Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #33

[Maigret]

I saw a new Austalian movie yesterday The King is Dead a few very interesting scenes with ordinary people trying to work out what to do with a dead body
In view of this whole GBC thing it was thought provoking. It was also a very good movie we know the actor who played King. ( so that was one if the reasons we went but also Margaret and David gave it a thumbs up)
It's seemingly classified as Arthouse so not on everywhere well worth a movie visit (also helps support our local movie scene)

 

[Maigret]

I think LE would have had a harder time making the case without her for sure. She could have clammed up as GBC's family did and i'd be more disappointed if she'd done that. I think in the early days she was a suspect. Her co-operation was IMO why LE made the comment there would be no further arrests, but that was before the 12.20am Facetime call GBC made to NBC came to light. LE haven't said that changes anything but they haven't said it doesn't either.

Also that was from GBC 's and NBC's phones other phones may take a little longer ( I'm thinking that GBC's phone was first priority )
It's a long lengthy process isn't it - nothing like in the movies or crime shows
:banghead:

 

[minni]

It looks like its not only the forensic accountant that wasnt ready at the mention. This is probably old news, but I seem to miss a lot these days, then dont get a chance to catch up on my reading. But, when this information is known, is there any chance that any of it will be reported? perhaps the post mortem?

Mr Bolye said police were also in the process of obtaining a further 50 to 100 witness statements.
Mr Boyle said police were also waiting on computer and phone analysis, as well as results from the post-mortem.
"The post-mortem tests are outstanding ... the forensic pathologist was away last week and this week until Wednesday," he said.


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...nclay-delay-20120709-21q98.html#ixzz20j7IZD3T

 

[Curiousasacat]

Happy wear it for Allison day.....

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...kfield-community/story-e6freon6-1226426656580

Mrs Hudson said anyone could join in and some of the activities planned for the day included a High Tea in Singapore, a dress-up drive across Perth day care centres and a morning tea at Mt Coot-tha organised by Brookfield State School mums.

Listen and buy Three of a Kind at the iTunes store.

Are any of our members involved in this? Sounds like it. Good luck with the fundraising if you are here.

 

[BJsleuth]

Also that was from GBC 's and NBC's phones other phones may take a little longer ( I'm thinking that GBC's phone was first priority )
It's a long lengthy process isn't it - nothing like in the movies or crime shows
:banghead:

I know, CSI and shows like that have it all wrapped up in an hour but it's not like that outside the TV.

 

[BJsleuth]

It looks like its not only the forensic accountant that wasnt ready at the mention. This is probably old news, but I seem to miss a lot these days, then dont get a chance to catch up on my reading. But, when this information is known, is there any chance that any of it will be reported? perhaps the post mortem?

Mr Bolye said police were also in the process of obtaining a further 50 to 100 witness statements.
Mr Boyle said police were also waiting on computer and phone analysis, as well as results from the post-mortem.
"The post-mortem tests are outstanding ... the forensic pathologist was away last week and this week until Wednesday," he said.


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...nclay-delay-20120709-21q98.html#ixzz20j7IZD3T

It takes time to collect it all doesn't it? That's how it is when another party is involved and you have to wait for them to be available etc.

 

[linette]

I just heard a snippet of the song for Allison, written by a grade 11 student at Ipswich Grammar. It was on Sunrise} It was hard to make out the words... available on Itunes today? Money raised goes towards the fund I think it said... The girls, that is... not HIS.

 

[Fuskier]

I agree we need more facts but disagree with your interpretation of what real sleuthing is about. When detectives are 'sleuthing' they are gathering information in the process of obtaining facts. Some facts are ascertained quickly, but others have to be determined by a process of investigation. Some of that investigating is done on rumours or hearsay. They speculate on how plausible the rumour or hearsay might be, and begin to investigate, to attempt to verify what theyve been told. So on their whiteboard in the incident room they put up everything that is proven fact, and then they see where the gaps are, and where they have information that has to be checked out. Of, course, unlike us, there are staff or other police officers to do the checking. Gradually the put the pieces of their case together.

So I think we are doing real sleuthing just like the detectives - except we have some critical elements holding us back. We don't have the time or the authority to do all the checking required, essentially we are the dead end at which information stops. However on occasions there are a few things we can lawfully do, such as examine the area around the Kholo Bridge,

I think there is some good sleuthing happening here, and i dont see anything wrong with speculating on what might have happened, or why one, at this stage, wouldnt want to - isn't that the point of being here? It's not as if we are going to arrest or sentence anyone based on the information so why not give our theories a go and speculate about what might have happened, and which rumours are more credible than others? Isn't that the point?

Morning all.
Agree about the sleuthing comment ITSTHEVIBE. It like the old qualitative vs quantitative research methodology argument. Quantitative used to be the 'gold' standard and still is in medical/science fields, etc. However Qualitative research methods yeild much info in the psycho/social domain which is valuable. Some contemporary research combines both approaches now. So logic and facts, plus local rumour and speculation can yeild some info which all helps the investigation. The investigators rule in or out as they have access to the variables, contributing/negating factors, cross referencing, etc. IMO Both approaches are valuable and can work together. MOO.

 

[minni]

I just heard a snippet of the song for Allison, written by a grade 11 student at Ipswich Grammar. It was on Sunrise} It was hard to make out the words... available on Itunes today? Money raised goes towards the fund I think it said... The girls, that is... not HIS.

it is called three of a kind...its on youtube and she is a friend of the family...its beautiful, Grannie posted the links last night I will find it

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...kfield-community/story-e6freon6-1226426656580

 

[linette]

it is called three of a kind...its on youtube and she is a friend of the family...its beautiful, Grannie posted the links last night I will find it

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...kfield-community/story-e6freon6-1226426656580

Thanks for that. I was hoping it'd show up on youtube, as I'm hopeless with the Itune side of things. That's what my kids are for. I'm a youtube kinda gal!!

 

[grannie]

I think the real amount of GBC's debt is much greater than $1M. He owed large amounts to some people and banks, but statistically speaking, the distribution of his debt is highly skewed - it's the visible part of the iceberg. Such people usually owe small amounts to a lot of people, like $50-500, and those could be the mentioned in the press hundreds of statements of witnesses. JMO

 

[linette]

I think the real amount of GBC's debt is much greater than $1M. He owed large amounts to some people and banks, but statistically speaking, the distribution of his debt is highly skewed - it's the visible part of the iceberg. Such people usually owe small amounts to a lot of people, like $50-500, and those could be the mentioned in the press hundreds of statements of witnesses. JMO

Yes, I thought it was highly likely that there'd be a few more 'smaller' debts floating around. Who knows, could even be more of the larger ones. Tip of the iceberg... yes.
As I've said before , I think this is going to end up more than a murder case. Fraud perhaps, dodgy deals...and that alone could bring a whole lot more people down. hmmm. IMO

 

[Maigret]

Just been to the Justice page on FB - a poster there has`stated that they saw the three girls out with their maternal grandparents seeming happy.

 

[DrWatson]

I agree we need more facts but disagree with your interpretation of what real sleuthing is about. When detectives are 'sleuthing' they are gathering information in the process of obtaining facts. Some facts are ascertained quickly, but others have to be determined by a process of investigation. Some of that investigating is done on rumours or hearsay. They speculate on how plausible the rumour or hearsay might be, and begin to investigate, to attempt to verify what theyve been told. So on their whiteboard in the incident room they put up everything that is proven fact, and then they see where the gaps are, and where they have information that has to be checked out. Of, course, unlike us, there are staff or other police officers to do the checking. Gradually the put the pieces of their case together.

So I think we are doing real sleuthing just like the detectives - except we have some critical elements holding us back. We don't have the time or the authority to do all the checking required, essentially we are the dead end at which information stops. However on occasions there are a few things we can lawfully do, such as examine the area around the Kholo Bridge,

I think there is some good sleuthing happening here, and i dont see anything wrong with speculating on what might have happened, or why one, at this stage, wouldnt want to - isn't that the point of being here? It's not as if we are going to arrest or sentence anyone based on the information so why not give our theories a go and speculate about what might have happened, and which rumours are more credible than others? Isn't that the point?

Morning ITV I agree with you completely. I didn't meant to say anything otherwise in my post - it was mainly to demonstrate that we need to apply logical thinking to facts. I didn't mean to imply that speculating about the gaps in those facts was useless - not at all. As you say - that's what we're all doing on here.

One difference, though, is that the police speculate, and as you say, they then try to fill in those gaps in the intel thy have, with facts and evidence. We can't do that - we rely only on what we're drip fed by the MSM and the police or the courts.

My whole point was that despite all the theories and speculation, we need to be very careful not to get carried away with the idea that ANY of those theories is the truth. Because we just don't know. Some of the speculation, rumour, hearsay, partial bits of info, etc seem to take on a life of their own and after several pages here on WS seem to become accepted by many as being facts.

We do not know, for example, if NBC actually WAS up at the roundabout - we're assuming that he may have been, because of the police concentration on the place, and perhaps because there have been rumours about somebody having seen him there - they thought. It's only hearsay as far as WE know. The police may have it as fact. Or not.

But keep on speculating - each in their own way. My way would be to try and tie together the known facts, rather than suggesting too many "what if" situations that depend on things that we don't know. And that light bulb moment could happen quite suddenly.....

 

[FirstTimer]

Morning all,

For anyone who would like to download this. A 15 year old girl has written and recorded a song for Allison Baden Clay’s girls. All proceeds for the song will go to the Trust Fund set up for the girls on-going costs and education.

The song can be downloaded from iTunes. The details are as follows:

Artist: Georgia Horsley
Song: Three of a kind
Cost: $1.69.

Cheers,

 

[linette]

Morning ITV I agree with you completely. I didn't meant o say anything otherwise in my post - it was mainly to demonstrate that we need to apply logical thinking to facts. I didn't mean to imply that speculating about the gaps in those facts was useless - not at all. As you say - that's what we're all doing on here.

One difference, though, is that the police speculate, and as you say, they then try to fill in those gaps in the intel thy have, with facts and evidence. We can't do that - we rely only on what we're drip fed by the MSM and the police or the courts.

My whole point was that despite all the theories and speculation, we need to be very careful not to get carried away with the idea that ANY of those theories is the truth. Because we just don't know. Some of the speculation, rumour, hearsay, partial bits of info, etc seem to take on a life of their own and after several pages here on WS seem to become accepted by many as being facts.

We do not know, for example, if NBC actually WAS up at the roundabout - we're assuming that he may have been, because of the police concentration on the place, and perhaps becuase there have been rumours about somebody having seen him there - they thought. It's only hearsay as far as WE know. The police may have it as fact. Or not.

But keep on speculating - each in their own way. My way would be to try and tie together the known facts, rather than suggesting too many "what if" situations that depend on things that we don't know. And that light bulb moment could happen quite suddenly.....

I do understand what you're saying, but I think that sometimes you need to consider the 'what if's' ... especially when things aren't as they seem. I'm sure police have to consider the 'what if's' sometimes, it can help find the real reason behind something. IMO I think facts and what if's can go hand in hand at times.

 

[minni]

Just been to the Justice page on FB - a poster there has`stated that they saw the three girls out with their maternal grandparents seeming happy.

that is really wonderful news isnt it? I had a friend tell me when the little one (the wee bear, I think of her ) came back to class the other day she was in high spirits...it made my day!!

 

[Mountain Misst]

Pulp, perhaps look at it this way. Allison did NOT go for a walk that night. It is a total lie by GBC and there is no need to analyse is any further. It is complete and utter BS. Taking this into account, Allison's phone didn't go for 'a walk' either. It was disposed of after Allison's disposal and more than likely as an afterthought. There was an "oh ****" moment, "her phone! Gotta get rid of her phone." GBC deliberately left the phone switched on to back up his story of Allison going for a walk and led QPS, SES and everyone else involved on a wild goose chase. B*****D!

MOO.

Makara - technology has spoken a lot in this case. A family who "have" to be up the the latest will reveal all.
Consider this POSSIBLE IMO scenario:
I'm a very considerate wife and so before I phone him when he's away from home, I check to see that he's not busy and how do I do that? Because I have the latest technology at hand I go onto iCloud on my iPad/Laptop/Android and check the location of his phone. If he's in the office then I know I'm not disturbing him and I phone, conscience free.

One day I check and he's at a rental property that he's managing. That's strange I think. Then the penny drops. He's meeting that 'other woman'. He promised it was over. (alternative: Think I'll keep this to myself and catch him at it later - catch them in the act.) Or maybe I'll just confront him when he comes home.
He may of course snatch my phone off me, turn it off as it'll continue to ping my location. He has to dispose of it because the phone records my last location.

 

[BJsleuth]

Just been to the Justice page on FB - a poster there has`stated that they saw the three girls out with their maternal grandparents seeming happy.

That's great to hear Maigret! Thanks for letting us know.

 

[YoureNicked]

Just been to the Justice page on FB - a poster there has`stated that they saw the three girls out with their maternal grandparents seeming happy.

I'm so glad they are out of the dysfunctional and toxic B-C environment.