Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #42

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In the picture you posted, Obby, I can see a small, dark scratch closer to GBC's mouth. In my opinion, that's where Allison's thumbnail gripped onto his face, while the other fingernails created the longer, larger scratches.

Has it been confirmed if Allison was left or right handed? The scratches on GBC's face were on his right cheek, weren't they? If so, it would have been Allison's left hand that inflicted that scratches. I'm thinking that this would have been likely, if Allison was right handed, because GBC would have possibly used his weight to restrain her dominant right hand.

MOO.

I dont think we can conclude that it was her left hand unless we know the position she was struggling from.
If she had her back to his front and he was suffocating/strangling her from behind, it would be her right hand that tore his face.
(unless that little mark near his mouth is from the thumb. I'm not feeling confident with that. That could?? be one of the other scratches that were typical of shaving type scratches, but then again, you could be right.) MOO
 
Know nothing about the visitors but the girls are still at they old school so my granddaughter told me recently

Thanks Squizzey!! I had heard/read somewhere, that the Dickies relocated to facilitate the girls staying at the same school they were, which you have now also confirmed. Poor little darlings!
 
Wow, so many different things being discussed in the last 24 hours!

I agree with the fact that police can get things wrong, very wrong sometimes, and that's why innocent people are in jail and some are now being released with advances in DNA technology, etc. But, the majority of police officers are dedicated people, who have the interest of justice as their purpose in a case like this.

Scratches ... it is obvious that he grew the beard and had his mobile phone constantly to his right cheek in the early days because he was hiding these from the public/media. I believe Allison inflicted those scratches, but it doesn't really matter to me how she did it. She could have been held from behind, in a choke hold, she could have twisted and turned to try and release it, she could have been on her back, etc. I believe he strangled her in a fit of rage, and I don't believe he had planned on doing it.

Contrary to my early scenario, I also now believe he rolled her off the edge of the bridge and did not carry/drag her to where she was found.

This is a difficult case. It has many unanswered questions (at least for the public at this stage), but I subscribe to the KISS principle. They argued, fought, he lost it, killed her and dumped her ... and then had to make up something to explain away all the little clues that were left behind. He also then saw in his own twisted, selfish, self-centred mind, the bonus of collecting on her insurance policies to solve all his other problems. Whether he intended on killing her or not, the least he deserves is jail time for manslaughter. Yes, I know there is the presumption of innocence, but for me, he is not innocent. All my opinion only.
 
From Constable Ash...

December 15, 2012

"I then asked Gerard if everything was OK between him and Allison? Gerard then said 'Look there is something I should tell you'. He then explained . . . he had recently admitted to having an affair with another female. Gerard said 'because I have had an affair things aren't great between Allison and I . . . she no longer trusts me'."

Baden-Clay asked for the information to be kept confidential "stating that his father and sister did not know" about the affair.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...baden-clays-face/story-e6freoof-1226537344568

Think I mentioned earlier, that someone is an accomplished Liar.
Stated that "his father and sister did not know."
Hmph! The affair was not hidden at all. All C21 were privy to same. Appears to have been a given. C21 blurb appears to have stressed the wonders of two fantastic agents. Oh and way down at the bottom, was the problem. Someone unimportant. With as little as possible positive blurb.
The "affair" shared the family holiday.
The "affair" appeared part of the BC family.
The "affair" was advised to lay low for a while. Did that mean until the heat had blown over.
The "Look there is something I should tell you" slyly spoken, was nothing but a semi satisfactory reason why his wife, might have had reason to suicide, or storm off in a huff, and maybe get abducted.
Agree with all praise to Constable Ash. Also to Ainsworth who has behaved with utmost care, consideration and professionalism.
In fact, I felt that QPS were looking for a possible murder victim from the beginning. And they knew also at least a small part of what they were dealing with. Cunning and supposedly clever. And above the law. Or so they thought.
 
Thanks for asking marlywings! Only that some times on this site and others like it there seems to be a lot of naive faith in the police that IMO is sometimes misplaced. E.g. the police seemed to get the alleged Facetime call spectacularly wrong (it seemed to disappear in the second bail hearing) and it seems very convenient that they "found it" just before the first bail hearing. I'm a bit of a nitpicker and a contrarian and that just got me thinking...that's all. I wonder if there are any other "mistakes"?

If there have been any mistakes/wrong interpretations/omissions etc made by the police or any of their witnesses which of course is possible, I believe the defence will be raising those in their cross examination at the committal. So we will find out soon enough. It is a good point you raise about this possibility and maybe the FaceTime call falls in this category.
 
In my mind, I have Allison lying on her back, on the floor (or a couch, or a bed). GBC has her pinned down, with his legs bent under him and his knees positioned around her chest area. He is much bigger than Allison, so his weight alone would have been enough to restrain her.

While GBC is holding Allison around the neck, she reaches up and, in self-defence, digs into his face with her nails. In an attempt to avoid being scratched, GBC arches his neck and bends his head backwards. However, Allison still manages to reach his face and the resultant scratches are almost vertical.

In the picture you posted, Obby, I can see a small, dark scratch closer to GBC's mouth. In my opinion, that's where Allison's thumbnail gripped onto his face, while the other fingernails created the longer, larger scratches.

Has it been confirmed if Allison was left or right handed? The scratches on GBC's face were on his right cheek, weren't they? If so, it would have been Allison's left hand that inflicted that scratches. I'm thinking that this would have been likely, if Allison was right handed, because GBC would have possibly used his weight to restrain her dominant right hand.

MOO.

GBC also had scratches on the left side of his neck that were captured in a photo, posted below. It is one that has appeared previously on this forum, but I don't know who to credit for it. Possibly Makara?
 

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GBC also had scratches on the left side of his neck that were captured in a photo, posted below. It is one that has appeared previously on this forum, but I don't know who to credit for it. Possibly Makara?

Hi KG1 :) With due respect, as always, I don't really buy that mark as a scratch. I remember it being discussed at length. But to me, if it is anything at all, and especially since it is almost exactly parallel to his shirt collar, it looks more like a bit of a chafe mark only. I've had them similar to that in the past, especially with a thick-ish shirt collar material such as the one he is wearing in that pic.

I'm totally convinced by the scratches on his right side of face - no question. And there is no way that they were caused by a safety razor. But I don't really see that one on his left neck as a scratch....

Good memory to recall that one though - that was quite some time ago that we discussed that, along with the "spot" on his forehead as I recall.
 
Hi KG1 :) With due respect, as always, I don't really buy that mark as a scratch. I remember it being discussed at length. But to me, if it is anything at all, and especially since it is almost exactly parallel to his shirt collar, it looks more like a bit of a chafe mark only. I've had them similar to that in the past, especially with a thick-ish shirt collar material such as the one he is wearing in that pic.

I'm totally convinced by the scratches on his right side of face - no question. And there is no way that they were caused by a safety razor. But I don't really see that one on his left neck as a scratch....

Good memory to recall that one though - that was quite some time ago that we discussed that, along with the "spot" on his forehead as I recall.

Hi Doc, Yes, I think the 'spot' on his forehead was just that - a spot. However, I still think they are scratches on the left side of his neck, as opposed to your view of chafing. They look fairly fresh too. Sorry to disagree on this one. MOO
 
Hi KG1 :) With due respect, as always, I don't really buy that mark as a scratch. I remember it being discussed at length. But to me, if it is anything at all, and especially since it is almost exactly parallel to his shirt collar, it looks more like a bit of a chafe mark only. I've had them similar to that in the past, especially with a thick-ish shirt collar material such as the one he is wearing in that pic.

I'm totally convinced by the scratches on his right side of face - no question. And there is no way that they were caused by a safety razor. But I don't really see that one on his left neck as a scratch....

Good memory to recall that one though - that was quite some time ago that we discussed that, along with the "spot" on his forehead as I recall.

Yes, Doc, I agree. It looks more like a rash than scratches.
 
Hi Doc, Yes, I think the 'spot' on his forehead was just that - a spot. However, I still think they are scratches on the left side of his neck, as opposed to your view of chafing. They look fairly fresh too. Sorry to disagree on this one. MOO

Heheh - it's good to be able to disagree :great:

I suspect, though, that it would have been mentioned int he police reports etc if it had indeed been a scratch. But all may become clear in just under two weeks... yeay :)

Maybe THAT was the caterpillar rash???
 
Seat belt graze ? This video was after the 'accident'. Imo

You could well be right Chief of Funtime - perhaps from the minor car crash into the pillar. I will keep an open mind, till we know, if we get to know.
 
GBC also had scratches on the left side of his neck that were captured in a photo, posted below. It is one that has appeared previously on this forum, but I don't know who to credit for it. Possibly Makara?

Thanks for reposting that one KG...interesting revisiting all the old pics! I'm not sure whether it's actual scratch marks or as Doc has mentioned, chafing..although I don't really agree with that either. The polo shirt of that type is usually made of polyester & cotton, softer type fabric, not really harsh at all. Also, the pic is from the video taken on the day he arrived home from his recuperating stay in hospital following the "accident"....I've no idea what he wore in hospital but I don't imagine it would have been itchy scratchy shirts...lol.

Then again, maybe they are scratch marks & he wore the collared type shirts in an attempt to cover them. I don't recall seeing any photos of him in a shirt without a collar.

On revisiting the old pics I came across the pie face photo....if you zoom in close enough, just above the top button where the shirt opens, there looks to be a bruise & some sort of, almost circular type, marks of dry skin.

092634-gerard-baden-clay.jpg
 
Here is a link to the online Supreme Court file for the second bail application which lists the documents filed

http://apps.courts.qld.gov.au/esear...ocation=BRISB&Court=SUPRE&Filenumber=11307/12

Doc 17 on that list filed by the police would be one to order as it will have most of the prosecution's evidence on which they seek to oppose bail. All these docs are publicly available and can be ordered by emailing the below search counter. You need to state the matter number, Baden-Clay and the date of the hearing before Judge Applegarth and ask for a price for the docs you wish to obtain. They will email you back and you can then call and pay over the phone with a credit card and they will post them out to you.

SDC.SearchandCopyCounter@justice.qld.gov.au

Alioop, appreciate your knowledge on the ins and outs of legal matters - this stuff isn't obvious to anyone without the relevant training - thanks for sharing so generously.
 
There's been much discussion about how Allison's body came to be where it was found under the Kholo Creek Bridge.

Just to clarify a few things relevant to this discussion that came out at the second bail hearing:

* there was no water at the level where she was found - a hydrologist report stated at that time the water level never reached the point at which she was found.
* the placement of her body was NOT consistent with a fall
* there were no fractures
* Allison's body came to be in the position in which it was found (ie. Kholo Creek) a short time after death - so she "may have" died somewhere else and been moved.

So, if the water never reached that level, then she cannot have been in the muddy area we were discussing a day or so ago? Then the body must have been found further up the bank? Now I'm again confused!!! :banghead:
 
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