Amanda Knox New Motivation Report RE: Meredith Kercher Murder #1 *new trial ordered*

[Malkmus]

Your point about overlooking confessions is unrelated to what I implied. Most of us get tired in the wee hours of the night and are less able to think coherently.

Dr. Giobbi testified that he was mathematically sure he said to bring them both in. In addition, Raffaele's book notes that a policeperson put the name of a lawyer into his hand before the 5th. And (as Malkmus unearthed a long time ago IIRC) there was a report in an Italian media outlet on the 5th that started out "Ominous Words" and went on to say that it was not unlikely that a witness would become a suspect in the next few hours.(snip)

And I would add to that, from Burleigh's book:

Erika Pontini, who covered the case in Perugia for La Nazione of Florence and who was close to Officer Napoleoni, recalled, “On the night of the fifth, we knew, journalists knew, something was going to happen. They thought Sollecito was the fragile link in the chain.”

 

[otto]

Your point about overlooking confessions is unrelated to what I implied. Most of us get tired in the wee hours of the night and are less able to think coherently.

Dr. Giobbi testified that he was mathematically sure he said to bring them both in. In addition, Raffaele's book notes that a policeperson put the name of a lawyer into his hand before the 5th. And (as Malkmus unearthed a long time ago IIRC) there was a report in an Italian media outlet on the 5th that started out "Ominous Words" and went on to say that it was not unlikely that a witness would become a suspect in the next few hours. So we can dispense with the canard that there was much of anything voluntary about the planned his-and-hers interrogation as far as I am concerned.

Amanda's so-called confession reminds me of Frank Esposito's confession. After the police browbeat/cajoled him to say that he started a fire accidentally, they charged him with arson. In other words, the police came up with a charge that did not actually resemble the false confession all that closely. Nothing in Amanda's statements said anything about a cleanup or staging; she said that she didn't remember whether Raffaele was present; there is nothing to indicate how or when she returned to Raffaele's, etc. Her statements were gibberish, and an intellectually honest cop should have been able to recognize it as such. Instead, the cops rushed out and busted Lumumba before even asking him some entirely reasonable questions ("Where were you on the night of..."). That, too, should tell us something, and not about Amanda or Raffaele.

Is there a law in Italy that says witnesses cannot be questioned at any particular time? If not, then I don't see a problem with whatever investigators did while investigating a vicious murder.

There's that funny faulty memory again ... Knox can't remember anything that happened leading up to the murder of Meredith. We know that. She does remember Patrick murdering Meredith, but that's all.

 

[otto]

And I would add to that, from Burleigh's book:"Erika Pontini, who covered the case in Perugia for La Nazione of Florence and who was close to Officer Napoleoni, recalled, “On the night of the fifth, we knew, journalists knew, something was going to happen. They thought Sollecito was the fragile link in the chain.”

That suggests to me that everyone knew which two people were the most likely suspects and that no one was surprised when they were arrested.

 

[Footwarrior]

Is there a law in Italy that says witnesses cannot be questioned at any particular time? If not, then I don't see a problem with whatever investigators did while investigating a vicious murder.

There's that funny faulty memory again ... Knox can't remember anything that happened leading up to the murder of Meredith. We know that. She does remember Patrick murdering Meredith, but that's all.

Meredith's body was discovered at around 1:30 pm on Nov. 2. Amanda spent that night at the police station. She was allowed to leave around 5:30 the next morning. The next couple of days were similar, with questioning sessions lasting into the wee hours of the morning. Amanda was only getting a couple hours of sleep each night. When the questioning started on the night of Nov. 5th, Amanda was already in a sleep deprived state.

The goal of these long sessions wasn't to find the truth. It was to soften up the suspect. What followed was the same basic technique that extracted false confessions from the Norfolk 4.

 

[otto]

Meredith's body was discovered at around 1:30 pm on Nov. 2. Amanda spent that night at the police station. She was allowed to leave around 5:30 the next morning. The next couple of days were similar, with questioning sessions lasting into the wee hours of the morning. Amanda was only getting a couple hours of sleep each night. When the questioning started on the night of Nov. 5th, Amanda was already in a sleep deprived state.

The goal of these long sessions wasn't to find the truth. It was to soften up the suspect. What followed was the same basic technique that extracted false confessions from the Norfolk 4.

Raffaele was asked to arrive at the police station at 10 PM. Amanda tagged along. She should have gone to bed instead of going to the police station if she was tired.

 

[Footwarrior]

Raffaele was asked to arrive at the police station at 10 PM. Amanda tagged along. She should have gone to bed instead of going to the police station if she was tired.

Amanda was afraid to be alone and with good reason. Her roommate had been murdered in her own bedroom only a few nights before.

 

[otto]

Amanda was afraid to be alone and with good reason. Her roommate had been murdered in her own bedroom only a few nights before.

Couldn't she have attended Meredith's memorial and then stayed with one of their mutual friends? Not being able to stay at her own place is not a reason for her to go to the police station at 10 PM. If she was so tired from Meredith's murder investigation, she should have gone to a hotel and had a good night sleep.

 

[Footwarrior]

Couldn't she have attended Meredith's memorial and then stayed with one of their mutual friends? Not being able to stay at her own place is not a reason for her to go to the police station at 10 PM. If she was so tired from Meredith's murder investigation, she should have gone to a hotel and had a good night sleep.

Staying alone in a hotel room isn't going to help the fears of a young lady in a town with a murderer on the loose.

 

[otto]

Staying alone in a hotel room isn't going to help the fears of a young lady in a town with a murderer on the loose.

A woman from Seattle shouldn't be so afraid of everything that even a hotel seems like a dangerous place. If she was so tired, it makes sense that she should have found a place, somewhere in Italy, where she could rest. If not, then she should have gone to Germany to stay with relatives. I can't think of any reason for Amanda to go to the police station, voluntarily, at 10 PM if she was so tired from answering questions in relation to the murder of her roommate.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

There is Laura's testimony and the testimony of Amanda's teacher for us to use. Moreover, the interrogation started around 11 PM, which should raise questions in and of itself. The actual statements Amanda made can hardly be called confessions (she did not say that she murdered Meredith). Moreover, they honestly don't make any sense to me. That, too, should raise questions.

As to the 11 pm interview: the police did NOT bring Amanda down to the police station at that time of night to talk them -- Amanda was ALREADY THERE ...

Raf went to the police station earlier that evening because the police wanted to talk to him again, and Amanda accompanied Raf ...

Raf was brought in because his phone records did NOT match the "story" he had told LE previously ... AND -- it was RAF himself who told police that he told them "rubbish" in his earlier statement and that he didn't realize the "inconsistencies" that he and Amanda had talked about ...

Which then led to LE questioning Amanda ...

:waitasec: Just had a thought : what time of day or night does it matter when you are questioned by the police, especially when your roommate was just murdered ? Someone who would want to HELP LE would NOT care what time of day or night it was ... you would do whatever...

JMO ... :moo:

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Couldn't she have attended Meredith's memorial and then stayed with one of their mutual friends? Not being able to stay at her own place is not a reason for her to go to the police station at 10 PM. If she was so tired from Meredith's murder investigation, she should have gone to a hotel and had a good night sleep.

:seeya: Hello,

I am so glad you brought up Meredith's Memorial because Amanda did NOT even show up ... which speaks volumes, IMO ...

:waitasec: Oh, as to the "mutual friends" ... Amanda would not have been able to stay with the "mutual friends" because they did NOT want her around ...

I can't remember which one said it, but one of the "friends" said she was absolutely appalled by Amanda's statement at the police station about how Meredith died when Amanda stated that Meredith "####ing bled to death" ... the friends knew from day one !

:waitasec: One more thing : NONE of the roommates or "friends" came to Amanda's "defense" or testified on her behalf ... telling IMO ...

:moo:

 

[Footwarrior]

A woman from Seattle shouldn't be so afraid of everything that even a hotel seems like a dangerous place. If she was so tired, it makes sense that she should have found a place, somewhere in Italy, where she could rest. If not, then she should have gone to Germany to stay with relatives. I can't think of any reason for Amanda to go to the police station, voluntarily, at 10 PM if she was so tired from answering questions in relation to the murder of her roommate.

It wound't have mattered, Amanda wouldn't have gotten any sleep that night. If she hadn't shown up on her own, the police would have. Investigator Giobbi testified in court on May 29, 2009 that he had ordered both Amanda and Raffaele to be brought in on the night of Nov. 5.

 

[Footwarrior]

:seeya: Hello,

I am so glad you brought up Meredith's Memorial because Amanda did NOT even show up ... which speaks volumes, IMO ...

Actually there is no evidence that Meredith's other flatmates attended the public memorial. In real life, not everyone feels up to such things just a few days after a tragedy.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Is there a law in Italy that says witnesses cannot be questioned at any particular time? If not, then I don't see a problem with whatever investigators did while investigating a vicious murder.

There's that funny faulty memory again ... Knox can't remember anything that happened leading up to the murder of Meredith. We know that. She does remember Patrick murdering Meredith, but that's all.

The police threatened Amanda with prison time and cuffed her. The "translator" suggested that Amanda was repressing the memory of what actually happened. The blame for why Amanda's statements on that night make no sense lies squarely with the investigators. Amanda recovered her memory of what happened by the time that she wrote the second memoriale of 7 November and the letter to her lawyer, perhaps a day or two later.

The Norfolk Four were navy guys, yet they gave false confessions. One man who gave a false confession was intelligent and motivated enough to get into law school later an become a lawyer. I would not ever underestimate what level of intimidation some interrogators can achieve. In the case of PM Mignini, we have Doug Preston's viewpoint, among others that we can use to base an opinion of his tactics.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

That suggests to me that everyone knew which two people were the most likely suspects and that no one was surprised when they were arrested.

Then they should have automatically have been given lawyers. Thanks for acknowledging that the police were playing games with a very sensible law.

 

[SweetT]

You obviously have not read "Honor Bound." Pages 17-22 detail their night together. Elsewhere, he goes on to point out that she could not have left that night because she did not have a key, and he would have had to let her back in. Maybe you should rethink some of your other points now.
EDT
I see that Malkmus beat me to it.

Didnt her boyfriend have several yrs to concoct what ever story he wanted to for this book? Didnt he actually not recall what they did that night? Thats what I recall anyway. I highly doubt he would incriminate himself when the whole issue is possibly going to be appealed. In fact if I were him and wrote a book ..it would solidify my innocence and my girl friend who I was in jail with, whether I was or not. JMO

 

[MichaelSmith]

:seeya: Hello,

I am so glad you brought up Meredith's Memorial because Amanda did NOT even show up ... which speaks volumes, IMO ...

:waitasec: Oh, as to the "mutual friends" ... Amanda would not have been able to stay with the "mutual friends" because they did NOT want her around ...

I can't remember which one said it, but one of the "friends" said she was absolutely appalled by Amanda's statement at the police station about how Meredith died when Amanda stated that Meredith "####ing bled to death" ... the friends knew from day one !

:waitasec: One more thing : NONE of the roommates or "friends" came to Amanda's "defense" or testified on her behalf ... telling IMO ...

:moo:

Talk about double standards and raising the bar. Meredith's friends didn't attend the memorial either. Monique Riverland admitted in her recent article that she didn't know it was being held and stumbled upon it by accident and didn't bother to stick around. Wow, some friend by your standards.

You've raised the bar so high over Amanda not attending the memorial, you'd think they were lovers, sisters, cousins or life long friends when infact they were just housemates of six weeks who were friendly.

Asides from none of the British friends attending and one leaving soon as she saw it, a few of the girls left Perugia within days instead of waiting for the Kercher's to arrive. And speaking of the Kercher's, John Jnr and Lyle didn't go to Perugia after their sister had been murdered to support their parents. Only Stephanie went.

How does Merediths siblings not flying to Perugia sit with you? What about some of Meredith's friends heading back to England before the family of their murdered friend arrived? What about Sophie Purton naming an innocent man of murder according to Follain? Sure she didn't sign a statement, but she still told the police Hicham might be the killer.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Didnt her boyfriend have several yrs to concoct what ever story he wanted to for this book? Didnt he actually not recall what they did that night? Thats what I recall anyway. I highly doubt he would incriminate himself when the whole issue is possibly going to be appealed. In fact if I were him and wrote a book ..it would solidify my innocence and my girl friend who I was in jail with, whether I was or not. JMO

He backed up Amanda in front of Judge Matteini on 8 November 2007 (both Darkness Descending and Murder in Italy indicate this), but he did not recall some details correctly, such as the time of his father's call, and the time at which Amanda and he were in town versus at has flat (p. 78, Honor Bound). According to Murder in Italy he did recall the broken pipe, among other things. On the night of 5 November he was not allowed to look at a calendar to help him remember which night Amanda went to work. This says as much or more about the nature of the interrogation as it does his memory IMO.

He is very hard on himself for speaking in front of Judge Matteini on this date. However, I don't think that the outcome of this hearing would have been any different if he had stayed quiet, which would have been legally a better option for him at that point.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Talk about double standards and raising the bar. Meredith's friends didn't attend the memorial either. Monique Riverland admitted in her recent article that she didn't know it was being held and stumbled upon it by accident and didn't bother to stick around. Wow, some friend by your standards.

You've raised the bar so high over Amanda not attending the memorial, you'd think they were lovers, sisters, cousins or life long friends when infact they were just housemates of six weeks who were friendly.

Asides from none of the British friends attending and one leaving soon as she saw it, a few of the girls left Perugia within days instead of waiting for the Kercher's to arrive. And speaking of the Kercher's, John Jnr and Lyle didn't go to Perugia after their sister had been murdered to support their parents. Only Stephanie went.

How does Merediths siblings not flying to Perugia sit with you? What about some of Meredith's friends heading back to England before the family of their murdered friend arrived? What about Sophie Purton naming an innocent man of murder according to Follain? Sure she didn't sign a statement, but she still told the police Hicham might be the killer.

Respectfully, I do not see a "double standard" at all with regards to the Memorial ...

Many people attend Memorials who do NOT even know the VICTIM !

And many examples of this and community support for VICTIMS can be found right here at WS ! Just take a look at the wonderful and generous work by WS, Tricia, and the members here who help the families and friends of VICTIMS all the time !

It is very comforting to know that there are still many caring people in this world !

I do not recall exactly WHICH friends/roommates left Perugia after Meredith's murder ... but no doubt if anyone left, they were "scared for their lives" by what had just happened ...

As to Meredith's brothers who didn't go to Perugia, there are a couple of reasons why they probably did not go : One is money -- its expensive for a family of 5 to pick up and fly, and get hotel rooms, etc. ... And two, the brothers probably stayed home to be there for the Meredith's friends, family and community in England who were DEVASTATED by Meredith's murder !

And Meredith's brothers should be COMMENDED for doing this ! I am sure it was extremely difficult for them to not be in Perugia, but logistically speaking, it makes a lot of sense ...

:moo::moo::moo:

 

[Frankie Hellis]

Respectfully, I do not see a "double standard" at all with regards to the Memorial ...

Many people attend Memorials who do NOT even know the VICTIM !

And many examples of this and community support for VICTIMS can be found right here at WS ! Just take a look at the wonderful and generous work by WS, Tricia, and the members here who help the families and friends of VICTIMS all the time !

It is very comforting to know that there are still many caring people in this world !

I do not recall exactly WHICH friends/roommates left Perugia after Meredith's murder ... but no doubt if anyone left, they were "scared for their lives" by what had just happened ...

As to Meredith's brothers who didn't go to Perugia, there are a couple of reasons why they probably did not go : One is money -- its expensive for a family of 5 to pick up and fly, and get hotel rooms, etc. ... And two, the brothers probably stayed home to be there for the Meredith's friends, family and community in England who were DEVASTATED by Meredith's murder !

And Meredith's brothers should be COMMENDED for doing this ! I am sure it was extremely difficult for them to not be in Perugia, but logistically speaking, it makes a lot of sense ...

:moo::moo::moo:

Wait a minute... didn't you just write that "it speaks volumes" that Amanda did not go to the memorial? And then when it is stated that some the victim's friends didn't go (or left right away) it is not a big deal.

THAT is a double standard.

Just sayin'

-FH