Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #39

[The Observer]

Hmmmm, I was chatting to a member of my family in Brisbane about the Jill Meagher case here in Melbourne. This person worked very briefly in the search for Allison during the initial search... This person dropped a bombshell (somewhat accidentally) about damage to Allison's body once they found her. Am I allowed to post these comments? Clearly I can't link anything...I very strongly believe this information.

No we'd not allow it Sleuthilicious as it would be classed as rumour.

Bugger! Are we allowed to ask whether they meant she was 'damaged during the find' or she was like that when they found her? Just to clarify? If not I'll happily delete, Marlywings.

 

[The Observer]

The police knew Allison was murdered as soon as her body was found.

Exactly, which I think is why we were even more perplexed as to the 'no visable signs' on the body. Even when some info was divulged all we heard about was a chipped tooth.

 

[alioop]

SAME, SAME BUT DIFFERENT

We stand together here for justice & I'm sure Allison greeted Jill in heaven.

OMG I'm tearing up!

I wish i did believe there was a heaven.

 

[Katie1Eighty]

Because some men, if not most are healthy minded, others are very sick individuals

 

[Katie1Eighty]

Researchers in Australia tested a theory that psychopathy -- a severe personality disorder characterised by lack of empathy, antisocial behaviour and callousness -- may be linked to impaired smell ability.

Thanks! That would explain why my ex would only shower once a week despite working as a tradie!

 

[Mani]

Doc Watson, after you have looked at the photos, I will be interested in what you think with regards to the bank, dense undergrowth etc - the grass and weeds would have been a lot higher before being cleared. There are quite a few saplings/trees down the bank, so in my opinion, I don't think Allison was put over the fence from the carpark. MOO

There are too many things for her to get snagged on. MOO

 

[alioop]

Thanks Mani for your efforts with the photos posted today.

 

[Maigret]

Is anyone else having trouble accessing the Jill Meagher discussion ?
It's all good now

 

[DrWatson]

Doc Watson, after you have looked at the photos, I will be interested in what you think with regards to the bank, dense undergrowth etc - the grass and weeds would have been a lot higher before being cleared. There are quite a few saplings/trees down the bank, so in my opinion, I don't think Allison was put over the fence from the carpark. MOO

There are too many things for her to get snagged on. MOO

Morning Mani

Thanks again for going out there to do this.

Does anyone have a direct link to where the photos are? I've just looked through those header posts at the top of the thread but can't find it, so I haven't yet seen the pics.... Yeah, yeah, I know, I probably just had a "boy look" same as looking for the butter in the fridge when it's front and centre top shelf...! :blushing:

 

[Mani]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178134"]PICTURES from our locals *NO DISCUSSION* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

This is the photo thread - photos by locals

The flowers are a welcome sight as you approach the bridge IMO. A big shout out to Indromum for regularly going out there and keeping the flowers tidy and for adding more flowers over the weeks. You have done a great job on both sides of the road and they look lovely.
Keentoknow's cross is still a big yellow beacon as you approach the bridge, you can't miss it and Bellgirl's sunflowers on the cross are still looking mighty fine and the elements have not faded them.

I am reminded of the last stanza from Binyon's WW1 poem that we use on Anzac Day and I feel very sad for what happened to Allison -

"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them".

 

[Mani]

Morning Doc Watson -

You are all welcome. I wish I could have taken photos of the bank with more definition but the undergrowth was so thick that I couldn't stand back to give it the perspective it deserves.

I tried to capture the LUC down in the distance at the bottom of the bank but even that didn't come out adequately in the photos. I can determine it when I look at it but I don't know whether anyone else will be able to see it.

There appears to be a ledge (shelf) behind the fence, prior to the drop-off down to the slope and creek. The bank is well populated by both young and mature trees that would make it difficult for any large object (such as a body) to roll down the slope. IMO

However, I think your original suggestion was a good one; I just can't see how it would have been feasible given the density of the foliage. MOO

Your suggestion about the slope at the end of the fence, nearer to the Kholo Creek has one weakness and I saw it yesterday - the tide was up and the LUC backfills in the first 50 metres or so (that is an estimate), which would mean that if Allison was placed down at the mouth of the LUC, any high tide would have presumably floated her away. Does this make sense to you?

Yesterday, I didn't know if the water in the LUC that I saw from the fence was the tide via the Kholo or water from upstream, as I don't know how far up the LUC the water had settled. However, in hindsight, I think what I observed was the tidal influence.

It has taken me back to questioning whether the bridge was used again in the dead of night and whether the ultimate aim was to have Allison found in the Brisbane River, leaving it open for the authorities to determine where she first entered the river. IMO

After my trips to the bridge, I have debated the bridge theory extensively with both Firesnake and Minni over the past months. Minni in particular put a lot of effort into looking at all aspects of this bridge issue.

I have exhausted all of my theories and I will wait for the outcome from the trial regarding where Allison was placed. I am none the wiser. MOO

 

[DrWatson]

Thanks again Mani - all very good points.

I think the water backs up into LUC on the high tide, rather than flowing down the creek regularly. Perhaps Wakeskate, when he gets back from overseas, can confirm this as he is out that way?

But that wouldn't preclude a body getting part way down the bank, laying there for several days (maybe even dragged further down by animals) and then on that flood surge which DID come down LUC get washed down into the water.

Unfortunately, we don't know the results of the autopsy, so we don't know if she was in the water for a long time (eg 11 days) or just a short time (eg washed down and in, then around the corner in the preceding couple of days). But hopefully the autopsy could have helped in that regard.

Just going to check out your photos now

EDIT: Wow - great set of pics - thanks Mani! I still think in photos 12 and 17 you could feasibly see how a body could fall or roll down there, even if it got caught part way down. But yes, your points are taken, and we unfortunately won't know just WHERE Allison was put until the trial stages, sometime next year - maybe...

Thanks again Mani - great work!

 

[Mani]

Doc, yes the body might get part way down the bank before being stopped by a tree but weren't we told by QPS/MSM there were no visible signs on the body, which negates the possibility of animal disturbance? IMO.

Yes, I will be interested to hear Wakeskate's opinion, and any other locals who know that area - all MOO.

If there was sufficient flood flow down the LUC, the Kholo would have been running also in flood mode, therefore if Allison's body had made it's way down the LUC (from wherever it entered the LUC), the force of the water would have pushed the body out into the flow of the Kholo, which would have quickly taken it down into the mouth of the Kholo and out into the Brisbane River. IMO

Other than being put there or falling there, I don't understand how Allison came to be where she was found under the bridge. MOO

 

[they'll get you]

Researchers in Australia tested a theory that psychopathy -- a severe personality disorder characterised by lack of empathy, antisocial behaviour and callousness -- may be linked to impaired smell ability.

Thanks! That would explain why my ex would only shower once a week despite working as a tradie!

We need smellovision or a bloody good imagination :rocker:

 

[Mani]

We need smellovision or a bloody good imagination :rocker:

:lol::lol:

 

[bellgirl]

PICTURES from our locals *NO DISCUSSION* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

This is the photo thread - photos by locals

The flowers are a welcome sight as you approach the bridge IMO. A big shout out to Indromum for regularly going out there and keeping the flowers tidy and for adding more flowers over the weeks. You have done a great job on both sides of the road and they look lovely.
Keentoknow's cross is still a big yellow beacon as you approach the bridge, you can't miss it and Bellgirl's sunflowers on the cross are still looking mighty fine and the elements have not faded them.

I am reminded of the last stanza from Binyon's WW1 poem that we use on Anzac Day and I feel very sad for what happened to Allison -

"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them".

Thanks for the great photos Mani! The foliage has really grown around that area and is more indicative of how overgrown it would have been when GBC callously disposed of Allison's body.

I acknowledge that photos 17 and 19 show a very steep incline to LUC, but I agree that there's an awful lot of tangled growth and obstacles that a body could easily have been snagged on. I also doubt that GBC would have been able to access such a successful position to throw/roll her body in the middle of the night, with little/no light. IMO he'd end up rolling down the hill with her.

I'm at a loss and starting to think more seriously about Allison being placed at the Crossing now too. So confusing!

I'm happy that the sunflowers have lasted. I saw KTK's cross and the sunflowers pictured on an old MSN report lately - brought tears to my eyes. Big thanks to Indromum for her continual care and up keep! You are very special!

 

[Maigret]

Looking at those pics of Kholo the people in those houses would be able to see any unusual activity in that car park if they were looking out ( I often do when I wake in the early hours)

 

[Champagne4lulu]

Hi Champagne, I am not a criminal lawyer so I am not personally familiar with any of the lawyers for the prosecution or defence. I am sure they are all good lawyers is all I can really say.

I understand though that most people charged with murder do get committed to stand trial. The standard that the magistrate must decide on is if there is sufficient evidence to proceed to trial. So it is a much lower standard than the prosecution having to prove the accused's guilt beyond reasonable doubt at a trial. The police appear to have done a thorough and careful investigation and I think it will be enough to commit GBC for trial in my opinion.
As for the degree of confidence, there will be plenty of that. I personally like quiet confidence in a lawyer. If I have the facts on my side, there is no need for puffery and the like. Juries like that too in my opinion.

Thank you!

 

[Mani]

Looking at those pics of Kholo the people in those houses would be able to see any unusual activity in that car park if they were looking out ( I often do when I wake in the early hours)

Maigret, there are no houses on the Mt Crosby side overlooking the Kholo Bridge - there is nothing. The only houses that are in view are the ones that are on the other side of the Brisbane River. MOO

If you have a look on google maps and get down to the road level and go up and down the road, looking in all directions, you will see how secluded this part of Anstead is.

Cheers

 

[Maigret]

Maigret, there are no houses on the Mt Crosby side overlooking the Kholo Bridge - there is nothing. The only houses that are in view are the ones that are on the other side of the Brisbane River. MOO

If you have a look on google maps and get down to the road level and go up and down the road, looking in all directions, you will see how secluded this part of Anstead is.

Cheers

Oh fair enough - so even though you can see the houses no one in them would notice unusual activity in the middle of the night