Amanda Knox found guilty for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy #15

[aa9511]

I wonder what internet-girl Raffaele is texting now trying to see what he can use her for...............................................

 

[BritsKate]

Hey Brit's Kate! My post and Jacies response were speaking to US vs Italy and not Europe at large. And although in my mind I was talking about the trial process and not necessarily about post-conviction concerns such as prison conditions, my use of the term justice system didn't really make that clear. In the context of the system in total in all of Europe your points are good ones. And of course the one big disadvantage to our defendants is the death penalty

My point though, in highlighting the disparities between America and Europe - to include post-conviction relief - is to show just how pro-defendant Europe truly is.

Being an American living abroad I can say with absolute certainty that all Americans are very often painted with a broad brush - like we don't understand irony or sarcasm; we eat nothing but cheeseburgers; we like everything as big as possible... As such, I think I'm probably very sensitive to broad-brushing another culture or society. Portugal was inept and corrupt in the McCann case; Italy is archaic, corrupt, and politically motivated in the Knox-Sollecito case. I believe A LOT is lost in translation.

If anything, Italy is even more 'pro-defendant' than England because there defendants convicted reserve the right to an appeal on any grounds. In an American court an appeal is heard solely on merits of legal errors. The differences in the two systems are vast though and, as such, I don't believe truly comparable. Here's a really good paper I located explaining the differences between judiciaries and why, in turn, some Americans may be predisposed to believing Italy downright medieval over their criminal justice system. A charge, I believe, that's misguided by media influence. JMO

http://www.bu.edu/law/central/jd/or...ional/volume30n1/documents/note_mirabella.pdf

 

[redheadedgal]

So who believes Steve Moore's theory of the case:

Guede was a police informant that avoided detention after the Milan break in because Perugia police insisted that he be released to Perugia. When he murdered Meredith, police had no choice but to arrest Knox and Sollecito because this would apparently cover up the fact that their police informant murdered Meredith. The Supreme Court is in on this conspiracy.

isn't this mark waterbury's theory, not moore's? http://www.sciencespheres.com/2010/04/inevitable-unexpected-and-theory-of.html

http://www.westseattleherald.com/2011/09/27/news/update-5-amanda-knox-court-today-prosecutor-migni


"Also high drama in court today as Michelle Moore, the wife of Steve Moore, retired FBI expert and outspoken critic of the prosecution, (both in the courtroom as observers), decided it would be a good idea to let Mignini know she though he was "an evil person". She is now being detained. She may receive a costly fine for insulting (libeling) him. At this time she is not allowed to leave the building."
Update: She was held for an hour and has been released.

thanks amber. that's one i hadn't heard before. however, another article contradicts that she shouted anything about him being "evil"... according to bellenews.com, she sought him out on a break and said "you have no heart":

http://www.bellenews.com/2011/09/27...-loving-young-woman-a-defense-lawyer-claimed/


btw, i'm still looking for the exact amounts of dna collected for RG and RS... i could only locate one (view from wilmington) that said less than 200 picograms of RS was found on the clasp... are you aware of more official sources?

Keeping it classy...?

You could say that :floorlaugh:

Who yells out at a prosecutor in open court this way?

what exactly happened is unproven except she said something to mignini... and as per his usual pathetic m.o. he tried to charge her with slander (lol)

yet it's acceptable that stefanoni lied in court while testifying? that seems way more heinous, unprofessional and unethical to me.

When was the last time you showered in a small bathroom with someone's stinking feces in the bowl? They probably stank up the whole apartment, even over the blood and bleach.

The bra clasp had Knox's DNA on it.

the dirty toilet was not in the bathroom where she showered.

her dna was not on the bra clasp. none of her dna was found in MK's bedroom.


speaking of evidence of amanda in the bedroom... someone seemed to have a "eureka" moment that the lamp is evidence of knox's presence. this isn't true. if one cannot prove with certainly how the lamp got to MK's room (and no one can), it cannot be asserted that it's 1) evidence of AK being in there, and 2) evidence AK was in there that night.

 

[redheadedgal]

Are you Canadian by any chance?

i am... relevance?

 

[dog.gone.cute]

I had never followed this case until the new trial/verdict that ended just the other day. Since then I've gone back and read a lot about the case, watched interviews, etc. I think the only person that is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt is RG... and it's a joke that he could potentially be released this year.

BBM: And when Rudy will be "checking out" of :jail: Knox and Rafaelle will be "checking in" :jail:

AND, Knox and Raf's sentences will be longer than Rudy's sentence ...

:twocents:

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Tacopina came to Perugia as a paid consultant for ABC News to investigate the real story behind the Kercher murder, and I interviewed him for Newsweek in Rome in March. He said he was acting as a consultant to the family, even though he was being paid by ABC, and he was the first to call foul on the missteps by Italian investigators. But he also told me that deep down, he wasn’t sure about Amanda’s story.

From the above link.

BBM: Ah, Tacopina, a high profile Defense attorney ...

:twocents: Tacopina NOT wanting to get involved in this case speaks volumes, IMO ...

:moo:

 

[dog.gone.cute]

I had been following this case. However the last time I truly paid close attention was when she was released. Since it has been long enough for the details to fade I want to go and start from the beginning re-looking at it.

Where would you all recommend I start? A particular book that covers the case very well? (NOT written by one of the players obvi. Something rooted in facts. I'd actually prefer it to be written by someone who isn't American, Italian OR British... but that may be asking a lot.)

(Also does anyone else notice how Amanda's new look makes her look just like RS?)

:seeya:

1st BBM: IMO, the most unbiased book is John Follain's Death in Perugia.

2nd BBM: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:


:twocents:

 

[dog.gone.cute]

I don't think extradition proceedings have anything to do with what is portrayed by media. The extradition treaty is between the U.S. and Italy. It's not up to the media/public to decide whether or not she is extradited.
Also what do you guys think will happen if Amanda does not get extradited but Raffaele has to do the time?

:seeya:

BBM: JMO, but I am not sure what Raf will do ... it could either way ...

In other words, WHEN -- not IF -- when Raf goes back to :jail: and IF Knox does not go to :jail: Raf needs to "spills his guts" !

See, IF not for Knox, Raf would NOT have been there that night ... Knox is the "pivotal point" -- not Raf, and not Rudy ...

:twocents:

 

[Jacie Estes]

I disagree. I think all of those things worked in her favor, very much so. If she didn't have these things in her favor, even just some of those things, there would be no Friends of Amanda, no supporters, no experts wanting to speak for her, no politicians wanting to go near her story, no people donating to her - no donations. She would be in prison and forgotten.

She must have her college loans paid off with all the donations AND without a degree yet, she must be a millionaire from the book. I wonder what her tax return will look like this year.

She has learned one thing, crime pays. Unfortunately, it is Meredith and her family that learned that lesson the hardest way.

 

[aa9511]

:seeya:

BBM: JMO, but I am not sure what Raf will do ... it could either way ...

In other words, WHEN -- not IF -- when Raf goes back to :jail: and IF Knox does not go to :jail: Raf needs to "spills his guts" !

See, IF not for Knox, Raf would NOT have been there that night ... Knox is the "pivotal point" -- not Raf, and not Rudy ...

:twocents:

This is what I think will happen: RS will wait for the verdict to be approved and signed off by the Supreme Court. He will wait until any appeals are denied. For example, people suggest on here from time to time that they can appeal to some European Council or something like that? Anyway, after all appeals are over with, and if Amanda is not going to prison or already in prison with him by that time - he is going to then release a letter to the media. He is going to do it in a very Rudy-like fashion, meaning he will absolve himself of any wrong-doing, while still spilling the beans on what happened. But he will just take himself out of the equation, and leave it at Amanda and Rudy.

One way I have thought of, is he might go to his "load of rubbish" story and say that he was at his house the whole time. That Amanda wanted to do a prank on Meredith, he was tired and didn't really feel like it, so she said she would ask that guy Rudy from the basketball courts. She left with her burglar costume (mask, gloves, and whatever else), and she took his butcher knife as a prop.

He stayed at home and watched Naruto.

Suddenly, Amanda runs in hysterical. She has blood on her pants, she is crying hysterically. She said she accidentally struck Meredith with the knife. She said she and Rudy didn't know what to do. They had to stab her more to make it look like someone else did it intentionally. She was so hysterical and crying.

RS tells her everything will be ok, but you need to call police right now. She refuses, she says how can she call police, they'll know she did it? Besides, Meredith is already dead....what good would calling the police do now??

She says she has to clean up and go back to the cottage to try to remove any evidence there is of her. She asks Raffaele to join her, but he can't. He tells her he won't get involved in something like this. He promises her that he won't call the police or tell anyone, as long as she doesn't involve him in any of this. They agree to this.

Amanda cleans up and takes some cleaning stuff with her and goes back to the cottage.

RS waits at his place, frantically waiting. He tries to lay down, but he's very restless, he just paces back and forth in his house.

Finally, Amanda comes back at around 5:30. She is exhausted, he can tell she doesn't want to talk, and she turns on some music to relax her. She sleeps for a couple of hours, and then they discuss their plan and what they are going to tell everyone and what they are going to tell police.

etc., etc..

In these interviews, they never ask any detailed questions anyway. He can get away, IMO, with making up a story like that because no one will question him about the details since he will not be doing it in a court of law. You know, in the interviews they always ask generic-type questions and RS and Amanda probably give them list ahead of time of which questions they won't answer. That's how these interviews work. That's why we get no real information from them.

 

[otto]

That's one of the most obnoxious bits of drivel I've read lately. Maybe Ms. Churcher has a bit of bias her own self.':facepalm:

Who is Ms Churcher?

Is that some sort of slur against the victim?

 

[Nymeria]

Unless of course the accused is famous....Americans are easily fooled by the famous persona of "stars" and manipulated by the teams of spin doctors and high priced tv personality defense lawyers.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

*BBM*

Only if they are shallow, easily influenced, non-critical thinking people.
I do not think this is exclusive to "Americans".
You can find people like this on any continent.

PS- I am mostly just reading along here, did not even follow the case very closely. And I most times am inclined to agree with a lot of stereotypes about Americans....but the more this thread goes on the more I feel like going out and waving the stars and stripes and chanting "USA" :facepalm:


PPS- Just realized my signature does EXACTLY that! :giggle:
I am just excited for the Olympics, please excuse my overt patriotism.

PPPS- I also might add that I find in general "celebrities" tend to be judged even more harshly. People love to watch the mighty fall. IMO.

 

[otto]

This is what I think will happen: RS will wait for the verdict to be approved and signed off by the Supreme Court. He will wait until any appeals are denied. For example, people suggest on here from time to time that they can appeal to some European Council or something like that? Anyway, after all appeals are over with, and if Amanda is not going to prison or already in prison with him by that time - he is going to then release a letter to the media. He is going to do it in a very Rudy-like fashion, meaning he will absolve himself of any wrong-doing, while still spilling the beans on what happened. But he will just take himself out of the equation, and leave it at Amanda and Rudy.

One way I have thought of, is he might go to his "load of rubbish" story and say that he was at his house the whole time. That Amanda wanted to do a prank on Meredith, he was tired and didn't really feel like it, so she said she would ask that guy Rudy from the basketball courts. She left with her burglar costume (mask, gloves, and whatever else), and she took his butcher knife as a prop.

He stayed at home and watched Naruto.

Suddenly, Amanda runs in hysterical. She has blood on her pants, she is crying hysterically. She said she accidentally struck Meredith with the knife. She said she and Rudy didn't know what to do. They had to stab her more to make it look like someone else did it intentionally. She was so hysterical and crying.

RS tells her everything will be ok, but you need to call police right now. She refuses, she says how can she call police, they'll know she did it? Besides, Meredith is already dead....what good would calling the police do now??

She says she has to clean up and go back to the cottage to try to remove any evidence there is of her. She asks Raffaele to join her, but he can't. He tells her he won't get involved in something like this. He promises her that he won't call the police or tell anyone, as long as she doesn't involve him in any of this. They agree to this.

Amanda cleans up and takes some cleaning stuff with her and goes back to the cottage.

RS waits at his place, frantically waiting. He tries to lay down, but he's very restless, he just paces back and forth in his house.

Finally, Amanda comes back at around 5:30. She is exhausted, he can tell she doesn't want to talk, and she turns on some music to relax her. She sleeps for a couple of hours, and then they discuss their plan and what they are going to tell everyone and what they are going to tell police.

etc., etc..

In these interviews, they never ask any detailed questions anyway. He can get away, IMO, with making up a story like that because no one will question him about the details since he will not be doing it in a court of law. You know, in the interviews they always ask generic-type questions and RS and Amanda probably give them list ahead of time of which questions they won't answer. That's how these interviews work. That's why we get no real information from them.

Based on the interviews I've seen of Knox, it is very obvious that she will not interview with anyone that does not take the position that she is a victim.

In line with the Manga Anime discussion yesterday, google search of: "Naruto" Anime Violence
It takes me to a short youtube clip of knife violence where a woman is stabbed.

 

[Karmady]

Who is Ms Churcher?

Is that some sort of slur against the victim?

The author of the article?

I have to say, that's quite a leap, imo, to suggest that it was a slur against the victim. Who would have bias in writing an article but its author? And why would I refer to the deceased in the present tense to say she has bias? For that matter, why would anyone assume I was slurring Meredith? Because my posts indicate I don't think Knox was proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, ergo I MUST disrespect the victim?

 

[otto]

isn't this mark waterbury's theory, not moore's? http://www.sciencespheres.com/2010/04/inevitable-unexpected-and-theory-of.html

It is Steve Moore's theory.
Perhaps it has always been the Friends of Amanda theory.


Interview with Steve Moore regarding theory of crime:

http://outfront.blogs.cnn.com/2014/01/31/amanda-knox-i-will-never-go-willingly-back-to-italy/

(the theory is that it's a huge conspiracy theory involving everyone from police officers to the Supreme Court)

 

[otto]

The author of the article?

I have to say, that's quite a leap, imo, to suggest that it was a slur against the victim. Who would have bias in writing an article but its author? And why would I refer to the deceased in the present tense to say she has bias? For that matter, why would anyone assume I was slurring Meredith? Because my posts indicate I don't think Knox was proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, ergo I MUST disrespect the victim?

Thanks. When I view the article, the author space is blank. Where did you see that Ms Churcher is the author:

[author]
[datecreated]
She is a wholesome-looking young woman who, before
her life exploded with the depraved killing of her British
flatmate Meredith Kercher, had become adept at presenting
two faces to the world.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492893/Foxy-Knoxy-girl-compete-mother-men.html

My mistake. I see ... it was Susan Churcher.

 

[aa9511]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/01/raffaele-sollecito-denies-flee-italy

Another article about Raffaele trying to flee...maybe it has been posted here before.

 

[TorisMom003]

Did the Supreme Court that annulled the Hellman verdict (or appeal) read both the Hellman report and the Massei report?

 

[SMK]

Did the Supreme Court that annulled the Hellman verdict (or appeal) read both the Hellman report and the Massei report?

They did; as well as reading Dr. Galati's critique of all the Hellmann points, in his appeal to the Supreme Court of Cassation.

 

[otto]

Did the Supreme Court that annulled the Hellman verdict (or appeal) read both the Hellman report and the Massei report?

I would think so. The appeal only addressed the points that were approved for appeal, so in order to understand the context for those points, members of the Supreme Court would have to understand the case ... which is only possible by reading the trial summary report (Massei).

That said, the Judge in this appeal said that they had to read 30 reports, so perhaps the same is true of the Surpreme Court.