Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #33

[UnfoldingTruth]

If GBC was on the brink of declaring bankruptcy, would he have had to repay his debts? MOO

Probably been answered, so appologies if it has..I am still playing catch up.. Many of GBC debts appear to be through 'hand-shake' deals and 'gentlemens agreements'. Not through 'legitimate' lending institutions. I would think therefore declaring bankruptcy would actually have had no bearing on much of the money he owed. Those soughts of debts are not 'officially' recognized(?). So it would appear not too beneficial for GBC to declare bankruptcy..cashing in a life insurance policy on the otherhand... MOO

 

[Bayside]

Further to my earlier posts:

Going forward please do not link to the Affidavit on the Aussie Crooks and Criminals site, or discuss the information that is not available from an official source.

There are multiple reasons for this decision, some that have already been pointed out. Thank you for understanding this decision.

You may still link other information from Robbo's site, per WS rules! Just not the information in the affidavit.

If you choose to link/discuss the full affidavit information not publicly available after this warning, you will be placed on "vacation'.

You will also be placed on "vacation" if you continue to question moderation/moderation decisions on the open board.

Thanks good call, I could do with a vacation but not a WS type of one lol.

 

[bearbear]

Hello ... actually thought police asked if people had notice anything 'unusual' at the roundabout. I too am still intrigued by this one. I was one of the crazies who stayed up until all hours watching a black n white cctv video footage at the roundabout the night police were stopping cars.:crazy:
Is it possible an odd thing would be a car going the wrong was around the roundabout or driving the wrong way up the road? Wasn't there reports of one of the 4wds being driven erratically up Brookfield road?

maybe it was allison driving erratically in a distressed state after a huge argument?

 

[minni]

just having a look at the summary on aussiecriminals and this bullet point struck me. I dont remember this piece of information. Does anyone recall or even have a link....yep, Marly, I'm looking at you


Summary of theories submitted thus far on where Allison was killed:

At a creek near Rafting Ground Road or at Rafting Ground Road (thus explaining the reported sighting of NGB and EBC at the scene days later).


http://aussiecriminals.com.au/category/crimes/murders/

 

[Maigret]

just having a look at the summary on aussiecriminals and this bullet point struck me. I dont remember this piece of information. Does anyone recall or even have a link....yep, Marly, I'm looking at you


Summary of theories submitted thus far on where Allison was killed:

At a creek near Rafting Ground Road or at Rafting Ground Road (thus explaining the reported sighting of NGB and EBC at the scene days later).


http://aussiecriminals.com.au/category/crimes/murders/

I don't think a lot of what is on that site is accurate - GBC has been charged with Allison's murder at their home
Mr Baden-Clay is accused of killing his wife and the mother of his three daughters, Allison, in their Brookfield home in April this year.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...nclay-delay-20120709-21q98.html#ixzz20dXDdyE2

 

[minni]

Thankyou Maigret! do you recall the bit where it says that NBC and EBC were seen at Rafting Ground Road creek? If so, was it after screams were reported or before?

I'd better go have a google! and its time I catch up on the yesterdays and last nights posts!

J-Dig, I like your tag haha

 

[minni]

GBC went to the chemist in the morning (one of the statements already given) before the night of 19 April.(that date is etched in my brain for evermore)

IF he picked up a 'script of sleeping pills IMO they could have been given to the girls.

IF this were the case the girls wouldn't have heard a thing.

This would certainly add to the premeditation argument IF it were to be the case.

I was told this exact rumour last week

 

[Mountain Misst]

So here's the thing. I don't know if Allison had an iPhone but it appears she may have. See ref to "the app doesn't say" in the text by nimrod the next day.

Now I do recall the triangulation saying within 4km radius.

Last year I moved and inadvertently place my iPhone on the bonnet of my car, drove off and promptly forgot all about it for several hours. I had NO clue whee I'd put it or dropped it. Fortunately I had "find my iPhone app" set up. So I went to my iPad and it found it.

This is a true story & I have the photo to upload which I'll try to put on in a minute.

My phone was 8km away on M1 north bound. The pic, as you'll see, shows it clearly in the middle of the lanes. So my son & I went to that location. I zoomed in a little actually as I knew the area to be near an on ramp.

My son thought I was mad but sure enough I drove onto the on ramp & just as you merge I saw my phone on the edge of the road. I was driving very slow with hazard lights on & it was middle of day, mid week so not that much traffic.

I got out walked back to the phone and picked it up. It was smashed to smithereens & dead.

However, my point is if Allison did have that phone, with that app working, I am living proof that even if the phone was wet or damaged the app would record its last known GPS position before it shut down. Even IF somehow nimrod deleted the app from her phone then tossed it, when/if it's found it will still have the data on it. The beauty of the iPhone apps is that they're also frequently backed up so it would be clear if she had the app & it had been deleted also.

I feel certain that if they found her phone it would have information on it that could potentially reveal a lot. For instance also, if you have the Facebook App on your phone in the places section it will come up with venues you've been past, roads you've been on etc. etc. again it's quite interesting that these phones and the androids basically have the tracking feature on apps most of us have.

I guess I know a bit about this stuff but nimrod is an idiot if he thought his web browsing and FaceTime call wouldn't register - and the charging/unplugging also. Not hard to find out from the phone, apps, previous back ups, the sim card trackers and of course his service provider. And police software!

I'll try to load that photo so you see. No one believes me I tracked my lost phone to a busy freeway and then found it but it's true and I have the proof. So, if she had the app the triangulation as mentioned would have narrowed it's position we'll down from a 4km radius. It'll even show you what house block it's in. Try it. Just my own opinion as always.

Hmmm thanks. I have an iphone so thought I'd check. I had "Location Services" turned off.

So for those of us who have iphones (mine is a G4) go to settings and check - the list starts with airplane mode, wifi, notifications, location services, carrier.

 

[Fergie]

Just for the record, the little parking area DunnoZo referred to is immediately to the left (9 o'clock) of the roundabout in this view. Brookfield Rd goes off at about 10-11 o'clock, and the bus stop I think is the one involved is in front of the Kenmore Village car park at about 1 o'clock, just in front of two white cars in the car park.

If you look down at about 6:30, you'll see the Kenmore School swimming pool, and on the road, under the tree, is another bus stop with a bus stopped at it. I think this is the one that the Facebook crew had in their photo - but I think that's the wrong one.

However, one point is that both of these bus stops are a LONG fairly stiff walk from NBC's house, and would be up a long hilly stretch of Moggill Rd. Why walk all the way up there, into a potentially more populated, well-lit area with cameras? Why not meet up somewhere nearer NBC's house, say, on Kilkivan St? Or down at the Rafting Ground Rd junction (or just walk down there and across the road to the nursery and its carpark which is dark, and heading outbound towards Kholo Creek)?

I can think of a lot of places that would make WAY better rendezvous spots than the Kenmore roundabout for numerous reasons.

But - the police know or suspect something went on there, and we just don't know what that may be.

Frustrating? You betcha...

And our creek is also well up and flowing fast today, but not over its banks, although if we get more rain overnight or tomorrow, it will come up and over. Which would be similar to what happened that fateful weekend before Allison was found....

There is also a bus stop on the other side of the roundabout outside the NAB on Brookfield Road outbound that is not visible in the photos posted. An earlier poster proposed the theory that NBC was at the bus stop while NBC was allegedly taking Allison's body to Kholo Creek to observe the traffic on Brookfield Road and Moggill Road outbound in case police vehicles were seen and GBC could be alerted.

 

[minni]

We know they are not the smartest crims out there but this one is really pushing it lol.

I think by the times the phone was returned to the charger Gerard had at least 4 hours to clean up so would not be leaving it till the last minute and his father would not be there with him.

I think that sounds right to Bayside, by this stage, his father would be back home, safe and sound and warm and cosy in his sealy posturepedic, slippers by the bed, not a care in the world

 

[DrWatson]

There is also a bus stop on the other side of the roundabout outside the NAB on Brookfield Road outbound that is not visible in the photos posted. An earlier poster proposed the theory that NBC was at the bus stop while NBC was allegedly taking Allison's body to Kholo Creek to observe the traffic on Brookfield Road and Moggill Road outbound in case police vehicles were seen and GBC could be alerted.

Yes, you're right - there is a bus stop there, although not one with a shelter or seats. And it can't be seen from the cameras, which face the other way (one along Moggill Rd heading towards town, and one along Moggil Rd inbound approaching the roundabout, monitoring that traffic stop light).

But I still can't see the lookout theory as being viable. What use would an alert be anyway? What would GBC have done? And that is a LONG way from Kholo Creek, or even the Anstead turnoff - a police vehicle could go anywhere between the roundabout and there. And if I were being posted there as a lookout, I'd be sitting in my car in the Coles carpark, out of sight, and ready to move again. Why sit in the bus stop at all?

I just don't get that whole Kenmore roundabout thing.....

:banghead:

 

[minni]

I feel the same about the roundabout Thinking. :banghead: When I first heard that QPS were asking the locals if they'd seen anything "unusual" and "out of place" at the roundabout on the 19 and 20 April, I was thinking more along the lines of a hit-run, a prang or a loud altercation. QPS then proceeded to create a re-enactment and later had officers stopping traffic from 11:00pm on a Thursday night. I just don't get it! Perhaps QPS were wanting to eliminate something as opposed to finding something. But what? 543's posts continually mention the roundabout on Rafting Ground Road and they were also disparaging of QPS wasting time looking for evidence at the Kenmore roundabout. I'm wondering if someone did report something happening at a roundabout but didn't say or got confused as to which one?

Back to Kenmore roundabout - we next hear about NBC sitting in the bus shelter and being identified by someone who knows him. Did CCTV footage pick him up sitting in the bus shelter and in the next sequence of video he was gone? Were QPS trying to ascertain who picked him up? We've never heard anything in MSM about NBC being at the bus shelter, yet we've heard plenty about witnesses seeing the two vehicles that night. Why no mention of NBC? No disrespect to Squizzey who told us about NBC but I don't believe it. IMO I think this is a rumour that someone concocted for why QPS were interested in the roundabout that night.

Similarly, I don't believe that NBC was at GBC's place washing cars when the police arrived. It did state in the bail affidavit's that NBC had spoken to GBC at 6:30am on the 20 April, this was obviously after the facetime call they thought was their dirty little secret never to be discovered. :jail:

Makara, I had exactly the same thought about the roundabout. I believed QPS were eliminating a statement made by TM or GBC or seeing which one was telling the truth etc. (at the time I was thinking TM was involved and they may even have been timing the space of time that the car of interest was OUT of view of the roundabout cctv. ie could it have been long enough to get to Kholo and back, to Brookfield and back, or to NBC and back, or even St Lucia. I waffled on for a couple of days about the possibilities at the roundabout, so I doubt I will find my posts easily with my referencing skills being as they are and all! Ill try.

The other thing about your post regarding NBC at roundabout...it is hard to imagine that the QPS havent arrested him yet if this is true. They have spent a large amount of their investigation focused here, and if its linked with the crime, and NBC is linked with the roundabout, it seems strange that they havent snagged him.

Its highly possible that they have not been able to secure the evidence they needed when doing these tests. Perhaps their tests included the fact that they were told he was at the bus stop and they have since been trying to confirm it, and they've not been able to prove or disprove it. I was told by a local that NBC was seen sitting at the roundabout also, but Squizzey said it was a woman, and my 'source' said it was a local man. so who knows? just another rumour to confuse us all!!! Also, no disrespect Squiz

As for the car washing, it would be a preposterious thing to do, but Ive heard of even stupider killers do even more stupid things haha.

I did consider at one point that there may have been water pooled around the tyres of one of the cars, or one of the cars looking particularly clean, just like the toys in the back of the Captiva, and the lack of booster seats etc was unusual for a woman with three young girls.

I also thought it would be entirely possible that at that time of morning, and that time of year, there would be condensation or dew, still on the cars. If one of the cars did not have this, it would be evidence that it had been cleaned?

 

[minni]

WARNING.This is the "trailer photo" that caused some crazy posts :floorlaugh: I am just re introducing it as I always felt the car parked in this snap shot photo in the top left side was strange. At aprox 415am the camera blacked out and when the footage returned the car was gone. This was the night they were doing the re enactment at the roundabout. It could be nothing at all but the question is could a silver car look white at night and could this be Bwanna car???
Just putting it out there.

View attachment 24489

good point Curious...this seems to fit in very well with the sighting at the roundabout at that exact bus stop of NBC. The QPS must have had control over who was in the carpark as much as they had control over the roads taht night they did the re enactment. Therefore it stands to reason that THEY put the car there during there testing, and at that specific time. This then could indicate that BigBwanaLama drove to the Coles carpark, then got out and sat at the bus stop (dont know why he didnt wait in his car, but he may have been agitated, and got out, kind of paced etc? then when he saw any car coming, he may have just sat to look less obvious?, havent got that detail figured just yet). So he would be there at Kenmore Village Car Park, waiting for GBC. It could also follow that GBC didn't actually drive through the roundabout at that time, but rather, straight into the Coles carpark from Brookfield Road, to meet his father!
You've got me all excited again Curious, because, as I was saying yesterday, I ran the roundabout through my mind for days and days, and one thing I kept trying to throw out there was the meeting in the carpark, to use the industrial bins, then returning after the adrenalin had eased and realising that it was not a good place to leave her. I gave up after a while, there were many good thoeries why it was unlikely, mostly because he wouldnt be able to put her in and take her out with ease. Ill stop here and go make a coffee, cos Im going over the speed limit on my keyboard!!!

 

[YoureNicked]

Hello ... actually thought police asked if people had notice anything 'unusual' at the roundabout. I too am still intrigued by this one. I was one of the crazies who stayed up until all hours watching a black n white cctv video footage at the roundabout the night police were stopping cars.:crazy:
Is it possible an odd thing would be a car going the wrong was around the roundabout or driving the wrong way up the road? Wasn't there reports of one of the 4wds being driven erratically up Brookfield road?

Usually when I see people driving erratically on the road (or do it myself, yikes! I'm talking swerving side to side a bit but still mainly in the correct lane) it's because they are reaching for something on the passenger's side or in the back seat. Looking for something in a bag or reaching for a phone. That's what I've noticed, anyway.

There eyes are off the road for a couple of seconds.

Just an observation.

As for the something 'unusual at the roundabout', yes, this is such a mystery.

If NBC was at the bus stop at the approximate 2am time frame mentioned by squzzey1 when he reported what his friend had seen, well that would definitely be strange or 'out of place'. But why would someone, even if they were on 'lookout duty' whilst GBC dumped bloody clothes or other items into a dumpster, stay out in the light? Surely he'd lurk in the shadows, not sit where he'd definitely 'stick out like a sore thumb' to any passing motorists.

Yes, the older man might have been exhausted and in shock from what he may have been doing, assisting his son - he may well have needed a sit-down to gather his thoughts - he may well have put his head in his hands trying to figure out how things could end up so terribly (thus the old man looking upset at the roundabout as we've heard)...but why do it so visibly?

Like most of you, I'm stumped on this 'something out of place'/'unusual' at the roundabout.'

LOL, I'm just 'going round in circles'!!

 

[minni]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24489

Do you think that the QPS have the means to zoom in and identify anyone at that bus stop? enough to say without a doubt that its NBC?

If not, they might want to go to his house and look for any clothes belonging to NBC that match the clothes of a suspect seen sitting at the bus stop? they might want to take those clothes away with them for further testing?

also, this testing was done at 3.23 am. Is that because something was observed at that time? or did they go over and over repeating the same tests? Its getting towards the end of what would have been a damned busy night, so if NBC was at this bus stop, and that were his car, this would be a point where the finishing touches were going on. What could he be doing there now?

as Rational says, the more I know, the more I DONT know!!

 

[Thinking]

Apparently GBC maintened contact with TM after Allison was reported missing. This alleged communication included payphone, VoIP and email communications.
I wonder if the VoIP relates to more FaceTime or possibly Skype. Is there a Bruce Overland on Skype??

IMO/MOO etc

Do you think TM would have been bugged when he contacted her at this time? She was interviewed very early on, I'm sure the first long interview was when Allison was still missing?

 

[Thinking]

Yes, you're right - there is a bus stop there, although not one with a shelter or seats. And it can't be seen from the cameras, which face the other way (one along Moggill Rd heading towards town, and one along Moggil Rd inbound approaching the roundabout, monitoring that traffic stop light).

But I still can't see the lookout theory as being viable. What use would an alert be anyway? What would GBC have done? And that is a LONG way from Kholo Creek, or even the Anstead turnoff - a police vehicle could go anywhere between the roundabout and there. And if I were being posted there as a lookout, I'd be sitting in my car in the Coles carpark, out of sight, and ready to move again. Why sit in the bus stop at all?

I just don't get that whole Kenmore roundabout thing.....

:banghead:

Agreed. And if he was spotting there would be mobile phones involved, so this will come out later anyway - seems pointless to me though too.

 

[BJsleuth]

Well, the police were dumpster diving at one stage, maybe NBC was keeping watch while things were left somewhere that might have been left behind or missed.. maybe cleaning rags from when GBC returned from the creek?

 

[YoureNicked]

Agreed. And if he was spotting there would be mobile phones involved, so this will come out later anyway - seems pointless to me though too.

Exactly! The 'spotter' would need something to send a message to the one they were spotting for if someone was threatening to see them.

And you'd think mobile phones would have been left at home since they'd know they would be tracked/monitored for calls.

Maybe scouts have a method of signalling at night? Torches/flashlights?

Dunno!

 

[Mani]

just having a look at the summary on aussiecriminals and this bullet point struck me. I dont remember this piece of information. Does anyone recall or even have a link....yep, Marly, I'm looking at you


Summary of theories submitted thus far on where Allison was killed:

At a creek near Rafting Ground Road or at Rafting Ground Road (thus explaining the reported sighting of NGB and EBC at the scene days later).


I can't remember hearing this regarding Nigelaine. First time I have heard it from memory Min.