Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #45

[squizzey1]

If the prosecution and defence are ready for trial it's a damn shame it has to wait until 2014 nearly 2 years after the fact . I know witnesses have given statements but things blur and fade in your memory as time passes and the defence will seize this to their advantage at the trial - a trial later this year would have been a blessing IMOO!

yeah but as my son said . IF he does happen to get off he has at least been at the resort for 2 years anyway. AND by then the girls may want to live with the Dickies

 

[Sleuthis-maximus]

I have been reading some old news about this case, I still can't believe how abhorrent the 'business as usual' comment was given the circumstance he found himself in and the level of publicity the case was receiving at the time..also have been thinking about the '****, shower and shave' remark to the QPS...

Why would you choose to make these turns of phrase under the circumstances?

 

[AAAA]

I have been reading some old news about this case, I still can't believe how abhorrent the 'business as usual' comment was given the circumstance he found himself in and the level of publicity the case was receiving at the time..also have been thinking about the '****, shower and shave' remark to the QPS...

Why would you choose to make these turns of phrase under the circumstances?

My thinking on the S,S & S comment was him trying to build some kind of matesy rapport with the police. All it probably did though was make him look like more of a jerk, when he was supposed to be a concerned husband! IMO

 

[LadyBird1]

I have been reading some old news about this case, I still can't believe how abhorrent the 'business as usual' comment was given the circumstance he found himself in and the level of publicity the case was receiving at the time..also have been thinking about the '****, shower and shave' remark to the QPS...

Why would you choose to make these turns of phrase under the circumstances?

Yes the S* S* S comment (which was not requested or needed) was for an important reason. A deterrent. A quick way to deflect the aims of the real questioning. There was also the shock factor, in making such a crass statement, that would also deflect thoughts for the time being. IMO
Another thing stands out rather horribly. This is all about "I, my and me." Dressed well in business attire, with cufflinks; need to look good; (the facial marks probably won't get noticed.....)
If we could just ramp things up a bit, we can get along with business, alright?
Agree with Sleuth-maximus, under these circumstances......
(The wife might even be murdered, but that's relatively insignificant.....)

 

[KG1]

Interest earned would be 'quite nice', but an earlier poster pointed out that the funds are frozen, and I thought were implying that there wouldn't be any interest earned ....... good to know that interest would be earned .... no wonder GBC was smiling when he first arrived at the Committal (he only has to think of the money that 'could be' coming his way while he languishes in Arthur Gorrie .... away from all his financial woes!

Couldbe, the funds are frozen as in - frozen from distribution to beneficiaries or anyone else. Such funds and often awards of compensation for minors are held by courts, but they do earn interest. One of my children received an award of damages when she was about 9 years old and that was held by the Melbourne Magistrates court until she attained 18 years. The award had grown by another 60% during the intervening years. I think the courts are required to invest the funds, which would likely be invested as a court pool of funds.

 

[KG1]

My thinking on the S,S & S comment was him trying to build some kind of matesy rapport with the police. All it probably did though was make him look like more of a jerk, when he was supposed to be a concerned husband! IMO

I think you have hit the nail on the head there AAAA. He referred to 'Kieran' and 'Ash' when speaking to the 2nd lot of police to arrive. He was referring to the first two police officers to arrive at his premises. So yes, he was just being hail-fellow, well-met and trying to insert himself as one of the guys methinks. Sickening!

 

[marlywings]

If the prosecution and defence are ready for trial it's a damn shame it has to wait until 2014 nearly 2 years after the fact . I know witnesses have given statements but things blur and fade in your memory as time passes and the defence will seize this to their advantage at the trial - a trial later this year would have been a blessing IMOO!

It's going to be a long wait for the trial that's for sure. Even getting a trial date could take another few months.

I had a quick look at a few other murder cases. Trial date still hasn't been set for accused in Daniel Morcombe case...committal hearing was back in January.

Max Sica was arrested Dec 2008, trial wasn't held until last year.

Another case in which a son killed his father back in 2009...that trial only began last month.

 

[Curiousasacat]

I'm still here, have just been reading. Some fantastic posts have been happening. I just haven't had anything to add.
Wondering why we haven't heard anything about a date for trial?

LOL. Just read Marly's post above re date for trial. I wish they would hurry it along........

 

[Happygolucky]

What happened regards permission to band together and purchase documents presented at committal? Are they available for purchase or are the bail application documents all that we will see until the trial.

 

[Maigret]

If you were innocent wouldn't it feel like forever - wouldn't you have your family and friends lobbying all and sundry to have you released on bail if you were innocent .......

 

[whitechapel]

What happened regards permission to band together and purchase documents presented at committal? Are they available for purchase or are the bail application documents all that we will see until the trial.

HGL - I remember reading a post from Allioop a few days ago (in this thread) that she had researched the available docs and there was nothing of interest left to purchase.

Probably Marly can find the post if you want to read it.

 

[Maigret]

I have now seen most of the remaining docs from the second bail application which one poster (not me) kindly paid for and as I expected they mostly aren't that helpful to us. There are affidavits of family members and friends of GBC offering amounts of money as surety for bail. I don't think it's appropriate to post these docs as they contain info personal to those people about their own financial positions. That info is not relevant to our sleuthing.

We already had the most relevant documents that have already been posted.

Sorry, but I suspected that we had already seen the most interesting docs and that the remaining ones would not add much of relevance to our sleuthing.

So we are not likely to see any more documents and will have to wait for the trial. We got lucky that he had a second go at bail and that lots of docs became available in the prosecutions challenge to bail.

I found it -

 

[McCoy]

yeah but as my son said . IF he does happen to get off he has at least been at the resort for 2 years anyway. AND by then the girls may want to live with the Dickies

Unfortunately at that age I don't think they get a choice do they? Think of the Italian father girls saga. if Gerard is set free he will be their legal guardian. All the more reason for hoping the case goes the other way

 

[Fuskier]

DrWatson - regarding the autopsy report, I'm wondering about the advanced state of decomposition of Allison's tongue - after only 11 days? The suggestion contained in that report is that flies & bugs tend to attract to areas of injury first, which may suggest that her face/mouth was an area of injury - potentially explaining the rapid decay of the soft tissues of face and tongue which has obliterated evidence of those injuries. Just looking for an explanation as to the reason so little of Allison's tongue remained only after 11 days? Is this normal decay or could it have been likely that her tongue sustained a cut/injury?

 

[Judicious]

If the prosecution and defence are ready for trial it's a damn shame it has to wait until 2014 nearly 2 years after the fact . I know witnesses have given statements but things blur and fade in your memory as time passes and the defence will seize this to their advantage at the trial - a trial later this year would have been a blessing IMOO!

I've never been a witness in any Court case and hope I am never in a situation where I have to be a witness. I think though that it would be nearly impossible for a witness to forget what they've seen,heard,said or what is written in their Statement, even if the case took years to go to Trial.
A witness has contact with their Lawyer from time to time in the period the case is waiting to go to Trial. Their Lawyer will call the Witness at times to go through their Statement (especially if another witness Statement has been amended).
A few months before the Trial their Lawyer will go through everything in the Statement with the Witness from front to back and back to front and will often throw you a question that he feels the Lawyer from the opposition may ask you.
These visits to the Lawyer aren't always short visits, they can be 9-10 hour visits and at times will run for a few consecutive days (not all cases are the same though).
As a witness you are asked to read all the info you have before you meet with your Lawyer to go through the Statement etc. (sometimes this info can consist of folders of information..( once again I guess that depends on each individual case)
It isn't easy being a witness, the Lawyer from the opposite side will sometimes push you to breaking point, try and twist your words and try and make out you are not telling the truth.
If a witness has to take the stand day after day, It can be very tiring and emotionally draining for them.
I think a witness like TMH that has already cracked under pressure from the Committal hearing is sure to crack big time at the Trial. I think they will eat her up and spit her out.
At the end of the the day if the witness has told the truth I would hope they leave the court with their head held high, knowing they have helped in 'justice being served'.
In GBC case I sure hope justice is served !!

my opinion only...

 

[squizzey1]

Unfortunately at that age I don't think they get a choice do they? Think of the Italian father girls saga. if Gerard is set free he will be their legal guardian. All the more reason for hoping the case goes the other way

Yes I think you are right, just wishful thinking i guess

 

[DrWatson]

DrWatson - regarding the autopsy report, I'm wondering about the advanced state of decomposition of Allison's tongue - after only 11 days? The suggestion contained in that report is that flies & bugs tend to attract to areas of injury first, which may suggest that her face/mouth was an area of injury - potentially explaining the rapid decay of the soft tissues of face and tongue which has obliterated evidence of those injuries. Just looking for an explanation as to the reason so little of Allison's tongue remained only after 11 days? Is this normal decay or could it have been likely that her tongue sustained a cut/injury?

Good question Fuskier. However, the tongue is one of the early casualties in decomposition, perhaps aided by the action of enzymes in the mouth. You may notice (and again, apologies for the graphic mental images here) that the decomposition had affected her entire head quite significantly. the skull was exposed in some areas, the hair detached at the slightest touch or pull, her face was decomposed beyond recognition (the pathologist commented on the fact that it could not be used for identification). The decomposition was really quite advanced - probably due to the partial immersion each high tide keeping everything wet.

So, I'd have to hedge my bets like Nathan Milne did in his autopsy report, and say that while we can't EXCLUDE trauma or other damage to the tongue that may have occurred prior to the body being found, the decomposition would be consistent with the length of time she'd been there. I don't think it would have needed tissue damage to start the decomposition process of the tongue.

But very good thinking and sleuthing there - I'm impressed

 

[Judicious]

The money is "frozen" in the sense that no one can have it until the court makes further orders. I have done some research and if it has been paid into the Litigants Fund which is a federal court fund held with a bank, then it is non interest bearing. So unless there were specific orders for it to be invested in an interest bearing account then it would have been paid into this fund. When orders are made to pay it out, it then gets withdrawn from this fund. Allison's estate and GBC were represented at both hearings so they would have been aware of the interest consequences.

Thanks for the info Alioop and for putting us on the right track. I am so pleased the money is earning interest and so hope it goes to Allison's little girls. I just hope there is enough evidence, although circumstantial to convict GBC.

 

[Phantom's Diana]

I've never been a witness in any Court case and hope I am never in a situation where I have to be a witness. I think though that it would be nearly impossible for a witness to forget what they've seen,heard,said or what is written in their Statement, even if the case took years to go to Trial.
A witness has contact with their Lawyer from time to time in the period the case is waiting to go to Trial. Their Lawyer will call the Witness at times to go through their Statement (especially if another witness Statement has been amended).
A few months before the Trial their Lawyer will go through everything in the Statement with the Witness from front to back and back to front and will often throw you a question that he feels the Lawyer from the opposition may ask you.
These visits to the Lawyer aren't always short visits, they can be 9-10 hour visits and at times will run for a few consecutive days (not all cases are the same though).
As a witness you are asked to read all the info you have before you meet with your Lawyer to go through the Statement etc. (sometimes this info can consist of folders of information..( once again I guess that depends on each individual case)
It isn't easy being a witness, the Lawyer from the opposite side will sometimes push you to breaking point, try and twist your words and try and make out you are not telling the truth.
If a witness has to take the stand day after day, It can be very tiring and emotionally draining for them.
I think a witness like TMH that has already cracked under pressure from the Committal hearing is sure to crack big time at the Trial. I think they will eat her up and spit her out.
At the end of the the day if the witness has told the truth I would hope they leave the court with their head held high, knowing they have helped in 'justice being served'.
In GBC case I sure hope justice is served !!

my opinion only...

In P Brooms affidavit he makes the strong point that GBC and TM were such liars and couldn't believe what they said. They will have to tell the truth under oath and intense questioning - but I do wonder if TM four statements have been entirely truthful after all they have lied to so many people for so many years its in their nature to twist the truth!

 

[Judicious]

In P Brooms affidavit he makes the strong point that GBC and TM were such liars and couldn't believe what they said. They will have to tell the truth under oath and intense questioning - but I do wonder if TM four statements have been entirely truthful after all they have lied to so many people for so many years its in their nature to twist the truth!

We would all like to think people tell the truth under oath, sadly enough that isn't always the case. I can't see GBC changing his story, I think he's told so many lies that he himself is believing what he says is true. I would love to see them put him on the stand and he be questioned..he would crumble big time, he couldn't even keep his story straight when the Police interviewed him and his mistress is no better. It will be interesting to hear TMH's 5th Statement !!!



all my opinion only...