Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #35

[minni]

Like everyone here, the roundabout thing has been driving me crazy. Something/someone 'out of place' was seen there on the night Allison disappeared which is of interest to the case, the police told us. NBC was allegedly seen there sitting at the bus stop by more than one person, some posters here told us.

But why Kenmore roundabout, all the locals ask, when it's far from being the most direct route to Kholo Creek from GBC's house? Plus, it's also probably the busiest and most well-lit place for miles around at that time of night.

What if -

GBC rings NBC at 12.20 am using Facecall to ask him to quietly drive out so as not to wake everyone and meet him at the Brookfield roundabout, not Kenmore, and NBC gets it wrong.

NBC drives to the Kenmore roundabout and waits in the car for ages, and/or sits at the bus stop (how would he ever sit in such a public place unless he was unaware of what he was about to be asked to do?). GBC finally turns up (or maybe does not turn up at all?)

"What do you mean you were waiting for me for ages?" says NBC, "I was here the whole time! I was about to ring you even though you made me promise I wouldn't and Facecall would not work from here. The Brookfield roundabout?? Why would you want me to meet you at the Brookfield roundabout when your house is just there? The Brookfield roundabout is not on the way to anywhere and you said you needed me to drive with you to a certain place. Do you want me to follow you in my car [maybe driving OW's car]? Sure, just tell me what this is all about first. Is that Allison sleeping in the back seat? Not sleeping, what, is she sick? You're pointing the wrong way, then. The hospitals are that way. Son, what's going on? .... What?!"

Terrible image there, sorry. Became very real to me as I wrote it.

thats a good thought......NBC could possibly have messed up the instructions. especially if you believe the dementia stories (I don't feel overly confident about them...every single story every told, has portrayed him as shrewd, sharp, angry and determined)

But, on the flipside, I realise these stories are likely two years old or more, and dementia or alzheimers doesn't need that long to affect someone)Good thinking, but as always, we are just throwing around a million ideas with no one to bump us where we need to go!!!!!

 

[littlethings]

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2012/04/30/1226343/140509-kholo-creek-bridge.jpg
this image definitely shows low tide. so obviously she was found during low tide. MOO of course

if she had washed down from upstream, then wouldn't it make sense that she would be higher up the bank? something gnawing at my brain, but I cant figure it out yet. It's not coming. If Allison's body came down the river during a downpour, how fast did this happen? the way it has been discussed, it always comes across to me like it was pretty fast.

BUT, when I picture her body moving from a high tide position (ie up higher along the bank), then I picture the very slow moving of the tide from high to low, and I picture her body, very very slowly, bobbing and eddying with the water as the tide lowers. I don't mean to paint a huge visual and graphic image here, but the two dont go together, and like I said, I don't know where I am going here with this, but I keep coming back to the bridge being the place she was left.

Does any of this make sense??

Yes minni it does make sense. I live on the Hunter river, and I mean right ON the Hunter River. Whilst I know nothing at all about the technicalities of tides I do know what I see. Sometimes there will be an object, it could be something as big a tree trunk or as small as a crab trap or a beach towel that will continually be taken down to the low water mark by the high tide only to return to actual river bank, (dry land,) with the high tide. Sometimes it will be there for weeks, even months, just bobbing about, moving a little bit out then washing back up. I believe that the place where she was found was the place she was left. My opinion only. Definitely NOT fact.
PS. A river is quite different from a creek. For instance we always know when we are going to be flooded because it takes days for the flood waters to reach us and all the while the flood waters are building momentum. A creek affected by heavy rain will act quite differently. A creek will flood quickly, run quickly and stop running just as quickly, so the actual time that the creek is running powerfully is limited.

 

[linette]

Yes, I hadn't seen it before. For me, I have always believed she was left at the bridge, not further upstream. I know that the evidence we have points to further upstream, and I know that the majority believe she washed down and landed right under the bridge. Something I cant yet put my finger on stops me from believing it, even though everything points to Wirra Burra Road being the most logical and sensible place to go (at least in that very small area)
But I am going to keeping thinking it over, till something fits

I'm torn between the 2 scenarios. At first I even thought perhaps Allison was somewhere else for a while and they later moved her there... but then as others said, he'd be stupid {which he seems to be} to do that with police already suss on him.

Not knowing the actual area well myself doesn't help, but the pictures do a little bit. Then again, some of you have actually been there and got a feel for the area, which is so much better than only looking at the pics.

Even if either scenario seems unlikely, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Strange things do happen.

You are right in saying something doesn't fit. I can't put my finger on it either. I doubt very much that I'll be the one to figure it out... haha.

It is good to question what we think, as none of us have any idea what did happen... there is at least one person out there who does however and at the moment that person is not telling anyone anything.

 

[minni]

I'm torn between the 2 scenarios. At first I even thought perhaps Allison was somewhere else for a while and they later moved her there... but then as others said, he'd be stupid {which he seems to be} to do that with police already suss on him.

Not knowing the actual area well myself doesn't help, but the pictures do a little bit. Then again, some of you have actually been there and got a feel for the area, which is so much better than only looking at the pics.

Even if either scenario seems unlikely, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Strange things do happen.

You are right in saying something doesn't fit. I can't put my finger on it either. I doubt very much that I'll be the one to figure it out... haha.

It is good to question what we think, as none of us have any idea what did happen... there is at least one person out there who does however and at the moment that person is not telling anyone anything.

minni thanks linni for this useful post :what:

 

[minni]

I know I am kind of talking to myself here, but I have one more thing to say.........

when QPS at first stated that they were considering the fact that Allison's body may have been washed down from further upstream, I truly believe that at this point the detectives were discussing, bandied around, considering all options, and generally discussing what might have happened. most importantly, at this early stage, I do think they would have had to get in a lot of experts in forensics...not just the initial clever and awesome analysts, but experts in specifics.

for example, expert meteorologists, expert creek and river 'specialty dudes', expert statistical dudes, expert entomology dudes, expert dermatologist dudes, expert butterfly injury analysts, expert blood spatter dudes.....
as you can see the list is extensive. and, my point is that when we were given statements via msm, it was coming direct from the detectives in the first day or so. They were guessing as much as we...albeit, with a million more resources and a million more seasoned expert dudes!!!!!!
still, until they get the info, they dont got the info, if you know what I mean

and although its kind of lonely right now talking to myself, I feel safe in the knowledge that sometime over the next day or so, someone will read this and say 'oh yeah, I totally get minnis late night ramblings

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

It looks too thin and flimsy to be the proper car mat, but it could be a bit of tarp. If they thought it was important and from the car I don't think they'd be just pushing it around on the ground.

I think they were pushing it around with a stick, to assess what it was and whether it may have been important. I think by doing this rather than picking it up and touching it, it was avoiding contaminating it if it was potentially evidence. MOO. It could very likely be just a bit of rubbish having been dumped or washed down there, but at the same time may have been important. I guess we won't know yet..it doesn't go on to show in the video clip whether they decided it was indeed useful..

 

[Maigret]

Yes Mani...I cannot blend together the image of fast rushing water, with the very slow ebbing of the tide that would place her there once the water reached low tide in time for the canoeist to see her.

In addition to that...I am skeptical that at low tide a canoeist chooses to 'canoe' with all the additional debris etc. Remember the canoeist log diary I found? they specifically talked about troublesome dead trees and logs and difficulty manouvering.

I cant say what is bugging me yet, only that it sbeen bugging me for ages. At the bridge, I was sure she had been left there, remember? and its not going away, only now Im getting a nagging about it too.

BUT, I don't know if I'm Arthur or Martha sometimes and nothing I think, say or do should be taken seriously!!!!!

And there was that poster here who quite early on when Allison was still missing who said they got a 'feeling' when going over the bridge

Found it

Quote:

I'm out this way and I kept getting eerie feelings around Kholo Creek overpass. I know it probably sounds silly, but its the 'what if.'

Posted by Alicat

 

[littlethings]

I know I am kind of talking to myself here, but I have one more thing to say.........

when QPS at first stated that they were considering the fact that Allison's body may have been washed down from further upstream, I truly believe that at this point the detectives were discussing, bandied around, considering all options, and generally discussing what might have happened. most importantly, at this early stage, I do think they would have had to get in a lot of experts in forensics...not just the initial clever and awesome analysts, but experts in specifics.

for example, expert meteorologists, expert creek and river 'specialty dudes', expert statistical dudes, expert entomology dudes, expert dermatologist dudes, expert butterfly injury analysts, expert blood spatter dudes.....
as you can see the list is extensive. and, my point is that when we were given statements via msm, it was coming direct from the detectives in the first day or so. They were guessing as much as we...albeit, with a million more resources and a million more seasoned expert dudes!!!!!!
still, until they get the info, they dont got the info, if you know what I mean

and although its kind of lonely right now talking to myself, I feel safe in the knowledge that sometime over the next day or so, someone will read this and say 'oh yeah, I totally get minnis late night ramblings

Oh yeah, I totally get minnis late night ramblings. Sorry, couldn't help myself and yes I know what you mean. Lots of expert advice to come from these guys.

 

[littlethings]

I'm torn between the 2 scenarios. At first I even thought perhaps Allison was somewhere else for a while and they later moved her there... but then as others said, he'd be stupid {which he seems to be} to do that with police already suss on him.

Not knowing the actual area well myself doesn't help, but the pictures do a little bit. Then again, some of you have actually been there and got a feel for the area, which is so much better than only looking at the pics.

Even if either scenario seems unlikely, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Strange things do happen.

You are right in saying something doesn't fit. I can't put my finger on it either. I doubt very much that I'll be the one to figure it out... haha.

It is good to question what we think, as none of us have any idea what did happen... there is at least one person out there who does however and at the moment that person is not telling anyone anything.

Yes, linette and it is because that person did not co operate with police that information has been scarce. I think when GBC decided not to talk so did the Queensland Police. Two can play that game and so far the police have given GBC nothing to go on. The information that has been given by the police is only what they want GBC to know - this leaves him in the dark, he hasn't got a clue what they DO or DO NOT know so when he is hit with it he will go into the now famous " GBC story telling mode," and stuff it all up. My opinion only. NOT FACT.

 

[minni]

Good morning

Im still rambling this morning!! I am still trying to connect the dots here with the tides. so far I have this:

http://tides.willyweather.com.au/qld/brisbane/brisbane-river--kholo-creek.html

30th May, low tide was at 1.44 and was .7 metres. If she was found around 11.00, the tide was at 1.1 metres. where does that put her in relation to waters edge
The police are at the bridge in the footage we have in the afternoon because the shadows are cast from the west, they seem to be mid afternoon as they are not short, but not really long yet either.

http://tides.willyweather.com.au/qld/brisbane/brisbane-river--kholo-creek.html

14th July low tide at 3.02pm and it was 0.6 metres. Even at 1pm it was low and at 0.8 metres
(I will link the photos taken by Mani on this day and compare)

http://tides.willyweather.com.au/qld/brisbane/brisbane-river--kholo-creek.html

8th July low tide was 0.5 metres at 10.30am. We were there at 1pm and the tide was 1.2 metres.
(I will link Mani's photos from this day too)



Also found this link, which suggests its best to canoe at Kholo only at high tide

https://sites.google.com/site/acaciacanoes/trip-preparation/flat/trip-information---flat-water


Brisbane River – Colleges Crossing to Jindalee

Details:* The section below Colleges Crossing is probably best explored as an 8km up-and-back trip from Kookaburra Park – mainly because *advertiser censored*suspended pipe (only navigable at high tide when the pipe is submerged) with a muddy and very*slippery portage around it, is inconveniently located just below the Crossing.* From Kookaburra Park it is 9.5km down to Joseph Brady Park – not a particularly 'canoe friendly'*access point due to mud, but usable if necessary.* There are several small side creeks in this section (notably Kholo Creek, 3.9km downstream) that are certainly worth exploring on a high tide.* It is a further 8.7km down to Richardson Park.* For reasons that should be immediately apparent upon observing the operation of the Moggill ferry (1.6km downstream from Joseph Brady Park), it is imperative that canoeists ensure the ferry is in a stationary position against the bank and that they are clearly visible to the ferry master, before passing over its partially-submerged running cables.*

Anyway, not sure where I am going with this yet, just trying to get a feel for the tide and water flow I think

 

[Mountain Misst]

Any drink in the desert is welcome is it not?

Last evening from QPS Inspector's mouth (speaking to me personally), "Forget the missing hands. There is a lot more to come out."
I know we've heard, spoken about, and chewed over all this before, however it's a new source so sharing to uplift us all.

Avagudwun team. xox

 

[linette]

I know I am kind of talking to myself here, but I have one more thing to say.........

when QPS at first stated that they were considering the fact that Allison's body may have been washed down from further upstream, I truly believe that at this point the detectives were discussing, bandied around, considering all options, and generally discussing what might have happened. most importantly, at this early stage, I do think they would have had to get in a lot of experts in forensics...not just the initial clever and awesome analysts, but experts in specifics.

for example, expert meteorologists, expert creek and river 'specialty dudes', expert statistical dudes, expert entomology dudes, expert dermatologist dudes, expert butterfly injury analysts, expert blood spatter dudes.....
as you can see the list is extensive. and, my point is that when we were given statements via msm, it was coming direct from the detectives in the first day or so. They were guessing as much as we...albeit, with a million more resources and a million more seasoned expert dudes!!!!!!
still, until they get the info, they dont got the info, if you know what I mean

and although its kind of lonely right now talking to myself, I feel safe in the knowledge that sometime over the next day or so, someone will read this and say 'oh yeah, I totally get minnis late night ramblings

YES!! I do totally get your late night rambling... actually, yes I do.:what:

As you said, there would have been so many dudes running around...

but really, you are right. and when you think about it that's a heck of alot of information to get back. Phew!!! Til you wrote about it I hadn't actually thought about just how many 'dudes' they would have needed. And then you think... wow... all it would have taken NOT to need ALL of them, would be for one male person with ego problems to come forward and just tell the truth.
Now, Linni thanks Minni for her useful post. :floorlaugh:

 

[minni]

Any drink in the desert is welcome is it not?

Last evening from QPS Inspector's mouth, "Forget the missing hands. There is a lot more to come out."
I know we've heard, spoken about, and chewed over all this before, however it's a new source so sharing to uplift us all.

Avagudwun team. xox

Really Mountain?? can you link it? or is it inside info?

this is WOW!!!! its almost a fountain rather than a drink after this dry spell?

It sounds like verification of the missing hands to me, does it to you?
he is saying the hands aren't the only thing going on here, meaning the hands are inclusive of a lot more, otherwise IMO he would have said something against that rumuor, like they weren't missing, but there is a lot more going on?

 

[linette]

Really Mountain?? can you link it? or is it inside info?

this is WOW!!!! its almost a fountain rather than a drink after this dry spell?

It sounds like verification of the missing hands to me, does it to you?
he is saying the hands aren't the only thing going on here, meaning the hands are inclusive of a lot more, otherwise IMO he would have said something against that rumuor, like they weren't missing, but there is a lot more going on?

Same here!! I read it and thought, "Was this info last night or have I totally missed something along the way?"
Did they actually say that?

 

[linette]

Any drink in the desert is welcome is it not?

Last evening from QPS Inspector's mouth (speaking to me personally), "Forget the missing hands. There is a lot more to come out."
I know we've heard, spoken about, and chewed over all this before, however it's a new source so sharing to uplift us all.

Avagudwun team. xox

:what: When was this said? Was it last night?

 

[Mountain Misst]

Really Mountain?? can you link it? or is it inside info?

this is WOW!!!! its almost a fountain rather than a drink after this dry spell?

It sounds like verification of the missing hands to me, does it to you?
he is saying the hands aren't the only thing going on here, meaning the hands are inclusive of a lot more, otherwise IMO he would have said something against that rumuor, like they weren't missing, but there is a lot more going on?

He wouldn't tell me any more. I heard it as meaning that the missing hands was a furfy, rumour and nothing more. His lips were tightly sealed despite my plying him with alcohol...lol

 

[DrWatson]

Any drink in the desert is welcome is it not?

Last evening from QPS Inspector's mouth (speaking to me personally), "Forget the missing hands. There is a lot more to come out."
I know we've heard, spoken about, and chewed over all this before, however it's a new source so sharing to uplift us all.

Avagudwun team. xox

Morning all

Funny how different minds read things different ways. I didn't read that as "confirming" the missing hands theory at all - I read it as the complete opposite. And with me being a male, as presumably the quoted Inspector was too, we tend to say and hear things LITERALLY, unlike all you girls who look for the hidden meanings and read stuff into things.

So - I would take that as exactly what he allegedly said - forget the missing hands. As in - the hands were NOT missing. Which I have never thought for one minute. I can't see GBC doing that - as I said, unless using a meat cleaver type instrument, it's not quite that easy to remove hands. And for what reason? I really, really doubt that he would have been thinking "Hang on - there might be some of my skin under the finger nails - I think I'll just whip off the hands in case". Nope - that doesn't work for me at all.

So, if the Inspector said as quoted, I would take that to mean the hands were NOT missing, but that there is other stuff to come out which we haven't heard about yet (thinking.....??? clingfilm??? hmmmm)

But that's just my logical and literal male brain working there. I have to say I was a bit surprised when the comments immediately following the alleged quote jumped to the exact opposite conclusion....!

Typical female thing to do (kidding! Now ducking for incoming flak) :blushing:

 

[linette]

He wouldn't tell me any more. I heard it as meaning that the missing hands was a furfy, rumour and nothing more. His lips were tightly sealed despite my plying him with alcohol...lol

... couldn't you have tried to sneak off with his briefcase or something? ...or casually go through his phone while he wasn't looking?? :floorlaugh:

 

[linette]

Morning all

Funny how different minds read things different ways. I didn't read that as "confirming" the missing hands theory at all - I read it as the complete opposite. And with me being a male, as presumably the quoted Inspector was too, we tend to say and hear things LITERALLY, unlike all you girls who look for the hidden meanings and read stuff into things.

So - I would take that as exactly what he allegedly said - forget the missing hands. As in - the hands were NOT missing. Which I have never thought for one minute. I can't see GBC doing that - as I said, unless using a meat cleaver type instrument, it's not quite that easy to remove hands. And for what reason? I really, really doubt that he would have been thinking "Hang on - there might be some of my skin under the finger nails - I think I'll just whip off the hands in case". Nope - that doesn't work for me at all.

So, if the Inspector said as quoted, I would take that to mean the hands were NOT missing, but that there is other stuff to come out which we haven't heard about yet (thinking.....??? clingfilm??? hmmmm)

But that's just my logical and literal male brain working there. I have to say I was a bit surprised when the comments immediately following the alleged quote jumped to the exact opposite conclusion....!

Typical female thing to do (kidding! Now ducking for incoming flak) :blushing:

... and I guess too, that because Mountain Mist was there, she/he {sorry, I forget what gender you are, haha} actually heard the way it was said, which would come across differently than us reading it.
It depends on how "Forget the missing hands" was said.
But I do agree, I took it as meaning that maybe they weren't.... and I'm a female. lol

I'll just add that I didn't jump to the conclusion they were missing... I was just VERY excited because someone has finally said something again... after all of this time!!

 

[Aunty]

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8016985&postcount=790"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 #18[/ame]


Minni this may help.
Thanks to Makara for this post from way back.