Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #47

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Isisrising said:
Firstly, thanks Amee for the link to the bail application!:seeya:

Secondly - that is really serious if the BC's were 'debriefing' the girls!

I began my psych career in child protection and subsequently had to deal with numerous disclosures from children. It was CRUCIAL not to probe or question them in any leading way - rather we were trained to listen and be supportive but neutral. If we were found to have 'led' them into memories in any way, it wouldn't make it through court and they remained with the abusers.

All the research indicates that children in particular, can be easily led and manipulated in such situations. It is alarmingly easy to plant false information in their minds, particularly if they are already traumatised (as ABC's daughter's would have been) and if they are wanting to please the people 'debriefing' them. And it would be natural to want to please your grandparents......

That is truly alarming news!!!:facepalm:
Click to expand...

Yes Isisrising, Alarming indeed. Have been thinking about this today especially, in light of our adult memories becoming slightly cloudy about detail. It is truly alarming to consider the tender mind of a child and how easy it would be to re-arrange her memory. Or brain-wash her.
A critical re-arrangement would be "Where did you spend the night?"
A few sessions of brainwashing later, and the child may even say, "I don't remember" or "At home."
This may come about either by successfully brainwashing or by fear of the repercussions in giving the wrong answer.
 
Isisrising said:
Firstly, thanks Amee for the link to the bail application!:seeya:

Secondly - that is really serious if the BC's were 'debriefing' the girls!

I began my psych career in child protection and subsequently had to deal with numerous disclosures from children. It was CRUCIAL not to probe or question them in any leading way - rather we were trained to listen and be supportive but neutral. If we were found to have 'led' them into memories in any way, it wouldn't make it through court and they remained with the abusers.

All the research indicates that children in particular, can be easily led and manipulated in such situations. It is alarmingly easy to plant false information in their minds, particularly if they are already traumatised (as ABC's daughter's would have been) and if they are wanting to please the people 'debriefing' them. And it would be natural to want to please your grandparents......

That is truly alarming news!!!:facepalm:
Click to expand...

just wanted to add that if children are scared they will do and say whatever they are told to say for fear of reprisals later. been there done that
 
LadyBird1 said:
Yes Isisrising, Alarming indeed. Have been thinking about this today especially, in light of our adult memories becoming slightly cloudy about detail. It is truly alarming to consider the tender mind of a child and how easy it would be to re-arrange her memory. Or brain-wash her.
A critical re-arrangement would be "Where did you spend the night?"
A few sessions of brainwashing later, and the child may even say, "I don't remember" or "At home."
This may come about either by successfully brainwashing or by fear of the repercussions in giving the wrong answer.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, LadyBird1! The research into false confessions in recent years completely supports the ease with which it can be done if the suspect is emotionally vulnerable and has a low IQ ......the West Memphis Three being a great case in point.

It would be even easier with a child, especially regarding things such as times.....:facepalm:
 
nothing public about the court hearing so far?? I had it down for the 24th also.. maybe later.
 
I agree the mere mention of the word debriefing from a children is not normal, particularly given the situation.

Plain cloths Kellie Thompson in her statement says at 10.04am
As I moved the paper I observed a note that was handwritten which appeared to be a note from a child.
I then had a conversation with the defendant about the note which was digitally recorded and the defendant informed me that the note was written by his daughter S that morning.
I then seized the note.

After going outside and talking to officers

This then caused inquiries to be made in relation to forward and reverse call charges to Allison's phone. Mmm

11.43am KT asked GBC to use use his phone to ring Allison - result location not available.

It was not long after this GBC --- according to statement - became worried about the children and asked could they be picked up from school by OW.

It was daughter S that was the one that made reference to debriefing to the sitter.

What was in that note?
 
Does anyone know how we can try to find the videos that no longer seem to be accessible on MSM sites? I do remember the video Amee referred to above - here was the post I made:

I posted this a while back - not sure if anyone listened to the report - I'm still not sure what the reporter means, but may shed light on what the girls were saying.

http://ten.com.au/ten-news-brisbane.htm - the one titled Gerard Baden-Clay


Just watched this footage. I'm confused by something the reporter says at 2:30. Something about the children not been allowed to speak to anyone until a debrief. The way she words it, I'm unsure if she means the police were telling people this, or the children were telling people this. It really does sound like she means the children were saying this.

If the children were telling people this, maybe this was the 'strange' thing that the children said when the police arrived the morning Allison was reported missing?
Click to expand...
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176688&page=48


BBM
At the 2min 30sec mark is when the comment was made about the children by the reporter. If anyone happens across any of the 2012 videos, it might be worth checking that time to see if we can find it.
 
Isisrising said:
Firstly, thanks Amee for the link to the bail application!:seeya:

Secondly - that is really serious if the BC's were 'debriefing' the girls!

I began my psych career in child protection and subsequently had to deal with numerous disclosures from children. It was CRUCIAL not to probe or question them in any leading way - rather we were trained to listen and be supportive but neutral. If we were found to have 'led' them into memories in any way, it wouldn't make it through court and they remained with the abusers.

All the research indicates that children in particular, can be easily led and manipulated in such situations. It is alarmingly easy to plant false information in their minds, particularly if they are already traumatised (as ABC's daughter's would have been) and if they are wanting to please the people 'debriefing' them. And it would be natural to want to please your grandparents......

That is truly alarming news!!!:facepalm:
Click to expand...

Excellent opinion in this post IMO. Let's hope LE are reading WS. :goodpost:
 
ozazure said:
fingers crossed! Hopefully the statement to the hairdresser went beyond having the night off and she told her the girls were staying overnight too, which will add to the weight of the friend's statement and whatever Toni might have said on record. From the sounds of it the girls made unofficial statements that morning too about their whereabouts. He really was used to his lies being accepted to think that he could get away with this kind of sloppy alibi building. I think the changing initial story was a result of this fast and easy lying, maybe he saw the WTF in the police's eyes when he supposedly slept through her not returning from a night walk and switched it up to an early morning one. Will be very interesting to see all these details teased out.
Click to expand...
With all respect; I doubt if the hairdresser statement will throw any true light onto the matter of where the children actually spent the night.
The reason being, IMO, GBC has made elaborate plans to establish the fact that the children were definitely at home. Another might use words like planting alibis or evidence.
Given his track record for telling outright fibs to being vague or derailing questions; one might be forgiven for thinking this too was a setup.
Where the children actually were and where the children were supposed to be is probably two different matters.
 
This doesn't relate to the discussion at the moment about children;

but, I am wondering if GBC decides to plead Guilty, then would he have to back up the 'guilty plea' and provide a description of what his actual actions entailed .... in murdering Allison and interfering with her corpse?

My question may be for you Alioop.
 
I do wonder who the "friends" were that told TM Allison would be at the conference, and why did TM ring GBC when she realised Allison wasnt there?
There could have been many reasons why Allison didnt go. Plans can change at the last minute. Why the concern for Allison not being there, after all thats what TM wanted wasnt it?

TM makes me sick. Even after she found out about the other 2 lovers she still declares her love for him. :banghead:
She will be waiting for him not matter what IMO

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ommittal-hearing/story-e6freoof-1226600160604
 
Strangeworld said:
Wish me luck - I'm going to start reading Allison's threads from #1 tomorrow - aiming for 1/2 to 1 thread a day, give or take.

I've forgotten too many of the finer details of the facts, and need a refresher. If anyone wants me to keep a look out for anything in particular, let me know on here or via private message.

Guess I'm going to need that popcorn......
Click to expand...

Good luck with that Strangeworld! Luckily there's been 10's of 1,000s of posts removed & we'd be close on 100 threads...otherwise you'd be still reading until this time next year :D
 
Makara said:
I've been searching through some old news footage and found this one from 2012 before Allison was found. I'm still searching for other news footage in relation to the girls and the debriefing comment.

http://www.qutnews.com/2012/04/26/search-for-brookfield-mum-continues/
Click to expand...

Makara & anyone else who is searching. I don't have time right now but one of the best places to search is Brisbane Times as 10News links their news videos to BT. Majority of the older reports & vids still seem to be there.

All search results on BrisbaneTimes for GBC. The date on the video should be around 22nd June,2012.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/exe...ext=gerard+baden+clay&ss=brisbanetimes.com.au
 
I went to court this morning for the pre recording of evidence set down for today but if it was on, it wasnt listed and not open to the public. So I sat in on the Cowen trial for the murder of Daniel Morcombe and listened to the mornings witnesses.
 
Amee said:
I do wonder who the "friends" were that told TM Allison would be at the conference, and why did TM ring GBC when she realised Allison wasnt there?
There could have been many reasons why Allison didnt go. Plans can change at the last minute. Why the concern for Allison not being there, after all thats what TM wanted wasnt it?

TM makes me sick. Even after she found out about the other 2 lovers she still declares her love for him. :banghead:
She will be waiting for him not matter what IMO

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ommittal-hearing/story-e6freoof-1226600160604
Click to expand...
That is a good point Amee .... if Allison wasn't there, surely TM should have thought there was a good chance that Allison would be with her husband! Why risk getting him 'embarrassed' when Allison could have been close by!

I don't think that we ever thought TM was telling the truth about that phone call!
 
Couldbe said:
This doesn't relate to the discussion at the moment about children;

but, I am wondering if GBC decides to plead Guilty, then would he have to back up the 'guilty plea' and provide a description of what his actual actions entailed .... in murdering Allison and interfering with her corpse?

My question may be for you Alioop.
Click to expand...

I would think that the prosecution would want his version of events if he changed his plea to guilty of murder. Though as the life sentence is mandatory and for a fixed term of 15 yrs there is nothing legally for him to gain by doing that.
He is more likely to plead guilty to manslaughter but I think the prosecution would need him to convince them of his version of events for them to agree to not continue to prosecute on the murder charges.
 
http://www.news.com.au/national/hus...den-clay-goes-on/story-e6frfkvr-1226339293043
April 27, 2012 5:12PM

Husband of missing mum hires lawyer and releases statement

Ms Baden-Clay's parents were joined by around 50 members of their local community at a church service last night.

The Church of the Good Shepherd is located next door to the Baden-Clay family's home on Brookfield Rd - the spot where Ms Baden-Clay went missing a week ago.

A service was held at 6pm and the church was left open through the night for people to light a candle and pray.

"Allison's parents and family were here last night. (The family) are part our parish," Reverend Bev Bell said.

"People have a sense of helplessness in these situations.

"We've kept the doors open this past week so that people can come and go and will continue to do so in the coming days."

Ms Baden-Clay's husband did not attend the service.


BBM - just thought this was interesting
 
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