Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #33

[Mani]

Originally Posted by DrWatson
No, I don't buy the lookout thing either. What was he going to do anyway? Call GBC and say - quick, go the other way along Rafting Ground Rd?

And as for walking around the neighbourhood - the Kenmore roundabout is not really in "the neighbourhood" of where NBC lives. As I mentioned a couple of posts back - that's quite a hike up Kilkivan Avenue/Moggill Rd from where he lives to the roundabout.

Doc, I am with you on that. Is there a back way to Mt Crosby Road that would not see the need for him to sit in that lane turning right from Moggill Road????

Bump :bump:

Doc, I am with you on that. Is there a back way to Mt Crosby Road that would not see the need for him to sit in that lane turning right from Moggill Road????

I haven't heard from Doc Watson - can any of you locals supply us with this info??

I am interested in the most subvertive way, one could drive unseen onto Mt Crosby Road

 

[Fuskier]

i agree, nbc was probably overwhelmed and broken, hes an old man and its such a shocking thing to take in and deal with and imagine finding out this has happened in your family, getting called in the middle of the night, and you are now involved!
im wondering also, maybe he and gbc had argued either on the way there, or there at the roundabout, so he got gbc to drop or leave him there while gbc finished up on his own.

Very possible. One poster heard a 'commotion' and saw some vehicles parked on the opposite side of the road to her as she passed through the roundabout late that night. MOO.

 

[Seeking]

Photos taken yesterday at Kholo Bridge when creek was at low tide - the Little Ugly Creek meets the Kholo Creek near to the bridge and was running yesterday due to rain earlier in week -

Thanks for the photo's Mani. In the third picture, is that the Little Ugly Creek entering the Kholo Creek towards right of the main creek in the upper half of the photo. There looks like there is a splash of sun on the water in the part that I presume is Little Ugly.

Another question based on that third photo: Was Allison found on the same side of the creek that Little Ugly enters the Kholo?

 

[Mani]

Apparently GBC was the letting agent for a property close to where Allison was found.

Does anyone know if C21 had a rental listing on this road?

IMO/MOO etc

Whitechapel thanks for all of your great sleuthing

 

[Liadan]

Mani, Your pictures are wonderful! Thank you so much for the time and work you have put into these for all of us armchair sleuths.

I am thinking that NBC would be a 'mighty' patriarch, very overbearing fiery tempered. In my opinion I don't think he would demure to let GBC make decisions.

Maybe GBC and NBC argued about where to dump the body. They thought Kholo creek would be accessible therefore drove out to check this site out and had to give up the location because of the undergrowth. Then NBC with his scouting prowess suggested to use the upstream location. That would explain the car(s) being in the location of the bridge.

For the life of me I cannot work out the significance of NBC at this bus stop. I am trying to put into context as - what if he was playing bridge/cards with friends and needed a lift to get home after having a few drinks and then was picked up by GBC who told him that they were doing a few extra jobs that night. Maybe EBC used to pick him up after cards but GBC decided this would leave his mum out of it. What if NBC had been at a Freemason/City Social meeting and GBC was picking him up??? How and what has required NBC to be at the bus stop????

 

[marlywings]

:goodpost:

That theory works for me Marlywings! It could also reduce the chances of them both being caught. One gets pulled over for a random traffic stop or if something else happens and the other isn't with them so only one is noticed.

I should also have added, both cars return to Brookfield house to clean out the blood in Captiva....once they've realised they're going to have to go with the "she's gone for a walk"...GBC drops NBC at bus shelter...EBC picks him up from there....can't have that Captiva being seen at the BC's house.

So police were perhaps timing both Prado & Captiva going through roundabout on outbound trip....the return trip....& EBC's trip to pick up NBC from bus shelter.

 

[Kimster]

The next person that discusses another member, like 543 for example, gets at least a three day time out. It is a TOS violation to "sleuth" the identity of other members past or present. That's it. No conspiracy. Don't do it again and I don't care who you are, if you post about it again you'll just get your post removed and go on a time out.

 

[Mani]

Thanks for the photo's Mani. In the third picture, is that the Little Ugly Creek entering the Kholo Creek towards right of the main creek in the upper half of the photo. There looks like there is a splash of sun on the water in the part that I presume is Little Ugly. If you are referring to the picture called exposed bank #3 then yes - where that patch of light is, is where the Ugly Creek enters the Kholo - good sleuthing Seeking! BBM

Another question based on that third photo: Was Allison found on the same side of the creek that Little Ugly enters the Kholo?

Yes she was found on that same side.

 

[Mani]

The next person that discusses another member, like 543 for example, gets at least a three day time out. It is a TOS violation to "sleuth" the identity of other members past or present. That's it. No conspiracy. Don't do it again and I don't care who you are, if you post about it again you'll just get your post removed and go on a time out.

Thanks Kimster, now it makes sense. Cheers

 

[Makara]

Thanks Mani. This gives us some idea what Little Ugly Creek looks like. So the night of 19th April, before the huge downpour the next weekend, anyone know approximately how high the water level was at LUC?

BN, attached is the tide chart for Kholo Creek on 19 April. From what I understand Little Ugly Creek is not so much tidal, being a tributary of Kholo Creek but IMO the tidal ebb and flow would still have some effect on it.

As you can see, on Thursday 19 April high tide at Kholo Creek was at 11:32pm, running out to a low tide at 6:18am on Friday 20 April. IMO this would allow Little Ugly Creek to drain into Kholo Creek and not leave a lot of water in there at all. It would have been easy enough to walk into Little Ugly Creek and secrete Allison's body under the box culvert. IMO.

Irrespective of where GBC allegedly dumped Allison's body, he must have known about her fear of water. What a cruel and final insult to Allison to dump her body in or near a creek! But that same water that she so feared finally offered her up to be found and laid to rest with dignity.

I love Mother Nature.

 

[Curiousasacat]

A large contingent of SES volunteers and police set up camp at the scout grounds on Tuesday, scouring a massive area of bushland adjoining Kholo Creek, where the body was found, as well as Little Ugly Creek and Flaggy Creek.

Police identified what could have been drag marks near a dirt track leading into one of the creeks. They also found a mobile phone SIM card, but it was yet to be determined if either of the finds had any relevance to Mrs Baden-Clay's death.

Snipped

Police yesterday said they would like to hear from anyone who drove in the vicinity of the roundabout at the intersection of Brookfield and Moggill Rds, Kenmore, between 11.30pm on Thursday April 19 and 4am on Friday April 20.

Above BBM.
What do you guys think of Flaggy Creek being the "drop off" location?
Also "the vacinity" is interesting wording IMO.

http://www.qt.com.au/story/2012/05/03/police-find-suspected-drag-marks-near-creek/

 

[Curiousasacat]

Huge storm here. Have to say Bye,bye for now x

 

[Mani]

Muddies?

That just gave me an idea, if GBC waded in to get to that culvert, surely not without shoes on so he'd have a pair of wet (potentially muddy) shoes to either explain or dispose of?

BJS you can stand on the gravel bank there and that creek would probably not have been running when Allison disappeared MOO

 

[whitechapel]

Whitechapel thanks for all of your great sleuthing

Thanks Mani. You're welcome. Just my :twocents:

 

[DrWatson]

I was looking at google maps yesterday and the distance between NBC's house and the roundabout. It's only about 1 km, which to me doesn't seem too far to walk. I compared it to distance from my house to our local train station, again about 1 km, and this is an easy 15 minute walk.

At the risk of having your car involved with something as sinister as moving a body, or worse, I think a 1 km walk would not seem an unreasonable option.

Hi all Yes - it's only about a Km or so, but it is a fairly stiff uphill walk all the way up to the level bit of Moggill Rd at Kenmore.

I'm not suggesting he couldn't have done it - just that it would seem unlikely, when he would have been much less visible, just as hidden from home, and much less walking, just to go down to the bottom of his street and turn the corner. There's that bushland area down the end of Fortrose St, or even the bottom bit of Kilkivan Avenue. You can see it quite clearly on Google Maps as well as in real life of course.

Again, just suggesting that if it were me, and I wanted to meet somebody on the quiet, I'd go down there, rather than walk all the way up into Kenmore, into the brightly lit area, and where there are known cameras. It just doesn't make any sense at all to me. There just HAS to be another explanation for whatever happened (allegedly) at the roundabout....

 

[marlywings]

Hi all Yes - it's only about a Km or so, but it is a fairly stiff uphill walk all the way up to the level bit of Moggill Rd at Kenmore.

I'm not suggesting he couldn't have done it - just that it would seem unlikely, when he would have been much less visible, just as hidden from home, and much less walking, just to go down to the bottom of his street and turn the corner. There's that bushland area down the end of Fortrose St, or even the bottom bit of Kilkivan Avenue. You can see it quite clearly on Google Maps as well as in real life of course.

Again, just suggesting that if it were me, and I wanted to meet somebody on the quiet, I'd go down there, rather than walk all the way up into Kenmore, into the brightly lit area, and where there are known cameras. It just doesn't make any sense at all to me. There just HAS to be another explanation for whatever happened (allegedly) at the roundabout....

Wellll dear Doc...we've all had a go at it...your turn now...lol..

 

[DrWatson]

Bump :bump:

Doc, I am with you on that. Is there a back way to Mt Crosby Road that would not see the need for him to sit in that lane turning right from Moggill Road????

I haven't heard from Doc Watson - can any of you locals supply us with this info??

I am interested in the most subvertive way, one could drive unseen onto Mt Crosby Road

Hi Mani - sorry, I must have missed your question in the rush of trying to catch up. My word - this forum is prolific...!

The only way I know of to get onto that road without turning right at the McIntyre Riding Centre for the Disabled (which is the main Anstead Road turn) would be to go further out along Moggill Rd and then go via Kangaroo Gully Road. But I doubt that would be any better, and would be much more round about.

I have driven along that Anstead/Mt Crosby Road countless times, and I always get onto it by turning right off Moggill Rd at the Riding Centre. Yes it involves a right-turn slip lane, but at that hour of the night, you'd be straight into it, no waiting at all, I'd think.

 

[BJsleuth]

BJS you can stand on the gravel bank there and that creek would probably not have been running when Allison disappeared MOO

Thanks Mani and thankyou for the photos too, they're terrific! xxxx

 

[LauraMars]

As for the two car theory, if there were 3 or more people involved, that could explain the need for more than one car.

 

[Mani]

Hi Mani - sorry, I must have missed your question in the rush of trying to catch up. My word - this forum is prolific...!

The only way I know of to get onto that road without turning right at the McIntyre Riding Centre for the Disabled (which is the main Anstead Road turn) would be to go further out along Moggill Rd and then go via Kangaroo Gully Road. But I doubt that would be any better, and would be much more round about.

I have driven along that Anstead/Mt Crosby Road countless times, and I always get onto it by turning right off Moggill Rd at the Riding Centre. Yes it involves a right-turn slip lane, but at that hour of the night, you'd be straight into it, no waiting at all, I'd think.

Thanks Doc. I was looking at back roads that might have been taken to Mt Crosby Road i.e.
Pullenvale and Grandview Road