Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#10

[aa9511]

Did - hope you and all did as well

Yes, we did, thank you SMK

Now I only have to lose the 10 or so pounds I've gained this holiday season :scared:

 

[aa9511]

That's because you don't have a knife pointed at your throat.

I think that response answers all of your other queries too.

Respectfully, no it doesn't.

If she didn't turn and run first thing she saw him on the toilet, he would have jumped up and held the knife at her throat. Why order her to go to her own room? So he's holding the knife at her throat, he says, 'walk to your room'? Why? What difference did it make to him?

Also, that scenario requires that she does not move upon seeing him, and he jumps off the toilet immediately and pulls knife out on her.

What if she had seen him, or seen some guy on the toilet, turned and ran? Rudy runs after her. She tries to run away, she grabs whatever she can and throws it at him. He is not close enough to her at that point to threaten her at knife-point and make her comply. She would have first tried to run away. There would have been signs of this all over had this happened.

It is not that simple, in my opinion. MOO.

 

[SMK]

Hendry's analysis has Guede on the toilet (after having broken into an empty cottage) and hearing Meredith return home. He then goes to ambush her in her bedroom (with the knife - a sudden crime of opportunity . Also in this scenario Guede is forced to confront Meredith, as he tried to leave quietly by the front door, and found it locked by her (from the inside, and she has the keys). Of course this is a very compelling analysis, if one believes the lone wolf theory (and Hendry makes it the more believable). When I initially began to suspect the involvement of Knox and Sollecito in a clean up or staging, I kept Hendry intact, expect to add that Guede was there with Knox's pre-approval.

Guede himself says he is on the toilet when he hears MK scream. Some people believe she actually screamed when she saw him on the toilet (this fits in with his own remarks about jumping up and not pulling his pants up - he may have done just that, fearing to lose even a second for Meredith to dial 112).

We don't know if he used the toilet first, last, or (if not alone) sometime in between. Obviously, if he operated as a lone wolf. it would have to be first or last - it is doubtful that he would leave a victim to use the bathroom.

I guess in the days before dna, no one would be certain that it was Guede who used the toilet and didn't flush.

 

[aa9511]

Hendry's analysis has Guede on the toilet (after having broken into an empty cottage) and hearing Meredith return home. He then goes to ambush her in her bedroom (with the knife - a sudden crime of opportunity . Also in this scenario Guede is forced to confront Meredith, as he tried to leave quietly by the front door, and found it locked by her (from the inside, and she has the keys). Of course this is a very compelling analysis, if one believes the lone wolf theory (and Hendry makes it the more believable). When I initially began to suspect the involvement of Knox and Sollecito in a clean up or staging, I kept Hendry intact, expect to add that Guede was there with Knox's pre-approval.

Guede himself says he is on the toilet when he hears MK scream. Some people believe she actually screamed when she saw him on the toilet (this fits in with his own remarks about jumping up and not pulling his pants up - he may have done just that, fearing to lose even a second for Meredith to dial 112).

We don't know if he used the toilet first, last, or (if not alone) sometime in between. Obviously, if he operated as a lone wolf. it would have to be first or last - it is doubtful that he would leave a victim to use the bathroom.

I guess in the days before dna, no one would be certain that it was Guede who used the toilet and didn't flush.

bbm

But all of that is negated if Meredith noticed someone using the bathroom when she first came into the house, and checked on it.

House layout from : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8394110.stm

Yes, it is possible that she just walked in the front door and walked straight to her room. But it's also possible that she would have seen the light on in the large bathroom and would have checked it out, knowing neither Laura nor Filomena were expected home at the time. Also, if the rest of the house was dark, the light on in the large bathroom would have been noticeable.

Also, if the light was on in Filomena's room, or even if it wasn't, she would have noticed the broken window, IMO. Before she went to her bedroom.

There are just too many other scnenarios that would have all had to have, by chance, not occured, for the Hendry scenario to be possible, contained to Meredith's bedroom.

 

[SMK]

bbm

But all of that is negated if Meredith noticed someone using the bathroom when she first came into the house, and checked on it.

Yes, it does. As it was dark, she may have seen a light on (Rudy himself places these words in Meredith's mouth: "Anybody home?").

 

[SMK]

Correction: I had said in my post above, the it is a good thing dna determined that the feces belonged to Guede. I guess it was only the toilet paper which showed his dna:

So we know he used the toilet paper , but not that the feces were his (only kidding!!)

The Massei-Cristiani Report
[Rudy Guede Hermann, pp. 27-44]

Further biological traces pointing to Rudy Guede were found in the toilet paper recovered in the toilet of the larger bathroom. The feces present in the toilet did not however yield any result; Dr. Stefanoni, biologist of the Scientific Police, explained that the presence of numerous bacteria easly leads to the destruction [note: original says "presence destroys"; what is meant is "bacteria destroys"] of the DNA that could have been present in the feces.

http://masseireport.wordpress.com/contents/rudy-hermann-guede/

 

[aa9511]

Correction: I had said in my post above, the it is a good thing dna determined that the feces belonged to Guede. I guess it was only the toilet paper which showed his dna:

So we know he used the toilet paper , but not that the feces were his (only kidding!!)

The Massei-Cristiani Report
[Rudy Guede Hermann, pp. 27-44]
http://masseireport.wordpress.com/contents/rudy-hermann-guede/

Thanks, you are always so thorough!

 

[SMK]

Thanks, you are always so thorough!

Most welcome

 

[SMK]

Was just looking at PMF forum and the question had come up, why (assuming guilt/cleanup) had Knox not gotten rid of evidence in small bath. Someone pointed out that the bathmat had to have been intentionally left; no way she could have overlooked that. If it is supposed to be Sollectio's print, and not Guede's, how would this make sense? Didn't we cover this here? (Cannot recall which thread or what the conclusion was now....will try and search; I know I had wondered about it and now cannot recall gist of what we concluded. )

 

[SMK]

bbm

But all of that is negated if Meredith noticed someone using the bathroom when she first came into the house, and checked on it.

House layout from : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8394110.stm

Yes, it is possible that she just walked in the front door and walked straight to her room. But it's also possible that she would have seen the light on in the large bathroom and would have checked it out, knowing neither Laura nor Filomena were expected home at the time. Also, if the rest of the house was dark, the light on in the large bathroom would have been noticeable.

Also, if the light was on in Filomena's room, or even if it wasn't, she would have noticed the broken window, IMO. Before she went to her bedroom.

There are just too many other scnenarios that would have all had to have, by chance, not occured, for the Hendry scenario to be possible, contained to Meredith's bedroom.

thanks for the thumbnail. From the living room area she could have seen if the bathroom light was on and door open.

 

[aa9511]

Was just looking at PMF forum and the question had come up, why (assuming guilt/cleanup) had Knox not gotten rid of evidence in small bath. Someone pointed out that the bathmat had to have been intentionally left; no way she could have overlooked that. If it is supposed to be Sollectio's print, and not Guede's, how would this make sense? Didn't we cover this here? (Cannot recall which thread or what the conclusion was now....will try and search )

Yes, I think it was last thread (#9). It was sometime recently.

Of course, there was no agreed-upon conclusion.

I think my own theory was that Amanda never thought in a million years that the police would ask for Raffaele's footprint, to match the footprint with.

That they would just assume, that this footprint must be the burglar's footprint.

That she left it there because it supported her "burglar" being in the house.

It was a male footprint; she thought it would actually bolster her burglar story. She did not think they would ever check it against Raffaele's footprint.

 

[aa9511]

thanks for the thumbnail. From the living room area she could have seen if the bathroom light was on and door open.

Yes, I think so. It could very well be that she was just kind of in a "zone" and walked straight to her room, not noticing anything. But in that case, she would have had to miss the large bathroom signs, and the broken window in Filomena's room.

But I'm not saying that it is not possible that she didn't notice.

However, in a small space like that, I would think those two major things, she would have noticed one of them at least.

 

[SMK]

Yes, I think it was last thread (#9). It was sometime recently.

Of course, there was no agreed-upon conclusion.

I think my own theory was that Amanda never thought in a million years that the police would ask for Raffaele's footprint, to match the footprint with.

That they would just assume, that this footprint must be the burglar's footprint.

That she left it there because it supported her "burglar" being in the house.

It was a male footprint; she thought it would actually bolster her burglar story. She did not think they would ever check it against Raffaele's footprint.

Ah, now I recall. Thanks--- my memory is coming back now:blushing:

You raise a very interesting point: I am the type of person who is so paranoid, I would always feel I might be suspected, even if I had no involvement at all ( and especially if I had been involved). But not everyone is like me.

You're correct: And there may have even been a bit of the "black man found, black man guilty" in there as well. If guilty, they knew they had Guede feces and other dna in bedroom. They may well have thought that white college kids, one of them the son of a wealthy urologist, would not be suspected.

 

[DerKritiker2011]

If guilty, they knew they had Guede feces and other dna in bedroom. They may well have thought that white college kids, one of them the son of a wealthy urologist, would not be suspected.

But why Amanda accused Lumumba instead of Guede?

 

[SMK]

But why Amanda accused Lumumba instead of Guede?

That's a good question.

I don't really have the answer which would apply to the guilty purview. Maybe someone else does.

Prosecutor Crini says it was to sidetrack the investigation, but if so, she should surely have known he could have an alibi.(In fact, a Swiss professor traveled all the way back from Zurich to Perugia to give Lumumba and alibi).

And it really implicated her: she was arrested right along with him. It was the wrong "black man found". And it placed Knox at the scene.

 

[TorisMom003]

I think that the following is the best floorplan I have seen for the cottage. Although the washer/dryer is located in the wrong spot. It shows that there really is no way to see into the larger bathroom toilet area from the living room/kitchen area. Even if the light was on there is no way to know for sure that Meredith would go into the bathroom to see who it was.

Thanks to SMK for telling me how to do the thumbnails!

 

[SMK]

Another question I always had about Amanda's accusation of Patrick: If she (as she said) met PL at the basketball courts and then they went to see MK at the cottage, what was supposed to be the cause of the broken window and tossed clothes in Filomena's room?:waitasec:

 

[SMK]

I think that the following is the best floorplan I have seen for the cottage. Although the washer/dryer is located in the wrong spot. It shows that there really is no way to see into the larger bathroom toilet area from the living room/kitchen area. Even if the light was on there is no way to know for sure that Meredith would go into the bathroom to see who it was.

Thanks to SMK for telling me how to do the thumbnails!

Great diagram - uploaded like a pro :clap:

 

[aa9511]

But why Amanda accused Lumumba instead of Guede?

Because with Lumumba, who did not know anything, no chance of Amanda getting caught.

 

[DerKritiker2011]

Because with Lumumba, who did not know anything, no chance of Amanda getting caught.

Which is a contradiction. According to the above scenario, Amanda should have known Guedes DNA evidence.