Alleged abuse photos

[PolyGraph]

thanks for moving this post mods, I just saw my question could be answered here and tried to figure out how to move it myself and couldnt so thanks for beating me to it! lol

 

[Tichad3]

I do not start threads often but I have got to ask others what they honestly think of the pic of haleigh with the bruises on her face, (arts website) especially the one where you can see the whole left side of her face and there is this bruise that is way towards the back, does that seem suspicious? because of the location it looks like she may have either had quite a fall and bumped her face in two different places, or those bruises came later. Its the location, it doesnt seem, to me anyway, that all of those bruises came from the same fall, I guess only the witness at the playground could attest to how she fell. (If there was indeed such a witness.) That would be (imoo) the only way the bio mom could prove abuse in those photos, if the teacher said she fell in one spot only and did not roll. If you look at the pic you can see how she would have had to hit something twice, once in the front, (the scrape) and the bruises in the back mean a second hit, Im not an expert so please correct me if Im wrong (I know you all will anyway)

I only saw the bruises in the front. I'm not aware of any at the back. Haleigh does have a dark patch of hair at her hairline by her ear plus a dark birthmark on the side of her face. Do you mean those?

I'll have to go back and look.

 

[PolyGraph]

I only saw the bruises in the front. I'm not aware of any at the back. Haleigh does have a dark patch of hair at her hairline by her ear plus a dark birthmark on the side of her face. Do you mean those?

I'll have to go back and look.

if you look on art harris's website look at the fourth picture, its the first onein the second row nd look how far away that bruise is from the front of her face..i mean its like so far away im trying to think how in the world did she get bruised there too? not accusing anyone because if they are abuse photos we have no idea WHO put them there, that is the problem with abuse in the usa, you have to prove beyond a shodow who did the abusing and that is hard, believe me I know. When my oldest son was only 2 years old, he was abused by a babysitters boyfriend, knowing I could risk having my child removed from my home, I hotwired their house and proved that he did the abusing! I did this because it was their word against mine so Iwanted to prove that they did it, they admitted it on the tape and I played it for the police. Had I not done that I would have had my son taken away (because he was bruised all down his back) and would have had to wait months for court dates to get him back, so that is why I did it.

Back to Haleigh, if crystal's attorney wants to prove abuse she is going to have the hardest time doing it, especially since ron has custody and the school would have had to call in youth and family services at least once to complain about this before anyone would believe it was ron, even then, they would do a thorough investigation and check into his lifestyle (which I cannot believe he has been getting away with all this drug activity) and have to have solid proof before removing the kids. KP would have to go out and find ALOT of witnesses who saw ron abuse them first hand or have it on tape somehow. Abuse is so hard to prove, ask the hundreds of moms on protective parent websites about that, they have been to court several times and spent thousands of dollars only to have the perp get the kids and acuse the mom of the bogus theory 'parental alienation' crap. Through personal experience I have come to the firm belief that THE LAW DOES NOT PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN.

 

[Tichad3]

I think that's her birthmark. Or one of the spots affiliated with Turner's syndrome. But I'm not 100% right now. I'd have to recheck in the morning.

 

[nomoresorrow]

Another possibility is that TN may very well have taken those pics of Haleigh's injuries for a potential (future) lawsuit against the school for the injuries that she sustained on their property, while playing on their playground equipment, and while under their supervision - IMO, no, it is not natural for anyone, parent or otherwise, to take pics of an injury on a "healing-progression" basis unless there is the potential for a monetary settlement based upon those injuries. (added proof = pics) Perhaps in time something (or someone) will come out/forward and provide evidence of this being the motive for taking the pictures...the truth may not come out exactly when we would like it to, BUT it does eventually come out...
MOO

 

[Busylady]

Marie had called DCF on Ron before. If I was Ron I would also document every injury in order to protect myself. Thank goodness he did, because the documented photos pretty much throw out Crystals claim that the injuries are different or more severe as time went on.

Another possibility is that TN may very well have taken those pics of Haleigh's injuries for a potential (future) lawsuit against the school for the injuries that she sustained on their property, while playing on their playground equipment, and while under their supervision - IMO, no, it is not natural for anyone, parent or otherwise, to take pics of an injury on a "healing-progression" basis unless there is the potential for a monetary settlement based upon those injuries. (added proof = pics) Perhaps in time something (or someone) will come out/forward and provide evidence of this being the motive for taking the pictures...the truth may not come out exactly when we would like it to, BUT it does eventually come out...
MOO

 

[nomoresorrow]

Marie had called DCF on Ron before. If I was Ron I would also document every injury in order to protect myself. Thank goodness he did, because the documented photos pretty much throw out Crystals claim that the injuries are different or more severe as time went on.

That may very well turn out to be the reason that the pics were taken but I'm going to look at all other possiblities until there is proof of the motive behind the pics because for me, no disrespect intended, your theory doesn't mesh with all of the other things that RC's could have done to verify and establish that he was in fact, providing a healthy home for his children, such as not openly living with an underage girl/child, not associating with known criminals, such as those with priors (drugs, assault, burglary...) and a host of other things that would/could have ascertained him (and his home) of being the better parent (home) for Haleigh and Jr.
MOO

 

[atherella]

I have a question for anyone living in FL -- hopefully someone will know.

With all the talk of the law "failing children", I'm curious if Guardian ad Litems are routinely appointed down there in abuse and neglect cases?

(That is what I do for a living, so I'm really quite interested. It's VERY hard where I'm from for the law to fail a child ONCE a case is opened. I understand that no case has even been opened with either Haleigh or Junior, to the best of my knowledge, though.)

I don't know if DCY in FL is like it is up here (and probably in most every state). Caseworkers have TONS & TONS of cases. It's very hard for them to give a case personal attention. They have stacks of cases on their desks, and little to no time to work the cases. They are overworked and underpaid, and the states don't have the funding to hire more workers to keep up with the demands of the office. Which, unfortunately, means that some cases don't get the attention they deserve.

(That's why I think GALs are such a great tool in the courts -- IF and when a case ever GETS to court. However, I will say that after a person has been reported three times for abuse, it would be very hard for it to be overlooked. Maybe once... maybe even two times...but three times would be very hard to miss, IMO. Not impossible....but hard.)

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Marie had called DCF on Ron before. If I was Ron I would also document every injury in order to protect myself. Thank goodness he did, because the documented photos pretty much throw out Crystals claim that the injuries are different or more severe as time went on.

The photos take the wind right out of their sail and uncover the truth behind the trumped up carp against Ronald, imo. This shows what type of people they are and the lengths they will go to for revenge...again, my opinion only. I am certain a judge or DCF will not care for their antics when it comes up tho.

 

[nas212913]

I have a question for anyone living in FL -- hopefully someone will know.

With all the talk of the law "failing children", I'm curious if Guardian ad Litems are routinely appointed down there in abuse and neglect cases?

(That is what I do for a living, so I'm really quite interested. It's VERY hard where I'm from for the law to fail a child ONCE a case is opened. I understand that no case has even been opened with either Haleigh or Junior, to the best of my knowledge, though.)

I don't know if DCY in FL is like it is up here (and probably in most every state). Caseworkers have TONS & TONS of cases. It's very hard for them to give a case personal attention. They have stacks of cases on their desks, and little to no time to work the cases. They are overworked and underpaid, and the states don't have the funding to hire more workers to keep up with the demands of the office. Which, unfortunately, means that some cases don't get the attention they deserve.

(That's why I think GALs are such a great tool in the courts -- IF and when a case ever GETS to court. However, I will say that after a person has been reported three times for abuse, it would be very hard for it to be overlooked. Maybe once... maybe even two times...but three times would be very hard to miss, IMO. Not impossible....but hard.)

Yes, we do use GALs. My mom is one actually......but, they don't call her unless a child is physically removed from the home and placed in foster care.
With that said, you would not believe what some people get away with here. Sometimes, children are left in deplorable conditions because there just aren't enough workers/foster parents to go around.

 

[nomoresorrow]

GAL's = Hero's in my book.

 

[atherella]

Yes, we do use GALs. My mom is one actually......but, they don't call her unless a child is physically removed from the home and placed in foster care.
With that said, you would not believe what some people get away with here. Sometimes, children are left in deplorable conditions because there just aren't enough workers/foster parents to go around.

That's so sad.

We get called into cases here as soon as a case is opened -- even if the child(ren) are still in the home. Sometimes we simply have to help the parent(s) find services, get counseling, parenting classes, etc. Other times when the child(ren) are removed from the home, the goal is always for reunification. Obviously that isn't always possible, but that is always the goal. (When a child is still in a home, there are surprise home checks by caseworkers at anytime, too).

It's shocking to think that kids are left in such conditions as you are describing. We definitely have overworked caseworkers here... but I will give them credit -- they do their best to get out there and investigate every case.

 

[Gaia713]

Last night 03-18-09 Crystal and her lawyer said they have proof of the physical abuse of Haleigh by Ron. A. Harris was interviewed on Nancy Grace and he said that he had pictures and would be putting them on his site.

Every time I have tried to go to his website it says it does not exist. Has anyone else been able to view the supposed pictures? If you have seen them would you kindly describe what's in the pictures, i.e. normal kids bruises or extensive bruising.

They are pictures of Haleigh AFTER her fall from the monkey bars at school. There is nothing in the photos to prove that there was any abuse involved other than in Crystal's mind. The bruises on JR are nothing more than typical childhood bruises from playing.

Efven Crystal's attorney tried to say that Haleigh's "scrath" fromher fall off the monkey bar was gone when the pics were taken. Maybe her attorney neeeds to read the school report ont he injuries - it clkearly says a CUT, not a scratch.

The alleged injuries to both children are bogtus and just more attempts to slander the custodial parent imo. I have seen abused children and they look a LOT WORSE than these pictures.

 

[nas212913]

That's so sad.

We get called into cases here as soon as a case is opened -- even if the child(ren) are still in the home. Sometimes we simply have to help the parent(s) find services, get counseling, parenting classes, etc. Other times when the child(ren) are removed from the home, the goal is always for reunification. Obviously that isn't always possible, but that is always the goal. (When a child is still in a home, there are surprise home checks by caseworkers at anytime, too).

It's shocking to think that kids are left in such conditions as you are describing. We definitely have overworked caseworkers here... but I will give them credit -- they do their best to get out there and investigate every case.

Without going into too much detail, I know of a case (personally) where you cannot see the floor because there is just garbage everywhere....I mean everywhere. Clothes, dirty diapers, old food plates, cans of beer and soda, cigarrette butts, feces smeared on the wall.....you get the point. There are five children in one bedroom with two beds....twin beds, not even queen or king sized. No sheets or pillows. The case worker went to the house, told the people at the residence to clean it, left her card, and left. She showed up a week later with the house in the same condition. She said she would be back. She never went back. She called on the phone and said she was closing the case. That's it. Just closing it. The children range from ages 2 months to 13, both boys and girls. It's disgusting.
Such a terrible shame. Children do NOT deserve that, at all. It breaks my heart.

 

[bisaillon]

Yup she's so worried... she put him on TV and said that he
knows details about the person who took his sissy!
:banghead:

And whats wrong with that? She wants her daughter back...:twocents:

 

[harleysnana]

And whats wrong with that? She wants her daughter back...:twocents:

How does putting him on tv help to get her daughter back?
It doesn't! It only puts him in danger!

If the story is true and there really is a guy dressed in black that took his
sissy ... now that guy knows there is a witness...and knows who the witness is...

What if the "guy dressed in black" does something to Haleigh now that he may be identified.
Or what happens if he decides to do something to JR down the road?

She didn't need to say who saw the "man in black" ... she didn't need to
take him on tv!
Sorry... I just don't see that as helping find Haleigh!

 

[fortytwo]

How does putting him on tv help to get her daughter back?
It doesn't! It only puts him in danger!

If the story is true and there really is a guy dressed in black that took his
sissy ... now that guy knows there is a witness...and knows who the witness is...

What if the "guy dressed in black" does something to Haleigh now that he may be identified.
Or what happens if he decides to do something to JR down the road?

She didn't need to say who saw the "man in black" ... she didn't need to
take him on tv!
Sorry... I just don't see that as helping find Haleigh!

All very true.

And this doesn't even address the issue of interrogating a four year old in front of cameras on national television.

I'm not an authority, but I suspect that this doesn't satisfy acceptable procedure for eliciting reliable testimony from a small child.

It probably does fill the bill if the goal is to insure that he agrees with whatever is asked of him.

 

[LFlorida]

Crystals step mom takes pictures of Haleighs injuries because she noticed dried blood in the nose and nose was swollen, yet she does not take her for medical care?

9 of the days in Feb are after Haleigh went missing.
3 of the missed days in Nov are when Crystal had the kids
Crystal also says she had no idea Haleigh had missed so much school until she ordered records after Haleigh went missing, yet she claims Ron would not let her take the kids sometimes because if Haleigh missed anymore school he would be put in jail. Once again you cannot have it both ways. Claim you did not know, yet make statements that show you did know. Also why was Crystal wanting the kids on days when Haleigh should be in school, then blame Ron for her missing schoool?

Busylady, could you help us out? Where did Crystal state that she had ordered these records? tia

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Without going into too much detail, I know of a case (personally) where you cannot see the floor because there is just garbage everywhere....I mean everywhere. Clothes, dirty diapers, old food plates, cans of beer and soda, cigarrette butts, feces smeared on the wall.....you get the point. There are five children in one bedroom with two beds....twin beds, not even queen or king sized. No sheets or pillows. The case worker went to the house, told the people at the residence to clean it, left her card, and left. She showed up a week later with the house in the same condition. She said she would be back. She never went back. She called on the phone and said she was closing the case. That's it. Just closing it. The children range from ages 2 months to 13, both boys and girls. It's disgusting.
Such a terrible shame. Children do NOT deserve that, at all. It breaks my heart.

I believe it, my daughter used to work for DCF here where we live and she quit! She could not tell me all..but she didn't have to. She would come home crying because there was only so much she was allowed to do, and the little bit she was allowed to do did not help the children. Her case load was between 25-40 children..that is a lot for one person and when all of the children come from an abusive/neglected environment.

My sister starts working for DCF in FL tomorrow and boy, she is one strong woman and she will do what is needed even if she gets fired. She is very passionate about the welfare of children, and unfortunately there are not that many workers out there that really care or can handle the pressure. Most are over worked and under payed, but that is no excuse to ignore a child that is being neglected and/or abused.

 

[nomoresorrow]

MOO but I still believe that HaLeigh was an abused child regardless of DCF's finding which means absolutely nothing to me as I've seen far too many cases whereby they deem the abuse unsubstantiated and down the road the child suffers serious permanent injuries and/or death. Why would Ronald have to be instructed by DCF on how to spank a child appropriately if he had never done it inappropriately before? And why would Ronald have an agreement with HaLeigh regarding how he would discipline her if he hadn't ever over-disciplined her before? I call BS! DCF, for the time being, can hide behind their confidentiality rules/guidelines - rules/guidelines that protect them from being held accountability for the decisions they make that ultimately determine the fate of a child(ren) - but as sure as the sun will come up tomorrow, the truth will eventually come out, somewhere down the line. JMHO~