Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#10

[Amber29]

Judge Micheli on page 101 of his report http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/2008-10-28_Itl.pdf wrote:




Meaning: Without the occurrence of additional charges that may result in the daytime isolation, (guess whom Guede has to thank for that?) the penalty must be life (ergastolo) due to the aggravating circumstances. The "life" sentence is replaced by a "30 years" sentence because of the abbreviated procedure aka fast-track-trial.

Take a closer look at Art. 442 c.p.p. No. 2 describes Guede's sentence...




And from the Borsini-Belardi-translation http://borsinibellardi.wordpress.com/contents/reasons-for-the-decision/



Guede got his reduction on appeal because he blamed Amanda and Raffaele...

RG appealed his 30year sentence. The judge took into account mitigating factors and lowered it to 24years and then took the 1/3 reduction off resulting in 16years.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/dec/22/rudy-guede-sentence-kercher-murder

"The appeal court had reduced Guede's sentence to 24 years and cut one-third off as is custom when defendants opt for a fast-track trial, said Francesco Maresca, a lawyer representing Kercher's family, who argued for the original sentence to be left unchanged.

"Twenty-four years would be in line with the sentences given to Knox and Sollecito," he said. "They each got an extra year for simulating a burglary at the scene and Knox got a further year for falsely blaming a local barman for the murder."

Period. He did not get his sentence reduced for testimony against AK/RS. If so please point me to his testimony. Not the Hellmann level testimony where he was only brought in to refute Alessi's testimony.

If you ask me murderers don't do near enough time in Italy. Their system is very pro defendant and rehabilitation, too much so IMO.

 

[MichaelSmith]

RG appealed his 30year sentence. The judge took into account mitigating factors and lowered it to 24years and then took the 1/3 reduction off resulting in 16years.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/dec/22/rudy-guede-sentence-kercher-murder

"The appeal court had reduced Guede's sentence to 24 years and cut one-third off as is custom when defendants opt for a fast-track trial, said Francesco Maresca, a lawyer representing Kercher's family, who argued for the original sentence to be left unchanged.

"Twenty-four years would be in line with the sentences given to Knox and Sollecito," he said. "They each got an extra year for simulating a burglary at the scene and Knox got a further year for falsely blaming a local barman for the murder."

Period. He did not get his sentence reduced for testimony against AK/RS. If so please point me to his testimony. Not the Hellmann level testimony where he was only brought in to refute Alessi's testimony.

If you ask me murderers don't do near enough time in Italy. Their system is very pro defendant and rehabilitation, too much so IMO.

Could we stick to using the court documents and penal code NOT snips from newspaper articles quoting Maresca of all people?

Guede accused Amanda & Raffaele via the letter he couldn't read or understand at the appeal. No one has a plausible reason for why he shouldn't have been charged with theft or why Mignini didn't appeal his sentence reduction. A theft charge would have meant he couldn't get the sentence reduction. He got a deal.

 

[Amber29]

Could we stick to using the court documents and penal code NOT snips from newspaper articles quoting Maresca of all people?

Guede accused Amanda & Raffaele via the letter he couldn't read or understand at the appeal. For that, he's going free in a couple of weeks. No one has a plausible reason for why he shouldn't have been charged with theft or why Mignini didn't appeal his sentence reduction. A theft charge wouldn't meant he couldn't get the sentence reduction. He got a deal.

Ok RGs sentence was reduced in dec 2009, so what evidence did RG provide for the Massei conviction against AK/RS? Please show me his testimony that rewarded him a "deal"

His testimony in the Hellmann court had nothing to so with his sentence reduction.

RGs sentence was reduced to be in line with his co defendants. It's that simple

I answered your theft question already.

 

[MichaelSmith]

Ok RGs sentence was reduced in dec 2009, so what evidence did RG provide for the Massei conviction against AK/RS? Please show me his testimony that rewarded him a "deal"

His testimony in the Hellmann court had nothing to so with his sentence reduction.

RGs sentence was reduced to be in line with his co defendants. It's that simple

I answered your theft question already.

He accused them at his own trial and then again at the last appeal. That's evidence of doing a favour for the prosecution.

 

[MichaelSmith]

AS GUEDE’S APPEALS JURY was deliberating on December 22, Valter Biscotti made his usual passeggiata, looking for reporters, but many of the foreign press had left town after the Knox verdict. He eventually ducked into the Sandri sandwich shop and saw me. He ordered his lunch and brought it to my table to predict exactly what was going to happen next and explain how he planned to defend Rudy in the third and final stage of his appeal, to the high court.

“This time, they will not absolve him,” he said between bites of polenta. “Rudy has promised to cooperate even more with the investigators, so they will cut his sentence first down to twenty-four years and then by one-third.” (A fast-track defendant automatically gets a one-third sentence reduction on appeal.) “So he’s going to admit they all killed her together?” I asked. “Rudy didn’t kill her, as I’ve told you many times,” he said. “Rudy is going to tell them what Amanda said to them both that night.” “She told them to kill Meredith?”

“Directed Raffaele,” he said. “She orchestrated it all.” “And he did whatever she said in exchange for what?” “Sex,” he said. “Promises and enticements. Raffaele is weak.” “And Rudy?” “Rudy was in the bathroom; he came out and it was all over,” he said, repeating Rudy’s usual line. “Rudy has never changed his story.” Biscotti paid for my lunch, and then, a couple hours later, his prediction came true. Rudy’s sentence was cut to sixteen years.

Nadeau, Barbie Latza (2010-03-05). Angel Face: Sex, Murder and the Inside Story of Amanda Knox (p. 118). Beast Books. Kindle Edition.

 

[redheadedgal]

Ok RGs sentence was reduced in dec 2009, so what evidence did RG provide for the Massei conviction against AK/RS? Please show me his testimony that rewarded him a "deal"

"deals" are often made in private... i doubt any official testimony or paperwork exists...

Could you please show me where it was stated that Knox came home every day to shower? I can't find it.

i know i read it when searching out what was said about the washing machine, or the hickey, or who chose their bedrm first etc... i will try to locate it again, but with the holidays starting tmrrw and needing to search out a dr. to examine a likely infected surgical incision, it might be a few days before i am able to. i am wondering though if i'm attributing to official testimony what i might've read in either burleigh's or dempsey's books... i don't have them anymore though to check... i know i saw something to this effect SOMEWHERE :tantrum:

 

[Amber29]

AS GUEDE’S APPEALS JURY was deliberating on December 22, Valter Biscotti made his usual passeggiata, looking for reporters, but many of the foreign press had left town after the Knox verdict. He eventually ducked into the Sandri sandwich shop and saw me. He ordered his lunch and brought it to my table to predict exactly what was going to happen next and explain how he planned to defend Rudy in the third and final stage of his appeal, to the high court.

“This time, they will not absolve him,” he said between bites of polenta. “Rudy has promised to cooperate even more with the investigators, so they will cut his sentence first down to twenty-four years and then by one-third.” (A fast-track defendant automatically gets a one-third sentence reduction on appeal.) “So he’s going to admit they all killed her together?” I asked. “Rudy didn’t kill her, as I’ve told you many times,” he said. “Rudy is going to tell them what Amanda said to them both that night.” “She told them to kill Meredith?”

“Directed Raffaele,” he said. “She orchestrated it all.” “And he did whatever she said in exchange for what?” “Sex,” he said. “Promises and enticements. Raffaele is weak.” “And Rudy?” “Rudy was in the bathroom; he came out and it was all over,” he said, repeating Rudy’s usual line. “Rudy has never changed his story.” Biscotti paid for my lunch, and then, a couple hours later, his prediction came true. Rudy’s sentence was cut to sixteen years.

Nadeau, Barbie Latza (2010-03-05). Angel Face: Sex, Murder and the Inside Story of Amanda Knox (p. 118). Beast Books. Kindle Edition.

Wow any other time BN is called all sorts of bad names. Now she's credible? Lets quote more from her book then.

 

[Amber29]

"deals" are often made in private... i doubt any official testimony or paperwork exists...




i know i read it when searching out what was said about the washing machine, or the hickey, or who chose their bedrm first etc... i will try to locate it again, but with the holidays starting tmrrw and needing to search out a dr. to examine a likely infected surgical incision, it might be a few days before i am able to. i am wondering though if i'm attributing to official testimony what i might've read in either burleigh's or dempsey's books... i don't have them anymore though to check... i know i saw something to this effect SOMEWHERE :tantrum:

Then what from RG was used against AK and RS in the Massei court?

 

[MichaelSmith]

Wow any other time BN is called all sorts of bad names. Now she's credible? Lets quote more from her book then.

I loathe quoting the hack

 

[SMK]

"deals" are often made in private... i doubt any official testimony or paperwork exists...




i know i read it when searching out what was said about the washing machine, or the hickey, or who chose their bedrm first etc... i will try to locate it again, but with the holidays starting tmrrw and needing to search out a dr. to examine a likely infected surgical incision, it might be a few days before i am able to. i am wondering though if i'm attributing to official testimony what i might've read in either burleigh's or dempsey's books... i don't have them anymore though to check... i know i saw something to this effect SOMEWHERE :tantrum:

Dempsey says in her text that Amanda had the American habit of daily showers and hatred of cramped and leaky stalls so "as usual" returned to the cottage for her shower (Google books doesn't # pages; it is in the Reconstruction of events of Nov 1-2 section).

 

[redheadedgal]

Wow any other time BN is called all sorts of bad names. Now she's credible? Lets quote more from her book then.

you've quoted her before as proof of something though... but yes, she has written numerous errors so...

Dempsey says in her text that Amanda had the American habit of daily showers and hatred of cramped and leaky stalls so "as usual" returned to the cottage for her shower (Google books doesn't # pages; it is in the Reconstruction of events of Nov 1-2 section).

THANK YOU!! :loveyou:

yes, amanda hated the cramped and leaky stall that raffaele had at his place so she went home: 2nd result if you type "shower" into the search box

i know one of the roommates said something about this, but instead of translating all of FR and LM testimony (again), i checked google books. i found the passage you mentioned, SMK, and then i found this -- the 4th result if you type in "amanda slept at raffaele" in the search box:

Amanda slept with him that night, and every night after that, Raffaele later said in his diary. In fact, they were all but inseparable. The American girl, did, however, return to the cottage each morning to shower, change clothes, and catch up with her roommates.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...#v=onepage&q=amanda slept at raffaele&f=false


and voila! from burleigh -- the 9th result if you type in "filomena" in the search box:

After she hooked up with Raffaele, Amanda never slept another night at the via della Pergola cottage. "You could tell she wasn't at home, and then she came back in the morning. I would see her at one in the afternoon", Filomena told police.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=filomena&f=false

 

[SMK]

you've quoted her before as proof of something though... but yes, she has written numerous errors so...




THANK YOU!! :loveyou:

yes, amanda hated the cramped and leaky stall that raffaele had at his place so she went home: 2nd result if you type "shower" into the search box

i know one of the roommates said something about this, but instead of translating all of FR and LM testimony (again), i checked google books. i found the passage you mentioned, SMK, and then i found this -- the 4th result if you type in "amanda slept at raffaele" in the search box:



http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...#v=onepage&q=amanda slept at raffaele&f=false


and voila! from burleigh -- the 9th result if you type in "filomena" in the search box:



http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=filomena&f=false

most welcome Google books is always great for finding something you know you read in one of the books, but you can't recall where.

 

[Tugela]

you've quoted her before as proof of something though... but yes, she has written numerous errors so...




THANK YOU!! :loveyou:

yes, amanda hated the cramped and leaky stall that raffaele had at his place so she went home: 2nd result if you type "shower" into the search box

i know one of the roommates said something about this, but instead of translating all of FR and LM testimony (again), i checked google books. i found the passage you mentioned, SMK, and then i found this -- the 4th result if you type in "amanda slept at raffaele" in the search box:



http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...#v=onepage&q=amanda slept at raffaele&f=false


and voila! from burleigh -- the 9th result if you type in "filomena" in the search box:



http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=filomena&f=false

Interesting. If they were all aware that she usually spent the night away, chances are RG may have known that as well, since he spent time with the guys. If he also knew that everyone else in the house was going to be out of town that night, except for MK, then chances are he broke in specifically to wait for her to come home so he could assault her.

I think we have his motive then.

 

[MichaelSmith]

http://www.amandaknox.com/2013/12/04/crinis-closing-arguments/

Have a read of the translation of Crini's closing arguments and on page 8 he acknowledges Naruto was opened 9.26pm. He tries to say it crashed even though the end time was 9.40pm

Hellmann made a big mistake not allowing the computer evidence in at the last appeal imo. What was the problem allowing evidence to prove innocence and seal up the timeline some more?

Pro guilt folks really need to have a think about how an unflushed toilet triggered a murder sex orgy in 40 mins if as Crini says they could have been at the cottage by 9.30pm earliest and the phones had left the cottage by 10.13pm. Guede said it happened at 9.20pm

 

[aa9511]

Interesting. If they were all aware that she usually spent the night away, chances are RG may have known that as well, since he spent time with the guys. If he also knew that everyone else in the house was going to be out of town that night, except for MK, then chances are he broke in specifically to wait for her to come home so he could assault her.

I think we have his motive then.

Wow, that was fast jump from point A to point B. So if he broke in to wait for her to assault her, why didn't he stand by the front door, and attack her as soon as she came in? There is no sign of struggle anywhere other than Meredith's room.

 

[aa9511]

I hope everyone had a very Merry Christmas!!!!

 

[Cappuccino]

Interesting. If they were all aware that she usually spent the night away, chances are RG may have known that as well, since he spent time with the guys. If he also knew that everyone else in the house was going to be out of town that night, except for MK, then chances are he broke in specifically to wait for her to come home so he could assault her.

I think we have his motive then.

Wow, that was fast jump from point A to point B. So if he broke in to wait for her to assault her, why didn't he stand by the front door, and attack her as soon as she came in? There is no sign of struggle anywhere other than Meredith's room.

Because he was on the toilet having his now infamous number 2 at the time he heard Meredith come through the door.

I also hope everyone had a very merry Christmas.

 

[SMK]

I hope everyone had a very Merry Christmas!!!!

Did - hope you and all did as well

 

[aa9511]

Wow, that was fast jump from point A to point B. So if he broke in to wait for her to assault her, why didn't he stand by the front door, and attack her as soon as she came in? There is no sign of struggle anywhere other than Meredith's room.

Because he was on the toilet having his now infamous number 2 at the time he heard Meredith come through the door.

I also hope everyone had a very merry Christmas.

Thank you Cappuccino.

But wouldn't Meredith have seen him or seen that someone was using Laura/Filomena's bathroom when she walked in the door? The bathroom is in a very noticeable spot from the front door, I believe. The light would have been on because it was night. Meredith knew both Laura and Filomena were gone. Would she not have checked to see who was in the bathroom, if the door was closed? Or would she not have just seen someone was in there, if the door was open?

At that point, the struggle would have began by the bathroom. I do not see how it can be contained to only Meredith's room at that point. Also, walking past Filomena's room, she would have noticed the broken window. I doubt she would have walked all the way to her room and completely ignored the window.

"The struggle" would have been just that - a struggle. There would have been signs of something happening before getting to Meredith's room, since there would have been no clean-up/cover-up in that scenario. Also, why would he take her to her own room to sexually assault/murder her? What difference did it make to him? Why would he not have done it at whatever place he first had contact with her, whether that was living room, hallway, Filomena's room, wherever. Why was it only Meredith's room?

If she walked in on him while he was on the toilet, her first instinct would have been to run back out the front door. That would also have been the closest. Why would she run herself into a corner, literally? Her room would literally have boxed her in with Rudy.

It just doesn't make sense. I'm not saying you are right or wrong, I'm just trying to go over the scenarios in my mind, and the pieces of the puzzle just don't fit quite right.

 

[Cappuccino]

I do not see how it can be contained to only Meredith's room at that point

That's because you don't have a knife pointed at your throat.

I think that response answers all of your other queries too.