's being truthful, someone did something to the gun after she last touched it.

 

[jjenny]

You'd make a very good plaintiff's lawyer. I can just hear these words coming out of someone's mouth next year. You are absolutely right. But there's plenty of blame to share. Actor is supposed to see the AD check the gun, and the AD is supposed to check the gun (in the presence of the armorer).

What I sure can't figure out is why, since HGR says she put 6 dummies in that gun, that there were only 3 bullets, two of them live. What happened??

There weren't only 3 bullets, two of them live. Where did you hear that? AD said he saw at least four dummies and one casing from a live bullet (presumably the casing from which the bullet was fired).

 

[10ofRods]

There weren't only 3 bullets, two of them live. Where did you hear that? AD said he saw at least four dummies and one casing from a live bullet (presumably the casing from which the bullet was fired).

Yes, we've discussed that many times. There were 3 pieces of ammo, 2 of them purportedly live (per DH). I await what the FBI has to say about it. Perhaps there were three live. I don't trust DH's view on it, at this point. Hopefully he didn't remove the bullets and get his fingerprints all over the evidence. Should have been left as is.

AD has said different things in different reported stories. In this recent piece, DH says he didn't actually check the gun, so I'm not sure he's reliable:

Rust shooting: film’s assistant director admits gun was not thoroughly checked

And here's a quote from an early report, apparently based on a legally executed affadavit.

//
Halls purportedly told investigators that Guitierrez-Reed showed him the gun in question before rehearsal, the affidavit states. An earlier search warrant released in the case alleged that Halls handed the weapon to Baldwin and said "cold gun," to let the crew know that a firearm supposedly with no live rounds was being handled

"He could only remember seeing three rounds," according to the affidavit. "He advised he should have checked all of them, but didn't, and couldn't recall if she (Guitierrez-Reed) spun the drum."
//
Source:

Live bullet was in gun fired by Alec Baldwin in fatal movie-set shooting: Sheriff

And here again, three rounds:

‘Rust’ Movie Set Shooting: Key Developments From the Investigation

I do believe DH said initially that there was another live round in the gun and one dummy, but I don't trust him and will wait. At any rate, he said three rounds.

Where did you hear it was four? It seems clear at this point that only one round was fired. He says when he checked, it was three. That would be before the shooting, because he's trying to say he did check the gun.

HGR, IIRC, says it was completely dummied up. So now we have two conflicting statements, in which someone apparently removed 3 bullets of some type at some point in time (apparently HGR and DH were not looking at the same cylinders? I can't think of any easy explanation that doesn't mean...one of them is mistaken or lying).

 

[10ofRods]

If she's being truthful, someone did something to the gun after she last touched it.

And the DA says they know who put the live round in there, presumably someone's DNA is on there (and I would guess, just one person's, because she seems certain).

 

[10ofRods]

Thanks for this. So, no comment from the sheriff as to whether HGR had live rounds in her pockets or not. I wish he had said no live rounds found on her person. I wouldn't be having suspicious thoughts right now.

Not willing to confirm sounds like he's hiding something from us.

I suspect they don't want to file charges in waves. They want to file them all at the same time. And it looks to me like HGR is going to face some criminal charges of some kind, perhaps they're still determining which ones. But, they may also be considering other criminal charges against other people.

And, would "in a fanny pack owned by HGR but not attached to her body - but nearby" count as "on her person"? Does that cover "in her possession and control"?

 

[jjenny]

AD remembers seeing 3 rounds when HGR showed him the gun before the rehearsal. That doesn't mean there was only 3 rounds total. He just didn't check the rest or doesn't remember if he saw the rest. After gun was fired, AD told HGR to see what was in the gun, and then he saw at least four dummy rounds and one live casing.

Gun Handed to Alec Baldwin Was Not Thoroughly Checked, Affidavit Says - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

 

[Luna20]

Beware gross photos:


“Jason claims he was getting dodged by folks at "Rust" after reaching out 6 times about workers' comp, but now his attorneys say they are working with the movie's insurance company to get him paid for his troubles.

While Jason says he greatly appreciates the wave of public support, with over $13K donated to his , he insists what happened to him was a freak accident ... and he wants the focus on Halyna Hutchins because he thinks her shooting death could have been avoided”

'Rust' Set Worker's Arm Saved From Spider Bite, Working on Workers' Comp

 

[10ofRods]

AD remembers seeing 3 rounds when HGR showed him the gun before the rehearsal. That doesn't mean there was only 3 rounds total. He just didn't check the rest or doesn't remember if he saw the rest. After gun was fired, AD told HGR to see what was in the gun, and then he saw at least four dummy rounds and one live casing.

Gun Handed to Alec Baldwin Was Not Thoroughly Checked, Affidavit Says - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

So you basically think he lied and only said, in the affadavit, half the number he really saw? Okay. I don't think that's how it works, but we can agree to disagree.
'
He says it's before filming, he says it's three. He doesn't say "and then three more dummies for a total of six." He says...just three. Then, after it's fired, there are only two. I believe there's MSM that says 1 dummy and 1 more live round. As Clooney says, they look remarkably alike when the dummies are chosen for a close-up.

 

[JudgeJoe]

Beware gross photos:


“Jason claims he was getting dodged by folks at "Rust" after reaching out 6 times about workers' comp, but now his attorneys say they are working with the movie's insurance company to get him paid for his troubles.

While Jason says he greatly appreciates the wave of public support, with over $13K donated to his ********, he insists what happened to him was a freak accident ... and he wants the focus on Halyna Hutchins because he thinks her shooting death could have been avoided”

'Rust' Set Worker's Arm Saved From Spider Bite, Working on Workers' Comp

Wow. This movie just was not meant to happen- live bullets, brown recluse. Yikes. Those pics are horrific- apparently may even have to amputate. Either way, recovery is going to be a haul.

 

[jjenny]

No, AD says he remembers seeing 3 rounds before the rehearsal, and he doesn't remember seeing the rest. Which doesn't mean there were only 3 rounds, it just means he didn't see the other rounds, or doesn't remember seeing the other rounds.
After the shooting, when AD told HGR to check the gun, there was at least five rounds in the gun. At least four dummies and one casing from a live ammo.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

I'm late to this thread, but why was he pointing and firing at them anyway?

We won't know until we see the (movie) shooting script, the call list (daily schedule) and testimony addressing whether these two documents were followed or verbally modified. Until then everything is speculation and he/she/they said, he/she/they said.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

Clooney said: “I don't know Alec that well. I've been watching the news and I have to say, they've got the bad guy, which is going to be the first AD.

George Clooney says Alec Baldwin film set tragedy is 'insane and infuriating' (
Image:
Publicity Picture)
"He may be a d**k, I don't know the guy at all, but I've been on sets for 40 years and the person that hands you the gun, the person that is responsible for the gun is either the prop person or the armour. Period.

Yes. The AD is the captain of the ship. He sets the tone and effectiveness of the security culture, which in this case was "get 'er done, son" and "we don't need no stinking procedures." The producers are culpable for hiring such a guy without doing the normal background check/due diligence. Or paying attention to it if they did do it. Everything else follows from that.

 

[10ofRods]

We won't know until we see the (movie) shooting script, the call list (daily schedule) and testimony addressing whether these two documents were followed or verbally modified. Until then everything is speculation and he/she/they said, he/she/they said.

The script is out there. I think the call list is, too. Youtubers have been showing these documents for a couple of weeks.

We know that some of the people who were on the call list walked out that morning over safety issues. The movie's culminating scene (big shoot out in the church, which called for the destruction of the pew that Alec's character was sitting on) was to begin shooting.

LA Times has reported on the script, but it's behind a paywall.

This ‘Rust’ scene led to the fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins

 

[LietKynes]

With today's cgi and special effects ... couldn't they use mock or airsoft guns that look and weigh about the same --- and add the fire/noise later ?
No need for real guns, then.
Imo.


Rest in gentle peace, Halyna !!!
A tragic waste of talented and promising life.
What's more horrible is that this could have been easily avoided.

More so to her grieving family.
My utmost condolences to her young son and husband.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

The script is out there. I think the call list is, too. Youtubers have been showing these documents for a couple of weeks.

We know that some of the people who were on the call list walked out that morning over safety issues. The movie's culminating scene (big shoot out in the church, which called for the destruction of the pew that Alec's character was sitting on) was to begin shooting.

LA Times has reported on the script, but it's behind a paywall.

This ‘Rust’ scene led to the fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins

Well, sure. But we all have our own personal standards of evidence and I prefer and recommend high, especially in this era of social media. A call sheet or detailed scene description (placement of actors, camera angles, action) on YouTube are just suggestions until they are accepted by a court of law and accompanied by sworn depositions which state whether they were followed or ignored. The latter is particularly important in this case given the AD's reported history of improvising on the fly.