Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #42

[Obsessor]

Have a look at the fourth photo at the link below. Notice the concrete base once again. Allsion was found just below that concrete base. Also notice how the bank just drops off. Allison was placed there on 19-20 April. She was found on 30 April and there had been significant flooding about that time. It's possible that the flooding continued to damage the creek bank where she was found for some time after, hence the erosion of the creek bank that we see in Mani's photos.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - PICTURES from our locals *NO DISCUSSION*

The first picture, showing how dense the undergrowth is on the southern side, makes me think he is unlikely to have made his way through that in the dark of night, and then down a bank towards water as well, especially with a heavy awkward body to carry, pull, drag etc.

 

[CaseClosed]

I believe the simplest answers tend to be the ones that are correct. I don't think he chose the spot beforehand, I don't think the body was floated along the creek and then lifted up to where she was found, but I think he definitely wanted her found (otherwise he would have buried her) to collect on insurance policies. In the dead of night (no moon light), our eyes adjust to the darkness after a few minutes and you can see quite a bit. Using a torch would have involved more thinking before moving the body and I believe he does not THINK! In my view, he dragged her out of the back of the car, dragged here to a point out of sight from the road and then rolled the body parallel to the creek, ending where she was found (or he actually dragged her to that final resting place). I believe he acted alone, although he may have asked for help from family, who refused to get involved. He is not an intelligent man! He is a user and abuser. He disposed of her and only THEN came up with whatever stories he has now told the authorities. My opinion only.

 

[DrWatson]

Thanks for the pics Makara. That lady in the black outfit standing next to the pylon seems to have gotten down ok and her nice outfit intact. Of course that is day time but she presumably walked down and no vegetation would have been cleared at that stage.

I think that may be a police diver with his wetsuit top down, making it look like a tailed coat (or a dress). They would have searched in the water for sure - weapon, evidence, .... phone....

I doubt it was a lady who walked down - they lowered the police down by rope from the Fire and Rescue Service guys - the same ones who winched the stretcher up. Although I agree that it sure does look like a female in black.

And in that photo, they appear to be measuring distances, with the lower policeman in the blue forensic suit being where Allison was found, or standing beside her, and running the tape to the guys at each pillar. Like they do with a traffic accident, so they can record the precise position where she was found, triangulated off the two pylons.

 

[Makara]

Thanks for the pics Makara. That lady in the black outfit standing next to the pylon seems to have gotten down ok and her nice outfit intact. Of course that is day time but she presumably walked down and no vegetation would have been cleared at that stage.

Exactly!

 

[Obsessor]

I believe the simplest answers tend to be the ones that are correct. I don't think he chose the spot beforehand, I don't think the body was floated along the creek and then lifted up to where she was found, but I think he definitely wanted her found (otherwise he would have buried her) to collect on insurance policies. In the dead of night (no moon light), our eyes adjust to the darkness after a few minutes and you can see quite a bit. Using a torch would have involved more thinking before moving the body and I believe he does not THINK! In my view, he dragged her out of the back of the car, dragged here to a point out of sight from the road and then rolled the body parallel to the creek, ending where she was found (or he actually dragged her to that final resting place). I believe he acted alone, although he may have asked for help from family, who refused to get involved. He is not an intelligent man! He is a user and abuser. He disposed of her and only THEN came up with whatever stories he has now told the authorities. My opinion only.

But because the vegetation is so dense, I dont think she'd have rolled far at all.

Plus, she landed at the edge of the bridge, which would be a major fluke if she purely rolled to that spot, plus there was no evidence on him or the car that they had been to Kholo, so it would be unlikely that he had pulled off the bitumen.
Such a puzzle.
It appears to me that she was dropped from the bridge, but even that is really strange considering what other options he had available.

How do you think he expected the body to be found CC?

 

[CaseClosed]

Thanks for this response Doc.
You are completely correct in saying that the site may have to do with the body needing to be found.
It got me thinking today. There has to be a reason he chose this spot, as he drove a fair way from home to get there, and then stopped on a bridge where there was a risk of being seen. Any risk is too great when you're dumping the wife you have just killed.

As far as a good spot to stop and dump a corpse, it is hard to make sense of this spot.

He is familiar with that area and probably knows that there are regular canoeist that use the creek. The body was visible from the water and he expected her to be found by some people either going fishing or canoeists. That's how I see it.

 

[CaseClosed]

But because the vegetation is so dense, I dont think she'd have rolled far at all.

Plus, she landed at the edge of the bridge, which would be a major fluke if she purely rolled to that spot, plus there was no evidence on him or the car that they had been to Kholo, so it would be unlikely that he had pulled off the bitumen.
Such a puzzle.
It appears to me that she was dropped from the bridge, but even that is really strange considering what other options he had available.

How do you think he expected the body to be found CC?

I think if she was dropped over the railings, or rolled under the railings of the bridge, she would have not been "under" the bridge and she would have had some broken bones. The creek is well known as a recreational canooing area and him being a scout, he probably knew that. It is also used by some people for recreational fishing.

 

[Obsessor]

Thinking about my theory, above (of him choosing to drop her off the bridge, in order to dump her into water), we can apply that without the suicide theory and without the involvement of Nige (although if 2 cars were definitely witnessed, this could explain that).

He may have simply thought that the best way to get rid of a dead body is to dump it into the sea, and in Brisbane, the closest thing to that is the main Brisbane river.

I have heard this before.

Usually something turns up, but not for a few days, thereby getting rid of some of the evidence of murder.

Perhaps he did just act alone and choose this site for that reason.??

???

 

[Obsessor]

I think if she was dropped over the railings, or rolled under the railings of the bridge, she would have not been "under" the bridge and she would have had some broken bones. The creek is well known as a recreational canooing area and him being a scout, he probably knew that. It is also used by some people for recreational fishing.

Yep, fair enough. Could be right.

What about all the dense vegetation???

 

[alioop]

I think that may be a police diver with his wetsuit top down, making it look like a tailed coat (or a dress). They would have searched in the water for sure - weapon, evidence, .... phone....

I doubt it was a lady who walked down - they lowered the police down by rope from the Fire and Rescue Service guys - the same ones who winched the stretcher up. Although I agree that it sure does look like a female in black.

And in that photo, they appear to be measuring distances, with the lower policeman in the blue forensic suit being where Allison was found, or standing beside her, and running the tape to the guys at each pillar. Like they do with a traffic accident, so they can record the precise position where she was found, triangulated off the two pylons.

Doc, we may both be correct if it is a female police diver in a wetsuit with the top section folded down. There seems to be plenty of people down there. People in blue overalls and at least one person in yellow and the person in black and then the fire and rescue people helping to bring Allison up.

 

[Obsessor]

He is familiar with that area and probably knows that there are regular canoeist that use the creek. The body was visible from the water and he expected her to be found by some people either going fishing or canoeists. That's how I see it.

The other question I have is, if he didn't mind if the body was found the next day or very soon after, then why go out to Kholo Creek anyhow? She could have just been dumped on the side of the road somewhere?

 

[alioop]

He is familiar with that area and probably knows that there are regular canoeist that use the creek. The body was visible from the water and he expected her to be found by some people either going fishing or canoeists. That's how I see it.

Agreed CC and also the geocache there as well. The body was right on the waters edge, had she been in the vegetation up further she would likely not have been visible by the canoeist.

 

[alioop]

The other question I have is, if he didn't mind if the body was found the next day or very soon after, then why go out to Kholo Creek anyhow? She could have just been dumped on the side of the road somewhere?

Maybe he wanted her found but not too soon so as to destroy any evidence of murder. As the cause of death is undetermined, if that was his plan, it has worked.

 

[Obsessor]

Maybe he wanted her found but not too soon so as to destroy any evidence of murder. As the cause of death is undetermined, if that was his plan, it has worked.

But, if she was placed where canoeists would frequent, there was a good chance, being a weekend the next day, that she would be found the following day, before the elements had time to do their job??? and without being in water, even more so???

(appreciate the discussion by the way)

 

[Happygolucky]

Here is a link to the online Supreme Court file for the second bail application which lists the documents filed

http://apps.courts.qld.gov.au/esear...ocation=BRISB&Court=SUPRE&Filenumber=11307/12

Doc 17 on that list filed by the police would be one to order as it will have most of the prosecution's evidence on which they seek to oppose bail. All these docs are publicly available and can be ordered by emailing the below search counter. You need to state the matter number, Baden-Clay and the date of the hearing before Judge Applegarth and ask for a price for the docs you wish to obtain. They will email you back and you can then call and pay over the phone with a credit card and they will post them out to you.

SDC.SearchandCopyCounter@justice.qld.gov.au

Which ones did you purchase Alioop? Do you recommend any other than Doc 17?

 

[alioop]

But, if she was placed where canoeists would frequent, there was a good chance, being a weekend the next day, that she would be found the following day, before the elements had time to do their job??? and without being in water, even more so???

(appreciate the discussion by the way)

Good point Obby, I don't know if it is usual for canoeists to be there every weekend. Maybe it is only occasionally so he took the chance that it may be at least a few days before she would be found by one. Or maybe just by putting her in water even for a short period of a couple of days may have been enough to wash away evidence. Maybe it was about putting her in water to destroy evidence.

 

[alioop]

Which ones did you purchase Alioop? Do you recommend any other than Doc 17?

I haven't purchased any of the documents. But no 17 would be the first one I would purchase if I was going to and no 20 would be the second one I would get. This is because they are both the prosecutions documents, I wouldn't bother paying for the defence's documents.

 

[LadyBird1]

Maybe he wanted her found but not too soon so as to destroy any evidence of murder. As the cause of death is undetermined, if that was his plan, it has worked.

I couldn't agree with you more, Alioop!
He wanted her found. (Insurance money)
But not too soon. (Evidences destroyed)
And this is the most significant element in the whole equation.
Has he covered everything? Whew! Is there anything more? Oh, just the media. Nothing serious like, just the expected aftermath. The rest, the details, will pale into insignificance and become blurred over time.

 

[CaseClosed]

But, if she was placed where canoeists would frequent, there was a good chance, being a weekend the next day, that she would be found the following day, before the elements had time to do their job??? and without being in water, even more so???

(appreciate the discussion by the way)

He may have decided to take his chances. Or he may have initially thought that the story was going to be that she was abducted and dumped by her abductor (far away from home!). Or he just didn't think further than "I want the body found .... $$$$". I guess, unless he gives a detailed confession, we will never really know the whole truth.

Re the dense vegetation. He is a scout, he is probably used to walking through bushes and in the state of mind that he must have been then, he probably didn't care about a few scratches? It is all very intriguing and I hope the committal gives us more clues.

 

[Obsessor]

Good point Obby, I don't know if it is usual for canoeists to be there every weekend. Maybe it is only occasionally so he took the chance that it may be at least a few days before she would be found by one. Or maybe just by putting her in water even for a short period of a couple of days may have been enough to wash away evidence. Maybe it was about putting her in water to destroy evidence.

I've been so puzzled by this choice of dumping site.
Nothing seemed to add up, but when I looked at the photo reposted by Makara of the police photographer, it seemed to me that it was obvious why she was dropped there. Lots of other things seemed to make sense then- not that I'm saying this is right- only another theory- but enjoying trying to make it fit all the same.