Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #36

[minni]

Very, very difficult for them.

Unexpected occurrence of daughter missing - shock/stress
Body of daughter found (unexpected murder) - dealing with major shock and grief
Accused is son-in-law - major shock/anger.
Children are left without mother & father - trauma.
Children are now being cared for by them, elderly grandparents - major adjustment, combined grief and shock for all and burden of unexpected expectations of meeting their VERY fragile ongoing needs.
Dickies had to move - major stress and adjustment.
Dickie's have to deal with ongoing investigation and tidying up Allison's affairs - major stress.
Health problems - Dickies dealing with emotional fallout of grief that often creates havoc on elderly physical bodies.
Total life change for entire family of Dickies and Allison's children - anxiety.

Not to mention the many things I haven't had time to write here but feel sure you'd all get my drift as to how unfair, cruel and difficult this is for them and the girls.

I bet the senior BCs do feel awkward - and if GBC is guilty they should feel despicable if they were involved somehow.

Yes, all of the above, but they are also going through other personal traumas.
I think that there is a real fear for the children in the event that GBC is released. I think there is a bigger concern with trying to maintain custody. I dont know how it works but it must have to be reviewed in situations like this. how unsettling and upsetting.

These wonderful and steadfast people have stepped up and done whatever is necessary to make this situation as easy and uninterrupted as possible for the girls. they have put their own hurt and heartache, upheaval and turmoil, aside completely, whilst they focused on how to help the girls through this.

It would be devastating and overwhelming for anyone, but to have to do this at a time when you should be enjoying your time together after all your hard work, raising your own kids, is too much IMO. Every time I think of the Dickies, I think of my own mum and dad. They too, are wonderful, steadfast, responsible and loving. They would do the same thing without thought, but it breaks my heart to think of the stress it would put them under. I feel a similar sense of pride and admiration and even love for Geoff and Priscilla Dickie. They are true blue aussies, and dont question what needs to be done, they just do it.

I have a lot more to say on this, but as I type I am feeling overwhelmed with the reality of what this family is having to endure. (like I said, they have had more heartache to deal with)
I am just talking about one tiny aspect of their life. There is of course, the murder of their daughter to consider. Amongst many other things.
God Bless them

 

[marlywings]

The drawings are quite important. I do a LOT of this sort of work with traumatized children. Over the years my experience has been that children will frequently draw the parent prior to the event that occurred causing the trauma. I speak in terms of appearance. Whilst it is certainly possible they weren't home, however if they were and did see her new hair colour it is still possible that the hair was drawn red as that is their most dominant memory of their mother. What I would like to know is if all 3 drew the hair red ? Haven't seen the drawing you refer to so can't comment. Also, I wonder what colour the hair was drawn in subsequent pictures after her death and the funeral. It is possible also that the younger might draw red hair as typically the younger they are the less likely they are to notice things - but of course not always and if pointed out then that may negate my comment.

The drawings children do are critically important in managing trauma and in criminal matters. As a psychologist I have done much training in art therapy and play therapy. It is used as a non threatening tool providing a medium in which children may open up. The art and play are not directed...it occurs (or doesn't occur) completely as the child directs it. It cannot be a leading process. It must come from the child or not at all. Coercion is unethical and a breach as are leading questions.

Thanks pulpfiction...yes I remember you mentioning your work with children via play...the drawings are on this link, ...would be interested to know what you think of them but maybe I'll have to check with Kimster or Summer first.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/gallery-e6frer9f-1226336989408?page=30

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/gallery-e6frer9f-1226336989408?page=11

 

[marlywings]

Yes, all of the above, but they are also going through other personal traumas.
I think that there is a real fear for the children in the event that GBC is released. I think there is a bigger concern with trying to maintain custody. I dont know how it works but it must have to be reviewed in situations like this. how unsettling and upsetting.

These wonderful and steadfast people have stepped up and done whatever is necessary to make this situation as easy and uninterrupted as possible for the girls. they have put their own hurt and heartache, upheaval and turmoil, aside completely, whilst they focused on how to help the girls through this.

It would be devastating and overwhelming for anyone, but to have to do this at a time when you should be enjoying your time together after all your hard work, raising your own kids, is too much IMO. Every time I think of the Dickies, I think of my own mum and dad. They too, are wonderful, steadfast, responsible and loving. They would do the same thing without thought, but it breaks my heart to think of the stress it would put them under. I feel a similar sense of pride and admiration and even love for Geoff and Priscilla Dickie. They are true blue aussies, and dont question what needs to be done, they just do it.

I have a lot more to say on this, but as I type I am feeling overwhelmed with the reality of what this family is having to endure. (like I said, they have had more heartache to deal with)
I am just talking about one tiny aspect of their life. There is of course, the murder of their daughter to consider. Amongst many other things.
God Bless them

Great post minni....it is as you say, overwhelming to think about what that poor family is going through & will go through for the rest of their lives.The broken hearts left behind is just so incredibly sad...& all for what...money!?!?...just can't fathom it.

 

[Makara]

Indeed, Liadan. GBC seems to go for independent women with money. I beleive this is what attracted him to both Allison and TM. I believe IMO they were meal tickets. A financial means for him to advance himself.

I think the flings with floozy's were sexually motivated. I dont beleive that to be the case with TM and Allison. IMO.

Welcome Tishy

Totally agree Observer. From what we've learned, GBC was having an ongoing affair with TM for over four years and as someone mentioned, that's not an affair, that's a relationship, albeit a part time relationship.

I'm wondering if TM has now learned that GBC lied to the police about their 'affair', telling them that it was over, hence negating her in his life. Does she also know that GBC was very stressed about the Courier Mail revealing his affair with TM, as was mentioned in a previous thread by someone who overheard talk at the Brookfield Show? What, he doesn't love her enough to stand up and say so? Of course not! I also wonder how TM felt when she saw OW on TV saying "Gerard loves Allison."? And I have no doubt that TM saw those ridiculous interviews.

When exactly did TM wake up and realise that she was being played for a fool and a convenience by GBC? I think she had a fair idea from the start of their relationship and IMO she's as bad as he is, they used each other. She wasn't so much upset over the revelation of GBC's other affairs, she was more concerned about her own arse being connected to this despicable murder.

Personally I can't wait to hear what she reveals on the witness stand when this case eventually goes to trial.

MOO.

 

[Completelyconfused]

Great post minni....it is as you say, overwhelming to think about what that poor family is going through & will go through for the rest of their lives.The broken hearts left behind is just so incredibly sad...& all for what...money!?!?...just can't fathom it.

I've seen them at dancing and outwardly they look good. However you notice the stoop that Geoff now has, the anxiety on their faces, the uncomfortableness of people staring and being the subject of talk. I think the Dickie family as a whole is absolutely amazing. They are all living together to get through this. What Allisons sister and brother have given up to assist as well is just mind blowing. How sad that Allison didn't feel she could lean on this wonderful family in her time of need. How awful that GBC in his revolting treatment of her made her doubt their love and acceptance for her.

My scuttlebutt is that they have custody of the girls till the end of the year and then it will be reviewed. During that time the BC family has absolutely no access. After this OW will be given supervised access but only OW. I think this will be very stressful for them....all the what ifs etc

My belief is that there is more to come regarding charges etc for the BC's to have been cleanly cut out in this fashion. Clearly those in the know believe that they would unduly influence the girls in some way.

Interestingly the girls are not completely in the know about where GBC is and why. The Dickies whatever their beliefs and feelings have maintained some "fairytale" for the girls. Obviously being back at school and in the public arena they will hear things but clearly at home it is all about support and love and not overt GBC bashing. I bow to them on this one - I'm not sure I could do it!!

All of course MOO

 

[pulpfiction]

I think that there is a real fear for the children in the event that GBC is released. I think there is a bigger concern with trying to maintain custody. I dont know how it works but it must have to be reviewed in situations like this. how unsettling and upsetting.

These wonderful and steadfast people have stepped up and done whatever is

Allioop is the one to assist me here. I must be dreadfully behind. GBC ppssibly released? When? Has something new transpired? My understanding is that he is in for a while until if/when the decision is made to proceed to trial I thought. Am I wrong?

Custody and/or guardianship would be temporary. No one would change things at present is my opinion. And not anytime soon. Stability is absolutely crucial for their fragile mental health. Hence the move back to Brookfield & familiar pursuits. The BCs a doubtful option however they have rights as grandparents also. Psychs are often consulted in these children's matterS for an independent perspective. I've done many over the past 25 years. There is no way I'd be rushing anything even if he's innocent. Over time their trust in him will potentially erode - depending on their understanding of course. Would be hard to feel safe for most kids.

IF he is eventually found not guilty well that is difficult. Some men in those circumstances leave the children where they've been and have visits. On a short or long term basis. They don't want kids upset either.

Actually best not to comment more on the children IMO

 

[Fuskier]

Very, very difficult for them...

Pulpfiction, you've named it all right there: major shock, trauma, multiple grief, major loss, complex anxieties and major adjustment with all the challenges of elderly grandparents and the challenges of the developmental stages of the three children. This newly formed family could benefit from 'hands on' support with the practical tasks such as laundry tasks, changing sheets, making beds, shopping tasks, etc to support them on their important journey. At their age and stage in life, they need practical support to meet practical needs and grief counselling therapy/support to meet complex mental and emotional challenges ahead. Together they can do it, with love and support and secure attachment; but better with practical support to relieve the burden of those daily back breaking tasks. Somebody to cook a meal once or twice a week would be of benefit to this family. God knows that they have enough of an emotional burden to deal with. Hope that some of Allison's best friends can provide practical support with transportinig the girls to/from school and afterschool activities etc. They are fortunate to live amongst a supportive and caring local community. This is the best gift they have been given. My opinion only.

 

[AAAA]

I believe the custody arrangement is reviewed every six weeks.

 

[pulpfiction]

Thanks pulpfiction...yes I remember you mentioning your work with children via play...the drawings are on this link, ...would be interested to know what you think of them but maybe I'll have to check with Kimster or Summer first.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/gallery-e6frer9f-1226336989408?page=30

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/gallery-e6frer9f-1226336989408?page=11

Thanks. Just looked at them. Red is the predominant texta used in all the drawings it seems. The first one is all red but Allison's hair to me looks like it is red with blonde streaks.

 

[pulpfiction]

My scuttlebutt is that they have custody of the girls till the end of the year and then it will be reviewed. During that time the BC family has absolutely no access. After this OW will be given supervised access but only OW. I think this will be very stressful for them....all the what ifs etc

My belief is that there is more to come regarding charges etc for the BC's to have been cleanly cut out in this fashion. Clearly those in the know believe that they would unduly influence the girls in some way.

Interestingly the girls are not completely in the know about where GBC is and why. The Dickies whatever their beliefs and feelings have maintained some "fairytale" for the girls. Obviously being back at school and in the public arena they will hear things but clearly at home it is all about support and love and not overt GBC bashing. I bow to them on this one - I'm not sure I could do it!!

All of course MOO

Thanks, most informative.

That is what I would have recommended from what I know 100%. I always recommend supervised contact in these circumstances. I wonder how much presence OW had in their lives given she lived in another city? As for the BC seniors...too much unknown at present to comment but I'd be very wary of them having any contact. With most kids we only tell them on a need to know basis and of course there is much they wouldn't be told even of asked. Tis a delicate balance in not lying versus not harming when they have been through so much. Very fragile yet outwardly strong hopefully as they are rightfully so protected with good reason. The older girls will know more but still may not ask as they fear the truth. Very common to suppress what they know

 

[Rational]

Allioop is the one to assist me here. I must be dreadfully behind. GBC ppssibly released? When? Has something new transpired? My understanding is that he is in for a while until if/when the decision is made to proceed to trial I thought. Am I wrong?

Custody and/or guardianship would be temporary. No one would change things at present is my opinion. And not anytime soon. Stability is absolutely crucial for their fragile mental health. Hence the move back to Brookfield & familiar pursuits. The BCs a doubtful option however they have rights as grandparents also. Psychs are often consulted in these children's matterS for an independent perspective. I've done many over the past 25 years. There is no way I'd be rushing anything even if he's innocent. Over time their trust in him will potentially erode - depending on their understanding of course. Would be hard to feel safe for most kids.

IF he is eventually found not guilty well that is difficult. Some men in those circumstances leave the children where they've been and have visits. On a short or long term basis. They don't want kids upset either.

Actually best not to comment more on the children IMO

BBM

I completely agree. The children or their welfare is IMO taken care of and should not be part of a discussion as to what is or what is not happening. It will put stress on the custodians as well as on those within the Child Safety paradigm who despite being stretched to the limit will be trying to do their utmost to ensure their well being.

 

[Makara]

Losing a daughter and a mother within months would be absolutely devastating to Pricilla and Geoff Dickie. I would guess that the girls also knew their great grandmother and that is doubly sad for them also.

I'm so hoping that this case is expedited so that the Dickies, the girls and the extended families can eventually move forward to find closure and healing from this heartbreak.

 

[possumheart]

I'm so hoping that this case is expedited so that the Dickies, the girls and the extended families can eventually move forward to find closure and healing from this heartbreak.

I would think it is all in the hands of forensic accountants now. Hoping they are well resourced so it can all move forward.

 

[pulpfiction]

Sorry...major glitch in the matrix so couldn't get back on here

 

[pulpfiction]

Thanks MarlyWings

Whilst I could speculate on the drawings it wouldn't be worth much and i feel it would be professionally inappropriate of me to do so. I say it wouldn't be worth much because in order to attempt to gain an understanding what a child is attempting to express (or might be or could be interpreted as) truly requires much focus on body language, voice intonation, style of play and how the drawings are done or how the play eventuates. Observation is critically important and even then I frequently (with consent) go away and watch the video footage over and over of the play. With drawings its a little different. Often children, who I have built good rapport with, feel a sense of trust after a while and will often ask me can they tell me what they drew but every child is different. It takes a while before I even attempt it as a therapy to introduce. But often it creates a division a d that can bring quiet sense of peace for some. Some kids are quite aggressive with play and drawings can be macabre obviously. Some are highly sexualised in the work I do also - sad

What I can say at a glance, and it's just IMO, is that the 1st drawing to me represents how loved Allison was. The "I ❤" inside a larger heart and the size of it says a lot. I think we sll see that though Beyond that I wouldn't elaborate as I'd just be guessing I'm afraid.

Also in every pic I've seen of Allison she looks a redhead or strawberry blonde. Her coloring seems fair also.

 

[pulpfiction]

Bed time

 

[Makara]

Thanks MarlyWings

Whilst I could speculate on the drawings it wouldn't be worth much and i feel it would be professionally inappropriate of me to do so. I say it wouldn't be worth much because in order to attempt to gain an understanding what a child is attempting to express (or might be or could be interpreted as) truly requires much focus on body language, voice intonation, style of play and how the drawings are done or how the play eventuates. Observation is critically important and even then I frequently (with consent) go away and watch the video footage over and over of the play. With drawings its a little different. Often children, who I have built good rapport with, feel a sense of trust after a while and will often ask me can they tell me what they drew but every child is different. It takes a while before I even attempt it as a therapy to introduce. But often it creates a division a d that can bring quiet sense of peace for some. Some kids are quite aggressive with play and drawings can be macabre obviously. Some are highly sexualised in the work I do also - sad

What I can say at a glance, and it's just IMO, is that the 1st drawing to me represents how loved Allison was. The "I ❤" inside a larger heart and the size of it says a lot. I think we sll see that though Beyond that I wouldn't elaborate as I'd just be guessing I'm afraid.

Also in every pic I've seen of Allison she looks a redhead or strawberry blonde. Her coloring seems fair also.

Thanks Pulpfiction. I'm interested in two of these drawings where Allison is referred to by name as opposed to Mum or Mummy. Do you have an opinion on why this would be the case? I've never seen this before with kids drawing pictures for a parent or parents where they refer to them by their given name.

 

[Rational]

Thanks Pulpfiction. I'm interested in two of these drawings where Allison is referred to by name as opposed to Mum or Mummy. Do you have an opinion on why this would be the case? I've never seen this before with kids drawing pictures for a parent or parents where they refer to them by their given name.

Makara
I had a look at those drawings again, when Marly reposted, and if you look closely I think that the writing of Allison's name is, I think, done by the same child/person. Also what I missed the first time around was that in the MSM article accompanying the picture if the drawings they are referred to as 'letters to their mother'.

My daughter called me mum and her father by his first name after she tried it on as a bit of a cheeky joke when she was around 5 or 6, got away with it and it become a joke between them. When I asked years later why, she said just that and that after awhile it seemed unnatural to her to call him anything else.

 

[minni]

Allioop is the one to assist me here. I must be dreadfully behind. GBC ppssibly released? When? Has something new transpired? My understanding is that he is in for a while until if/when the decision is made to proceed to trial I thought. Am I wrong?

Custody and/or guardianship would be temporary. No one would change things at present is my opinion. And not anytime soon. Stability is absolutely crucial for their fragile mental health. Hence the move back to Brookfield & familiar pursuits. The BCs a doubtful option however they have rights as grandparents also. Psychs are often consulted in these children's matterS for an independent perspective. I've done many over the past 25 years. There is no way I'd be rushing anything even if he's innocent. Over time their trust in him will potentially erode - depending on their understanding of course. Would be hard to feel safe for most kids.

IF he is eventually found not guilty well that is difficult. Some men in those circumstances leave the children where they've been and have visits. On a short or long term basis. They don't want kids upset either.

Actually best not to comment more on the children IMO

No, I haven't heard that he will possibly be released. But it must be a huge concern, worrying that it might happen, that they might not have enough evidence. If that were to happen, wouldnt he be given back custody? I doubt there is any concern that the seniors would be granted custody.


So until they know whether he will go to trial, everything is up in the air for them, isnt it? I don't even have a word for how they would feel if they have to give them back after all they have been through. I just don't.

 

[Maigret]

No, I haven't heard that he will possibly be released. But it must be a huge concern, worrying that it might happen, that they might not have enough evidence. If that were to happen, wouldnt he be given back custody? I doubt there is any concern that the seniors would be granted custody.


So until they know whether he will go to trial, everything is up in the air for them, isnt it? I don't even have a word for how they would feel if they have to give them back after all they have been through. I just don't.

I think that if there was any doubt whether there was enough evidence he would be out on bail - he will go to trial - he will stay on remand for a long time and then spend the next 10 years after that at least in prison JMO of course