Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #45

[Phantom's Diana]

I agree PD -- But I didn't realise he had said in his home. So with you having pointed that out I just had a look at Nigelaine Internet Account and they show someone connected on Wed 18th at 10.39 pm from Kenmore for 42.04minutes. There could have been a visitor in the house but IMO it would be unusual to leave your visitor to pop over and watch the good wife.
Assuming that it was not a visitor - than they got home and connect very quickly.

Could it have been that they left OW at home with her children - cannot recall what day she arrived down from Townsville ? But as you say no sooner home than straight on the Internet ? Interesting .

 

[linette]

Could it have been that they left OW at home with her children - cannot recall what day she arrived down from Townsville ? But as you say no sooner home than straight on the Internet ? Interesting .

I think a few of the others discussed it during the hearing... and decided it was probably OW, she was already there then.

 

[sosocurious]

Could it have been that they left OW at home with her children - cannot recall what day she arrived down from Townsville ? But as you say no sooner home than straight on the Internet ? Interesting .

Who knows I just think it is odd that you would pop over to see a son that you can see daily, when you have a daughter who lives miles away visiting that time of nignt.
I actually wonder if they were there at all.

 

[linette]

Who knows I just think it is odd that you would pop over to see a son that you can see daily, when you have a daughter who lives miles away visiting that time of nignt.
I actually wonder if they were there at all.

Yes, it is a bit odd. Ow staying at their house yet they decide to go visit GBC , Allison and the kids. I assume the kids would have been in bed by then.

 

[McCoy]

Yes I recall it being a local who overheard it as well. Unsure as to who he was overheard speaking with but thought it was someone well-known in the community ??

Yes I heard him say this is in quite a loud voice in the Bar at Brookfield Show, I think it was Saturday night from memory. I couldn't see who he was talking to as it was crowded, someone else may know. It enraged me as he was laughing and saying "It's all out about Toni and me - it will be in the paper tomoworrow" or words to that effect. A few of the locals were rolling their eyes at his attitude.

 

[they'll get you]

Yes I heard him say this is in quite a loud voice in the Bar at Brookfield Show, I think it was Saturday night from memory. I couldn't see who he was talking to as it was crowded, someone else may know. It enraged me as he was laughing and saying "It's all out about Toni and me - it will be in the paper tomoworrow" or words to that effect. A few of the locals were rolling their eyes at his attitude.

This is interesting.
Please tell us everything you noticed? So he said it loud enough for many to hear? Amazing!
Are you a witness in this trial?
Did he appear drunk or just cocky?
I'm just gobsmacked!

 

[LadyBird1]

Yes I heard him say this is in quite a loud voice in the Bar at Brookfield Show, I think it was Saturday night from memory. I couldn't see who he was talking to as it was crowded, someone else may know. It enraged me as he was laughing and saying "It's all out about Toni and me - it will be in the paper tomoworrow" or words to that effect. A few of the locals were rolling their eyes at his attitude.

There was someone at the Brookfield show from AC site. That person was sitting quite close to both GBC and the Dickies. Observing his behaviour and also Mr D who just stared at GBC (nothing else) from very close.
After that I started to think, (after gathering my false teeth off the floor when I realized that socializing at the Local show was just part of business as usual); the primary reason for attending this very public event was; as a grieving widower, he ought be receiving public acclaim, some show of support, sympathy, whatever other monetary benefits go along with the recently bereaved status. Accolades IMO.

 

[Zim]

Been thinking....

It could not have been accidental.

Why ?

When the cops arrived at the house in the morning GBC was 'cool' and dressed and all, with cuff links even.

If it had been an accident he would have been blubbering. There would have been dark rings under his eyes and his eyes would have been red from the tears that he had shed....in fact he may have called an ambulance when he saw what he had done.

There was none of that ! Just sayin'.
IMO

 

[linette]

Been thinking....

It could not have been accidental.

Why ?

When the cops arrived at the house in the morning GBC was 'cool' and dressed and all, with cuff links even.

If it had been an accident he would have been blubbering. There would have been dark rings under his eyes and his eyes would have been red from the tears that he had shed....in fact he may have called an ambulance when he saw what he had done.

There was none of that ! Just sayin'.
IMO

You'd think there would be something like you described, hey? But no, just a man who was getting ready for work and just happened to notice his wife was missing at the same time.

 

[sosocurious]

Could help noting the irony
GBC to 000 - "I dont want to be an alarmist"
Interview Sgt Jackson - "Alright. Look, I'm trying to alarm you."
little bit of chat
GBC - "I'm a bit confused. Ah you said a-, a-, alarm me" (indistinct)

 

[GEANIE]

I think a few of the others discussed it during the hearing... and decided it was probably OW, she was already there then.

Wonder what OW children were told...Aunty Allison fell down a hole, and they would have been aware something was amiss with all the goings on.

Surely the cousins would have been talking between themselves????

<modsnip> :fence::banghead:

 

[McCoy]

This is interesting.
Please tell us everything you noticed? So he said it loud enough for many to hear? Amazing!
Are you a witness in this trial?
Did he appear drunk or just cocky?
I'm just gobsmacked!

No he just seemed "cocky" , that is a good way to describe his behaviour around that time. No I'm not a witness

 

[Maigret]

No he just seemed "cocky" , that is a good way to describe his behaviour around that time. No I'm not a witness

So he was probably thinking he had got away with it - they hadn't arrested him and he had moved back into the house by then ?

 

[Inspector]

So he was probably thinking he had got away with it - they hadn't arrested him and he had moved back into the house by then ?

Probably. But the show was in early to mid May I think. Plenty of time between then and his arrest in May to go from cocky to nerve-wracked. I know it felt like forever at the time for me. I wondered if he had got away with it. But rumours I trusted told me the walls were closing in on him, and they turned out to be correct :woot:

 

[Trooper]

So far, it's only the prosecution witnesses that have given testimony at the Commital hearing. Which resulted in Gerard going to trial for murder and interfering with a corpse.

At the trial.. there will be defence witnesses.. unless Davis goes the way of relying on flaws , big enough flaws in the prosecution, to rest Gerards case without any defence at all. I dont see that happening, but it is not to be discarded.

Toni isnt a witness for the defemce.. the 3 partners are not. The 2 doctors who checked out Gerard on the Saturday are not. The forensic accountant is not, and so on.. police persons etc..

So who is?? my guess is it has to be Nige to start with .. He was there when Gerard ' was in the process of dealing with the disappearance of his wife'.. and when he had his 'shaving accident'.. and Olivia.. since both of them were at the home where the murdered person went missing from before police arrived. I cant see how they would not be a part of the defence on those grounds.

The 3 blokes who lent Gerard money on a gentlemens agreement, .. character witnesses, etc. .god help them, they have a tough row to hoe, Gerards accounting expert, perhaps. .Perhaps Charles Tarbey, various other real estate people , but as to what they can verify in regard to Gerard I dont know. . .. your thoughts?

 

[Liadan]

So far, it's only the prosecution witnesses that have given testimony at the Commital hearing. Which resulted in Gerard going to trial for murder and interfering with a corpse.

At the trial.. there will be defence witnesses.. unless Davis goes the way of relying on flaws , big enough flaws in the prosecution, to rest Gerards case without any defence at all. I dont see that happening, but it is not to be discarded.

Toni isnt a witness for the defemce.. the 3 partners are not. The 2 doctors who checked out Gerard on the Saturday are not. The forensic accountant is not, and so on.. police persons etc..

So who is?? my guess is it has to be Nige to start with .. He was there when Gerard ' was in the process of dealing with the disappearance of his wife'.. and when he had his 'shaving accident'.. and Olivia.. since both of them were at the home where the murdered person went missing from before police arrived. I cant see how they would not be a part of the defence on those grounds.

The 3 blokes who lent Gerard money on a gentlemens agreement, .. character witnesses, etc. .god help them, they have a tough row to hoe, Gerards accounting expert, perhaps. .Perhaps Charles Tarbey, various other real estate people , but as to what they can verify in regard to Gerard I dont know. . .. your thoughts?

Looks like an uphill battle to me!

 

[Couldbe]

So far, it's only the prosecution witnesses that have given testimony at the Commital hearing. Which resulted in Gerard going to trial for murder and interfering with a corpse.

At the trial.. there will be defence witnesses.. unless Davis goes the way of relying on flaws , big enough flaws in the prosecution, to rest Gerards case without any defence at all. I dont see that happening, but it is not to be discarded.

Toni isnt a witness for the defemce.. the 3 partners are not. The 2 doctors who checked out Gerard on the Saturday are not. The forensic accountant is not, and so on.. police persons etc..

So who is?? my guess is it has to be Nige to start with .. He was there when Gerard ' was in the process of dealing with the disappearance of his wife'.. and when he had his 'shaving accident'.. and Olivia.. since both of them were at the home where the murdered person went missing from before police arrived. I cant see how they would not be a part of the defence on those grounds.

The 3 blokes who lent Gerard money on a gentlemens agreement, .. character witnesses, etc. .god help them, they have a tough row to hoe, Gerards accounting expert, perhaps. .Perhaps Charles Tarbey, various other real estate people , but as to what they can verify in regard to Gerard I dont know. . .. your thoughts?

The Defence Barrister Peter Davis, in questioning Kellie Beckett at the Committal, displayed some very creative accounting gymnastics to arrive at his conclusion that GBC could in fact be solvent ...... if & once all his assets + his percentage ownerships in the Settle Property Sales Pty Ltd company were realised and the debts paid out. He did make a point that an Application could be made to the Superannuation Fund to release the money (which can be possible under certain circumstances) ...... while it may be possible to make an Application, that does not mean that GBC/Allison would have actually qualified for that to happen (Peter Davis didn't mention that important fact!).
While Davis did weave his 'magic' and seemed to blind many, under scrutiny of an Expert Prosecution Barrister that claim of 'solvency' probably wouldn't hold up.
I think the aim of the Defence was to eliminate financial pressure as a motive for GBC murdering Allison. This didn't work at the Committal, and Judge Brendan Butler wasn't fooled.

 

[alioop]

I have now seen most of the remaining docs from the second bail application which one poster (not me) kindly paid for and as I expected they mostly aren't that helpful to us. There are affidavits of family members and friends of GBC offering amounts of money as surety for bail. I don't think it's appropriate to post these docs as they contain info personal to those people about their own financial positions. That info is not relevant to our sleuthing.

We already had the most relevant documents that have already been posted.

Sorry, but I suspected that we had already seen the most interesting docs and that the remaining ones would not add much of relevance to our sleuthing.

So we are not likely to see any more documents and will have to wait for the trial. We got lucky that he had a second go at bail and that lots of docs became available in the prosecutions challenge to bail.

 

[linette]

So far, it's only the prosecution witnesses that have given testimony at the Commital hearing. Which resulted in Gerard going to trial for murder and interfering with a corpse.

At the trial.. there will be defence witnesses.. unless Davis goes the way of relying on flaws , big enough flaws in the prosecution, to rest Gerards case without any defence at all. I dont see that happening, but it is not to be discarded.

Toni isnt a witness for the defemce.. the 3 partners are not. The 2 doctors who checked out Gerard on the Saturday are not. The forensic accountant is not, and so on.. police persons etc..

So who is?? my guess is it has to be Nige to start with .. He was there when Gerard ' was in the process of dealing with the disappearance of his wife'.. and when he had his 'shaving accident'.. and Olivia.. since both of them were at the home where the murdered person went missing from before police arrived. I cant see how they would not be a part of the defence on those grounds.

The 3 blokes who lent Gerard money on a gentlemens agreement, .. character witnesses, etc. .god help them, they have a tough row to hoe, Gerards accounting expert, perhaps. .Perhaps Charles Tarbey, various other real estate people , but as to what they can verify in regard to Gerard I dont know. . .. your thoughts?

There really doesn't seem to be much in the way of possible witnesses for the defence. Even if his parents are called up, what will they say? If they do know what happened they will have to lie... bit risky. I think they just prefer not to say anything, but if called up they will have to. Could they be hostile witness for the prosecution... if the police already suspect they know more can they be made to talk?

 

[Trooper]

There really doesn't seem to be much in the way of possible witnesses for the defence. Even if his parents are called up, what will they say? If they do know what happened they will have to lie... bit risky. I think they just prefer not to say anything, but if called up they will have to. Could they be hostile witness for the prosecution... if the police already suspect they know more can they be made to talk?

Whoever the defence calls to testify is not simply allowed to testify for the defence then step down, unless the prosecution says so. that is. ...once you take the stand, in defence of Gerard, whatever your testimony is about, you are subject to examination by the prosecution. If the prosecution wants to. And the reverse is equally true.. whoever testifies for the prosecution, is examined by the defence. Or can be. it isnt compulsory but it is usual.

My thoughts are that Nigel is almost a shoe in as a witness for the defence....and Olivia.. they being there when the when the missing person business was upgraded to a homicide investigation. It was at the house that morning that Sgt Jackson called in the Crime squad.

Im curious as to who else is pencilled in as a defence witness. Gerard taking the stand in his own defence.. this is dicey, and I won't call that one either way.