Yes, I believe in Massei it is told that the bra was cut with a small knife, definitely, in several places. And in many articles and posts it is stated that the bra was removed by cutting the back strap with a knife, among other places.
Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#10
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It's not correct to say the bra clasp never left the room. There's simply no police documentation for the ransacking of the scene that occurred before the December inspection. We simply don't know what was going on with the bra clasp during that time. We know it looked considerably dirtier.
Sampling for DNA was much more extensive inside the bedroom than anywhere else. That means that not detecting DNA inside the murder room is much more telling than not detecting DNA anywhere else in the villa.
For example no samples were taken from the outside surface or outside handle of bedroom door but it is reasonable that there was some Raffaele's DNA on it.
DNA transfer is stochastic. We simply have no data to know if the one detected transfer to the bra hook is plenty or rather not much given the circumstances. We don't know how many other transfer occurrences went undetected.
What is immediately obvious is the disparity between many Guede's traces in the murder room and the absolute, total lack of Amanda's traces and the single, solitary, contested and controversial trace of Raffaele. It requires some explanation. The prosecution can't give any. I haven't seen any here, either.
Myvice
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I think he cut it off because it wasn't tearing off, hence the bent clasp. I think he and Amanda ran into RG and invited him over to get high. And I think the murder occurred between 10pm and 11pm. JMO
I think it's more likely the hooks were bent by the same force that ripped the bra apart.
IMO it's simply not possible to touch only the hook and not the fabric unless this is exactly the intention, like in the police video we've seen.
Forcible action like this would have left DNA. In fact there is DNA on the side of the bra where Guede pulled to rip the bra. DNA on the hook and not on the clasp itself looks very very implausible. Until we watch the video showing the cops rubbing the hook and grabbing it with dirty gloves.
There was an analysis of this on IIP.
It's visible in the photos that the seams of the bra were undone by force. Both of the shoulder straps are ripped at the seams, not cut into parts, the close up of the clasp shows it's not cut, too. There would be another layer of cut fabric on it.
To add to the above, during Crini's summation/closing arguments (via Twitter via Google Chrome translate) :
Crini spoke about a second, knife (small and very sharp) that he believes was used in the cutting off of Kecher's bra (in several places) and that this is different to the bigger kitchen knife which left the outline print on the sheet.
Found an interesting fact, unknown to me before, which is a strike against the lone wolf theory:
* (unless it has been refuted: If anyone knows if it has, please direct me to the link. tia)
p 96 Translation: Supreme Court of Cassation of Italy Sentencing Report
"the objective fact that only after midnight did the victim's telephones stop connecting to the cell tower of via della Pergola and connect instead with the one on via Sperandio, where they were eventually found; this meant that only after midnight were they removed by unknown hands from the flat in via della Pergola."
If people believe the murder took place around 9:20 or so , by a lone wolf Guede, why would Guede not have immediately fled the scene and tossed the phones? Did he return to the scene? Or hang around until midnight?
* (unless it has been refuted: If anyone knows if it has, please direct me to the link. tia)
p 96 Translation: Supreme Court of Cassation of Italy Sentencing Report
"the objective fact that only after midnight did the victim's telephones stop connecting to the cell tower of via della Pergola and connect instead with the one on via Sperandio, where they were eventually found; this meant that only after midnight were they removed by unknown hands from the flat in via della Pergola."
If people believe the murder took place around 9:20 or so , by a lone wolf Guede, why would Guede not have immediately fled the scene and tossed the phones? Did he return to the scene? Or hang around until midnight?
Where were they then? And where is this said? thanks
in Massei there is a chapter on phone activity.
IMO at 22:13 the phones were with Guede. Either at his place already or somewhere in between. Raffaele's defence expert found the cell tower is most compatible with a town park located few minutes from the cottage in the direction of Lana's garden were the phones ended up. (It's in his appeal)
Another thing which I now find the American media was most definitely misleading on :
When in this current process of the appellate trial in Florence, the knife was retested and AK's dna was found on it (but not the victim's ) they claimed this as a victory for the defense--- I have no argument with that.
But they also claimed that the Supreme Court of Cassation had declared that this knife test was going to be the decisive and determining factor.
This is simply not true: On the contrary, the SCC says on pp 98-99 that the remanded Judge (Nincini) will have the task of evaluating everything (forensics, circumstantial, testimony, witnesses, statements, calumnia) and then and only then will such an evaluation - which integrates everything - show that the two defendants were at the crime scene, and rule out other scenarios.
When in this current process of the appellate trial in Florence, the knife was retested and AK's dna was found on it (but not the victim's ) they claimed this as a victory for the defense--- I have no argument with that.
But they also claimed that the Supreme Court of Cassation had declared that this knife test was going to be the decisive and determining factor.
This is simply not true: On the contrary, the SCC says on pp 98-99 that the remanded Judge (Nincini) will have the task of evaluating everything (forensics, circumstantial, testimony, witnesses, statements, calumnia) and then and only then will such an evaluation - which integrates everything - show that the two defendants were at the crime scene, and rule out other scenarios.
Myvice
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There is nothing to suggest to me that the clasp ever left the room. We don't know if there was more DNA on the bra that was rubbed off.
The small bathroom was tested extensively with no trace of RG despite the fact that some think he was in there scrubbing blood off his skin.
To me, you can't have it both ways...no DNA shows that RS and AK were not in the bedroom yet no DNA from RG shows that he was in the small bathroom.
Good find on the phones SMK. I'd thought I'd read that but couldn't remember where.
Right - this is true of the knife evidence, good point. And even more, the SCC says it is the totality and integration of all the data which counts, and not parts in isolation.
Surely we can assume there was a lot of Raffaele's and Amanda's DNA in the room that was "rubbed off", disappeared, went unnoticed, whatever. The problem is we need to find a plausible scenario, not just a scenario. All the other elements already make Amanda's and Raffaele's involvement implausible: the time of death, the lack of motive, the impossible kitchen knife story, Guede's background, etc.
If you absolutely need to postulate something very implausible to support what is already defying belief, where is the moment that you stop and think: maybe just maybe it doesn't make sense after all?
Who thinks he was scrubbing? Rinsing blood will not deposit one's DNA like a forceful struggle will.
To me it's absolutely clear that Guede deposited Meredith's DNA in the bathroom because the blood he was rinsing was Meredith's. Also, there were many more samples taken in the bedroom than in the bathroom.
There was no fight, no struggle, no murder, no ripping clothes apart in the bathroom.
The fact that two independent tests by two teams of experts couldn't confirm Stefanoni's strange result will be significant for the value of the kitchen knife as evidence.
The test performed by RIS was extremely sensitive, much more then Stefanoni's. They managed to divide the sample and test it yet found no Meredith's DNA.
OK - but the point I was making is that the SCC says that what will be decisive and what the remanded Judge must keep in mind is not the knife - nor anything else - it is the totality and integration of all the data involving this case.
The prosecution said that many calls made or received by Kercher's phone used this tower near Lana's garden.
Myvice
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I suppose I could also ask you the question of what would it take for you to change your POV. You find it implausible that RG would have left his DNA in the bathroom by washing in there. I would have to ask you what you think AK was doing that left her DNA there if it wasn't from washing.
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