Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #44

[jamie233]

Am interested in the answer to this question:
Is there one real estate agent in Australia who does home handyman work or cleaning duties? Including changing a light-bulb. On other people's properties. Just One.

I think this has been discussed previously - I have worked in real estate for a number of years and still maintain close friendships with others who still work in and own real estate businesses.

The only time I have ever seen an agent do any work to a property is when they may move items around to take photos, to make the photos look more appealing, less cluttered etc. I actually remember that we didn't even have a vacuum in our office because we had a contractor cleaning the office, and someone dropped something in the foyer and we were scratching our heads looking for something to help us clean up.

 

[Strangeworld]

Thought some might be interested in reading this case from 1999 – Eugene Ricky Pulley has been found guilty and sentenced to life for the murder of his wife, Patty Jo Pulley. I actually found this case when I was researching fingernail scratches, and you’ll see why this case came up!

Here’s a couple of details that might give us hope that a conviction can be obtained when there’s apparently no definitive COD or eyewitnesses, and mostly circumstantial evidence. I know this is in the US, but I had many OMG moments as I was reading.

Pulley case:
• Eugene married to Patty Jo
• He was a pastor, she worked with him in the church
• Patty Jo was reported missing May 1999 and her remains were found Dec 2002 (quite a gap in time from when she disappeared) near a bridge over Hyco Creek
• A truck had been seen near this area the night she disappeared
• Conflicting stories given by Eugene to explain injuries on his body
o Scratches on face – drew suspicion – he gave different causes to different people, including squirrels, briars, ‘tripped and fell’, and a runaway dog!
o Other injuries included arm scratches and bruising
o Eugene got his own expert witnesses to testify that scratches could have been from briars, but in the end, the court seemed satisfied they were from fingernails
• Eugene reported his wife missing
• Eugene appeared distraught, emotional and in shock in the days following his wife’s disappearance
• Eugene did involve himself in the search for his wife
• Member of public apparently saw Eugene on a nearby road late on the night his wife disappeared – when offered assistance he refused help
• Another witness also saw both of Eugene/Patty Jo’s vehicles at their house, but a few minutes later, they were both gone
• The reverend at Eugene’s church approached him about improper use of the church’s credit card, Eugene was asked to reduce workload, ‘burnout’ was observed
• Eugene then disclosed that he was having relationship difficulties
• Eugene also confessed to an extramarital affair and financial difficulties, as well as engaging in phone sex calls
• When Eugene discussed indiscretions with Patty Jo, apparently she forgave him, but there were then issues of trust (also mention of Eugene’s sexual dysfunction)
• The defense claimed insufficient evidence, but he was convicted, and appeals were not successful (from what I could find so far).

The likely death of Patty Jo was asphyxiation, but I can’t find anything suggesting it was confirmed.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/nc-court-of-appeals/1150301.html# appeal summary

http://www.aoc.state.nc.us/www/public/coa/opinions/2006/pdf/050892-1.pdf more details


WOW!!

 

[jamie233]

I know that there has been much discussion this week about TM. I just wanted to make an observation, it has been noted previously by other members that there is a lot that she doesn't recall, in terms of dates, times, details etc.

A woman who has spent the last 5 or more years working in real estate (forgive me for skim reading the start of her statements, I can't recall) - as a Property Manager, she would use a diary constantly, same for when she was working in sales. While some of these events were after she ceased work with Cent21, she was working in other businesses, and again she would have been keeping track of things in her diary. I am sure that she would have easily been able to determine if she spent 2 or 3 nights in Sydney. Why is there so much vagueness in her statements?

 

[Fuskier]

Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Alioop thanks for re-posting the link to the Bail Documents. CCTV as noted in the Hairdresser's statement would provide the investigating Police with info needed regarding what Allison wore on that day. However, there was not a description in the statement of what clothes Allison wore.

 

[marlywings]

Sorry to be a pest, I can't re-find the link to the Statements etc. Could we perhaps have them pinned at the intro of the threads? Please? :seeya:

Bail Hearing Documents link is now included in first post of this thread.


[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202113"]Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


And to make it even easier to access...the above thread is also now a sticky thread located at the top of the Allison Baden-Clay sub-forum which is the following link...

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=494"]Allison Baden-Clay of Australia - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[marlywings]

Thought some might be interested in reading this case from 1999 – Eugene Ricky Pulley has been found guilty and sentenced to life for the murder of his wife, Patty Jo Pulley. I actually found this case when I was researching fingernail scratches, and you’ll see why this case came up!

Here’s a couple of details that might give us hope that a conviction can be obtained when there’s apparently no definitive COD or eyewitnesses, and mostly circumstantial evidence. I know this is in the US, but I had many OMG moments as I was reading.

Pulley case:
• Eugene married to Patty Jo
• He was a pastor, she worked with him in the church
• Patty Jo was reported missing May 1999 and her remains were found Dec 2002 (quite a gap in time from when she disappeared) near a bridge over Hyco Creek
• A truck had been seen near this area the night she disappeared
• Conflicting stories given by Eugene to explain injuries on his body
o Scratches on face – drew suspicion – he gave different causes to different people, including squirrels, briars, ‘tripped and fell’, and a runaway dog!
o Other injuries included arm scratches and bruising
o Eugene got his own expert witnesses to testify that scratches could have been from briars, but in the end, the court seemed satisfied they were from fingernails
• Eugene reported his wife missing
• Eugene appeared distraught, emotional and in shock in the days following his wife’s disappearance
• Eugene did involve himself in the search for his wife
• Member of public apparently saw Eugene on a nearby road late on the night his wife disappeared – when offered assistance he refused help
• Another witness also saw both of Eugene/Patty Jo’s vehicles at their house, but a few minutes later, they were both gone
• The reverend at Eugene’s church approached him about improper use of the church’s credit card, Eugene was asked to reduce workload, ‘burnout’ was observed
• Eugene then disclosed that he was having relationship difficulties
• Eugene also confessed to an extramarital affair and financial difficulties, as well as engaging in phone sex calls
• When Eugene discussed indiscretions with Patty Jo, apparently she forgave him, but there were then issues of trust (also mention of Eugene’s sexual dysfunction)
• The defense claimed insufficient evidence, but he was convicted, and appeals were not successful (from what I could find so far).

The likely death of Patty Jo was asphyxiation, but I can’t find anything suggesting it was confirmed.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/nc-court-of-appeals/1150301.html# appeal summary

http://www.aoc.state.nc.us/www/public/coa/opinions/2006/pdf/050892-1.pdf more details


WOW!!

Thanks for posting this Strangeworld!!...make that a double WOW!!

 

[Trooper]

I know that there has been much discussion this week about TM. I just wanted to make an observation, it has been noted previously by other members that there is a lot that she doesn't recall, in terms of dates, times, details etc.

A woman who has spent the last 5 or more years working in real estate (forgive me for skim reading the start of her statements, I can't recall) - as a Property Manager, she would use a diary constantly, same for when she was working in sales. While some of these events were after she ceased work with Cent21, she was working in other businesses, and again she would have been keeping track of things in her diary. I am sure that she would have easily been able to determine if she spent 2 or 3 nights in Sydney. Why is there so much vagueness in her statements?

\

Since she only had 2 events of 'physical intiimacy' with Gerard this year, she says, surely they would have been entered into her diary in letters of fire??

 

[Strangeworld]

Thought some might be interested in reading this case from 1999 – Eugene Ricky Pulley has been found guilty and sentenced to life for the murder of his wife, Patty Jo Pulley. I actually found this case when I was researching fingernail scratches, and you’ll see why this case came up!

QUOTE]

And here's a summary of Patty Jo - sends chills up my spine:

"Quiet Moments" is the lifelong story of Patty Jo Riddick-Pulley. She was an amazingly talented, loving, and giving person. All who met her soon loved her. With a unique aura of peace and serenity about her, she appropriately spent many years serving the church. Nothing made her happier than honoring God by singing, writing music, and being the best example of a Christian that she could be each day.

Unfortunatley, she was too giving and understanding, too accepting of what she considered to be her destiny. Worst of all, she was fearful of failure, both too proud and ashamed to admit defeat; too hard working and able to cope, and too quiet about her life behind closed doors. All of those qualities combined enabled Patty Jo to be a talented actress who would not let famiily and friends know her true needs.

Patty Jo disappeared and died many years before she should have. Secrets, selfishness, sickness and lies killed her. In a way, it could be said that her entire adult life away from the core of her family was a mystery. Piece by painful piece, that mystery slowly came to light in quiet moments of faith between her disappearance and recovery. Although we eventually acquired many facts about her life, disappearance and death, our hearts will never truly comprehend all that contributed to the painful mystery that changed our lives forever.

http://bookstore.authorhouse.com/Products/SKU-000522880/Quiet-Moments.aspx

 

[Inspector]

Thanks for the latest Ali. Strange. The hairdresser has a remarkable memory.
Allison didn't seem to sound very happy. I wonder if there had been an arguement earlier? Perhaps on the phone?

2 things:

1. I know a salon I will never bother attending!

2. As someone who is coming back for repeated "fix ups" I too may come across as irritated also, especially after being stuck in traffic. I thought early on the hairdresser was quote as saying A was in a good mood and looking forward to the conference the next day?

 

[jamie233]

And while I am at it....

OW: she told the media 'the truth will come out' and 'I believe my brother will be acquitted' - I would really like to know how she thinks these two things will both come true? If she does in fact believe both statements, that points to someone else having killed Allison? If the truth is to come out, as she do adamantly declares, then she must believe that there is some way the defense can prove how Allison died, that was not a result of her brother's actions.

I don't know if she really does believe either of those things but she is certainly very strange. That's about all I can say about her that doesn't begin and end with <modsnip>!!!

 

[jamie233]

\

Since she only had 2 events of 'physical intiimacy' with Gerard this year, she says, surely they would have been entered into her diary in letters of fire??

I know myself and other female friends do sometimes keep track of those things, I guess she might not from a potential pregnancy point of view (!!) but even without a big red love heart in her diary, there are so many other ways to determine dates. Something as simple as 'oh I had my car in for a service the day after' or 'the boys were picked up by their dad earlier that day' or 'I attended the salon ' anyway, it is not hard to work out a general idea of dates, even if you are not someone who records everything.

 

[marlywings]

And while I am at it....

OW: she told the media 'the truth will come out' and 'I believe my brother will be acquitted' - I would really like to know how she thinks these two things will both come true? If she does in fact believe both statements, that points to someone else having killed Allison? If the truth is to come out, as she do adamantly declares, then she must believe that there is some way the defense can prove how Allison died, that was not a result of her brother's actions.

I don't know if she really does believe either of those things but she is certainly very strange. That's about all I can say about her that doesn't begin and end with <modsnip>!!!

Well..this is just my opinion on that whole thing with OW.

I think she's doing her lttle bit on the side, while she had full on media attention, purely & simply to try & create doubt.... just like defence lawyers try to do.

 

[SandyGG]

I have just watched the interview with OW outside the Kenmore house yesterday and it is an edited version. However the commentator says that OW claims the prosecution was selective in the evidence they presented, I presume she means at the committal. We don't hear her say this but if she did in the full version, then that to me indicates she has no understanding of the process at the committal.

I picked up on that as well and initially thought she obviously doesn't understand the process but then it occurred to me that she may well be talking about evidence or arguments that she believes that they have presented that she feels the police and/or Prosecution have not considered properly. This may not have been in court. This would correlate with other comments that she has made suggesting that the police have not explored all avenues etc.

So I made a comment yesterday that I hope this will not involve some further suicide argument or other character assasination of Allison.

 

[Total]

so while Olivia is telling us Allison had depression of such depth she probably left her kids and went for a long wallk, Gerard and Toni are discussing Killer, or Killers. Toni is discussing with her exhusband what route this killler, or killers most likely took.

* raised eyebrow*

At the same time as he is instructing his legal team to go for the suicide theory, or maybe even try and point the finger at tm.

 

[CaseClosed]

so while Olivia is telling us Allison had depression of such depth she probably left her kids and went for a long wallk, Gerard and Toni are discussing Killer, or Killers. Toni is discussing with her exhusband what route this killler, or killers most likely took.

* raised eyebrow*

But these are two different points in time: OW speaking of depression was early on during the search, whilst TM's statement about a killer is after the body was found.

 

[Onlyone]

I stopped at Kholo bridge to move the sunflower cross up the post as it's almost hidden in the regrown undergrowth but failed completely. I had to settle for trampling down the undergrowth to make it more visible. Any thoughts on what we could do?

 

[CaseClosed]

At the same time as he is instructing his legal team to go for the suicide theory, or maybe even try and point the finger at tm.

Maybe Alioop can shed some light here, but I don't think GBC "instructed" them to go for the suicide theory or any theory. I would imagine that the Defence pick what they think would have a better chance of getting him bail, considering whatever evidence they had at that point in time, and go with that. I would be more inclined to believe that the Defence suggested to GBC to go with the suicide theory, not the other way around.

 

[Liadan]

2 things:

1. I know a salon I will never bother attending!

2. As someone who is coming back for repeated "fix ups" I too may come across as irritated also, especially after being stuck in traffic. I thought early on the hairdresser was quote as saying A was in a good mood and looking forward to the conference the next day?

You know inspector - its actually a great little salon and they do a great job! Experienced hairdressers who listen in a pleasant salon - and its convenient.

This family were barely able to make ends meet so a hair appt seems like a huge luxury in those conditions. Perish the thought and this is not meant to cast aspersions on Allison but maybe she took an opportunity to get a bit of a revamp for her conference with no extra charge. I think if you have experienced budget cuts for a while you do get creative in getting things done. Its not meant to sound horrible that she did this just a practical consideration in her daily life.Not happy with my colour can we just adjust - which was done to coincide with the conference.

 

[BJsleuth]

One day the truth will come out... and then a false imprisonment suit?

 

[KG1]

From Toni's statement, number 4.

Sunday, April 27th. Gerard rings Toni..

in the conversation,

'Gerard then told me he loved me. He said, he didnt know what went wrong there, but he believed the police would find the killer and bring them to justice..
further down that statement, number 4....

'I have been asked about a comment I made to Robert MacKay Woods about whoever did kill Allison ,I did make a comment along those lines because it appeared common sense that whoever did this to Allison would have gone thru Rafting Ground road to get to Anstead. .I just think that anyone who did not want to be seen would have gone the back way, because there would have been less likelihood they would have been seen..

So both Gerard and Toni agree there is a killer, or killers, they, or it, will be bought to justice, and they most likely took the Rafting Ground Road to get to Anstead..

Trooper, that date should read Sunday 27 May, 2012 - Gerard's last phone call to Toni. He didn't call her on 28 May as he said he would.