All About Chloroform#2

[Pink Panther]

I don't think she did use it. It was naturally derived from chlorine in the diaper/clothes/hair/body(pool drowning) and urine/feces/body putrification (Methane present in all 3)= Chloroform which would have gathered as a gas in the trunk. The diaper would have been wet for days and all of these fluids would have soaked into the floor of the trunk. I think that the search for chloroform was random after seeing RM's myspace pic and oddly enough, unrelated. I posted this before and was told the "experts" said no. But I reviewed what I could find from the "experts" and the possibility of chlorine from the pool combined with methane from the body was never mentioned.

One of the experts on NG stated that the levels of chloroform that was found were too high and thereby in a pure form that could not have been derived from the interaction you describe above. I'm not sure that anyone can really know at this point without more detailed information.

 

[lizzysf]

One of the experts on NG stated that the levels of chloroform that was found were too high and thereby in a pure form that could not have been derived from the interaction you describe above. I'm not sure that anyone can really know at this point without more detailed information.

I am very leery of any "expert" advice obtained from the NG show...I mean listen to what the forensic expert Kobi has been dishing out...total nonsense. Even I know about mitochondrial dNA. Sheesh. And Padilla also "in the know" has said some pretty ridiculous things that haven't panned out either.

 

[FifthEssence]

I hope TURBOTHINK-Misfit76-Pink Panther don’t mind me pasting their posts from the other thread but I do believe this is something to seriously consider:
REFERNCE:http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...t=72575&page=6

Turbo wrotebased on a dream reference Magic-Cat posted hearing 'chlorine' multiple times)
The potential of that is huge. First, the Anthonys could have a bucket of chlorine in their shed and NO ONE would think anything about it since they have a pool. They could have one in any of the vehicles and no one would think anything about it.

Those buckets seal with a clip like thing on top which prevents water or air from getting in them. You can leave them out in the rain unprotected without worrying about your chlorine getting wet. Chlorine can explode if it get wet, so they are really air/water proof.

Here are pictures of mine and as you can see mine even has water on the lid so it is water/air proof. (see link photos)

They could be set out anywhere and never noticed. When they were searching that yard, she could have been stuffed in one of those buckets in the shed or just setting outside. Chlorine covers the decomp and the dogs would not smell it. They could have poured the powdered chlorine out put her in it and refilled it with the powered chlorine. Bingo - no smell, not to mention if they opened it all they would see is chlorine.
__________________
FifthEssence quote:
ANYTHING is possible with that family. Somewhere there was info on the combination of chlorine and something else could create a chloroform substance or gas. The thoughts running through my mind almost make me sick in my stomach, but could KC have hidden her in one of those buckets ( 5gal bucket-12lbs per gallon = a 60lb bucket), then moved it to the trunk without the lid being secure and some bodily fluids and chlorine escaped when she tilted it or put it in the trunk sideways?
I just don't know where the shovel comes in to play.
What are your thoughts?



TURBO quote:
I don't think the fluids would have leaked from those buckets because they are leak proof. My guess on that would be she had did not have her in it to begin with when it leaked out.
Maybe the shovel was used to shovel out the chlorine into something else prior to putting the body in the bucket then shovel it back on top of the body.

FifEssence quote:
Yeah, and throw the difference into the pool. hmmm
What do you think about the possibility that the lid was NOT secured properly and when she later moved the bucket to the trunk, it tilted and a combination of chlorine and bodily fluid escaped?

PinkPanther quote:
One of the experts on NG said that the chloroform that was reported was pure and that it was not possible that it could have been a combination of cleaning fluids, urine etc...

Turbo quote:
That would be possible if you didn't know how to secure the lid. I don't see her as the one who would be maintaining the pool at home, so she might not have secured it well. Maybe the body was just in the trunk a while before she or someone had the idea to put it in the chlorine bucket
Would pure chlorine and pure urine make "pure" chloroform when the urine poured directly on the chlorine in a bucket?
That is my thought - remember "close to home" remark? Also didn't LP say there was chlorine on that shovel they tested?

Misfit76 quote:
I didnt hear that LP said there was chlorine found on the shovel, must have missed that, but it does fit with what he said on NG last week, which I found to be a disturbing theory. He briefly mentioned thinking Casey put a dead Caylee in the pool, realized her body was sinking to the bottom instead of floating, went to get a shovel to then retrieve her body from the pool.
It would be awkward but it also makes me think of how weight doesnt work the same in water. You know how when your a teenager and playing in the pool with your friends and you can pick each other up like nothing, you could lift up a 150lb person like they weighed 20lbs?

FifthEssence quote:
I do remember LP saying that. It doesn't make sense to me that KC would stand on the ladder or beside the pool (looked like a 3 or 4' deep pool in the photos) and fish her body up with a shovel. How awkward. You'd have to have great strength to lift a wet dead body from the middle of the pool with your arms extended holding a shovel.
IMO, using the shovel to remove chlorine powder out of the bucket makes more sense to me.

Turbo quote:
I have a large hand scoop too, but if you wanted to remove a lot of it in a short period of time, a shovel would be the ticket. It would take forever to scoop out all of that.
It is also possible it was a 100 lb bucket of tablets which a shovel would have been very handy so not to have to pick up all those tablets

 

[Amberjack]

Chloroform is used in:

Pool cleaning
Air conditioning repairs

 

[mahoneys07]

since chloraform is used in airconditions epairs would it be used in automotive air systems?

 

[AutomaticAuttie]

chloroform is also used for the purification of DNA

 

[carole]

You know, the more I think about all of this, the more I think that the chloroform thing is really strange! I've googled it and tried to find information on it and despite what has been said, it's really not that easy to find useable information on it! Where on earth did it come from? Whether KC used it before or after - doesn't really explain where it came from! From everything I have been able to find, it's not readily available - at least not to someone like her...WHERE did it come from? Could she really have made it herself? It's just so strange, of all substances, for her to have picked this one!

I just googled "chloroform" and the 15th website down is a company that sells it online, you just need a credit or debit card to buy it.

 

[Gaia713]

didn't they also say there were maggots in the trunk?

who gets maggots from old pizza? they don't like pizza.

They don't. I have seen pizza tossed in an open dumpster for a week and it doesn't smell and there are no maggors on it. It turns into something resembling shoe leather.

 

[Gaia713]

I don't think she did use it. It was naturally derived from chlorine in the diaper/clothes/hair/body(pool drowning) and urine/feces/body putrification (Methane present in all 3)= Chloroform which would have gathered as a gas in the trunk. The diaper would have been wet for days and all of these fluids would have soaked into the floor of the trunk. I think that the search for chloroform was random after seeing RM's myspace pic and oddly enough, unrelated. I posted this before and was told the "experts" said no. But I reviewed what I could find from the "experts" and the possibility of chlorine from the pool combined with methane from the body was never mentioned.

I think chloroform is a little more complicated than just a wet diaper and pool chlorine (which is very diluted). I also question that a wet diaper in Florida would stay wet for a lont period of time.

If you could produce chloroform with just urine and chlorine from a pool, any public pool in the US would be in danger of killing many people.

 

[Chilly Willy]

I think chloroform is a little more complicated than just a wet diaper and pool chlorine (which is very diluted). I also question that a wet diaper in Florida would stay wet for a lont period of time.

I agree with you on this. The amount of pool water that would be absorbed by a diaper wouldn't even contain a full drop of Chlorine. Definitely not enough to make Chloroform.

Chloroform is also NOT used in air conditioning repair or pool cleaning.

 

[cassious]

I was an hvac tech for years an I never used, heard of or even seen chloroform.

 

[Jolynna]

According to the timeline in People magazine, chloroform was searched BEFORE Caylee went missing on June 15/16.

I believe this will be proven to be true.

It seems to me the most logical reason to use chloroform is the commonly known one...putting someone to sleep (maybe permanently).

It would be especially damaging if Casey was googling "humane euthanization with chloroform" in the same online sessions she was googling "missing children". What was googled along with what can show intent.

IMO

 

[insatiable]

It's a solvent. You pick your solvents because they DON'T damage the DNA you are hoping to isolate. I can't picture someone thinking it was a good way to clean out the trunk or degrade any DNA that may be in there.

If someone cleaned the trunk with bleach and another cleaner that contained something else doesn't that sometimes turn into chloroform? Acetone and bleach mixed together or something? If I was trying to get rid of decomp smell I would use something that smelled strong like bleach and/or Acetone. I could see KC pouring nail polish remover (which contains acetone) in the trunk to disguise the smell. IMO I don't think she would be smart enough to use chloroform to degrade the dna.

 

[impatientredhead]

If someone cleaned the trunk with bleach and another cleaner that contained something else doesn't that sometimes turn into chloroform? Acetone and bleach mixed together or something? If I was trying to get rid of decomp smell I would use something that smelled strong like bleach and/or Acetone. I could see KC pouring nail polish remover (which contains acetone) in the trunk to disguise the smell. IMO I don't think she would be smart enough to use chloroform to degrade the dna.

The testing of the trunk showed vaporized Chloroform which would not be created by the mixing of chemicals/accidental creation. Anyone attempting to clean with Choloroform would need a respirator so they didn't pass out in the process, cleaning is not a likely reason for it to be there.

 

[Chilly Willy]

If someone cleaned the trunk with bleach and another cleaner that contained something else doesn't that sometimes turn into chloroform? Acetone and bleach mixed together or something? If I was trying to get rid of decomp smell I would use something that smelled strong like bleach and/or Acetone. I could see KC pouring nail polish remover (which contains acetone) in the trunk to disguise the smell. IMO I don't think she would be smart enough to use chloroform to degrade the dna.

Bleach would have discolored the carpeting in the trunk and been immediately noticeable. It does a great job turning ugly olive green color area rugs into ugly harvest gold color area rugs - in case anyone is interested.

 

[Jolynna]

Bleach would have discolored the carpeting in the trunk and been immediately noticeable. It does a great job turning ugly olive green color area rugs into ugly harvest gold color area rugs - in case anyone is interested.

Good point.

LOL at your great description of bleach's impact on carpet.

 

[insatiable]

The testing of the trunk showed vaporized Chloroform which would not be created by the mixing of chemicals/accidental creation. Anyone attempting to clean with Choloroform would need a respirator so they didn't pass out in the process, cleaning is not a likely reason for it to be there.

Ohh, I was unaware of the difference, thanks for clearing that up for me


Where the heck would someone get that from?

While looking up vaporized chloroform I just read "Dizziness, frequent headaches, and sinus problems can all be a symptoms of chloroform gas exposure. Chloroform gas is the result of vaporized chlorine interacting with dead skin cells and other biological matter in the bathroom. Basically, you are inhaling chloroform gas every time you take a shower. If you have frequent headaches and you are not using chlorine shower filters, the cause of your headaches could be exposure to chloroform gas"

Would something like this cause vaporized chloroform?

 

[impatientredhead]

Ohh, I was unaware of the difference, thanks for clearing that up for me


Where the heck would someone get that from?

While looking up vaporized chloroform I just read "Dizziness, frequent headaches, and sinus problems can all be a symptoms of chloroform gas exposure. Chloroform gas is the result of vaporized chlorine interacting with dead skin cells and other biological matter in the bathroom. Basically, you are inhaling chloroform gas every time you take a shower. If you have frequent headaches and you are not using chlorine shower filters, the cause of your headaches could be exposure to chloroform gas"

Would something like this cause vaporized chloroform?

Chemist Jeff Flowers, who has testified in state and federal court as an expert, said positive tests for vaporized chloroform mean those results could not have come from anything else -- not cleaning products, not human body fluids or a mixture of anything else.

"I think it's as significant or more significant than finding decomposition products," Flowers said.

Flowers said it had to have been pure chloroform, WESH 2's Bob Kealing reported.

"It could not have come from a chemical reaction in the trunk. It's impossible," Flowers said.

Flowers said chloroform can be found in very small amounts in everyday liquid cleaning products. But, he said, chloroform cannot vaporize or get in to the air unless large amounts of it are present.

http://www.wesh.com/news/17397494/detail.html

 

[currcat]

(Quote)

While looking up vaporized chloroform I just read "Dizziness, frequent headaches, and sinus problems can all be a symptoms of chloroform gas exposure. Chloroform gas is the result of vaporized chlorine interacting with dead skin cells and other biological matter in the bathroom. Basically, you are inhaling chloroform gas every time you take a shower. If you have frequent headaches and you are not using chlorine shower filters, the cause of your headaches could be exposure to chloroform gas"

Would something like this cause vaporized chloroform?[/QUOTE]


I find it intresting that exposure to vaporized chloroform can casue sinus problems and on one of the receipts involved in the theft/forgery charges, Casey was purchasing some sinus type medications- I beleive it was sudafed!

 

[insatiable]

(Quote)

While looking up vaporized chloroform I just read "Dizziness, frequent headaches, and sinus problems can all be a symptoms of chloroform gas exposure. Chloroform gas is the result of vaporized chlorine interacting with dead skin cells and other biological matter in the bathroom. Basically, you are inhaling chloroform gas every time you take a shower. If you have frequent headaches and you are not using chlorine shower filters, the cause of your headaches could be exposure to chloroform gas"

Would something like this cause vaporized chloroform?

I find it intresting that exposure to vaporized chloroform can casue sinus problems and on one of the receipts involved in the theft/forgery charges, Casey was purchasing some sinus type medications- I beleive it was sudafed![/QUOTE]

Wasn't she complaining of a sinus problem or cold in text messages to AH as well?

I don't know, it just seems odd to me that she would be able to get chloroform...can you just buy this stuff at a store?