Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#10

[Myvice]

since when does "possible" mean "unlikely"?

possible (MW online): able to be done

unlikely (MW online): improbable

OK, I just read back through my post at 352 and I guess I can see why it may be confusing, because I didn't express my thoughts very well. I'll try again to make my point. My apology.

Many of the people here think that RS's DNA was transferred to the bra clasp through contamination. While I think that is possible, in my mind , it isn't probable.

I was using chrishalkides comments to show that it may have been possible for Guede's DNA to be inside Merideth by transfer, although I don't find that probable.

I feel the same way about the DNA on the bra clasp. I think it's possible it was contaminated, I just don't find it probable.

Sorry for the confusion, I hope this is clearer.

Possible (MW online): Being within the limits ob ability, capacity or realization.

Probable (MW online): Supported by evidence strong enough to establish presumption but not proof.

MOO

 

[TorisMom003]

A poster on another forum (pro-innocent) had mentioned that Rudy placed Meredith's scream at around 9:20 pm, and had theorized that perhaps Rudy had been sitting on the toilet with the door open (thinking the place was empty) and when she came through the front door and stepped into the kitchen, she saw him and screamed.

This got me to thinking of other details:

Rudy had said that when he had met Meredith outside of the cottage for the date, she had taken out her keys, opened the door, and yelled, "Anybody home?".

• So this may have been heard by him from the toilet (he is sitting on the toilet with the door open, and hears her keys and hears her yell, "Anybody home?" and then she steps into the kitchen, sees him sitting on the toilet and screams.) He had also said in the Skype conversation that he jumped up and ran with his pants still down - so this he does running toward her as she runs to her room. The struggle ensues.
• The later scream heard by Nara and the arguing of a man and woman in Italian, could have been Amanda screaming when she found Meredith dead, and Raffaele yelling that she shouldn't be covering her with the duvet and locking the door- there will be signs of them there. Possibly. Just musing here and leaving this for later reference.......

The setup, floor plan, of the cottage prohibits anyone sitting on the toilet in the larger bathroom to be seen from the kitchen. There is no way that someone can stand in the kitchen and see into the toilet/shower area of that larger bathroom unless they can see through walls.

There is also no sign of a struggle or running through the narrow hall towards Meredith's room. Unless of course Guede took the time to later straighten the drying rack in the hallway.

MOO

 

[Myvice]

The setup, floor plan, of the cottage prohibits anyone sitting on the toilet in the larger bathroom to be seen from the kitchen. There is no way that someone can stand in the kitchen and see into the toilet/shower area of that larger bathroom unless they can see through walls.

There is also no sign of a struggle or running through the narrow hall towards Meredith's room. Unless of course Guede took the time to later straighten the drying rack in the hallway.

MOO

I agree with this and I also think if RG was running with his pants down MK would have run outside rather than being trapped in the house.

But the scenario with AK and RS finding her could be a possibility in my mind. JMO

 

[Katody]

Many of the people here think that RS's DNA was transferred to the bra clasp through contamination. While I think that is possible, in my mind , it isn't probable.

I find the alternative even more improbable. In fact I cannot think of any.

What exactly happened that caused the DNA to be found on the metal hook of the clasp, not on the fabric of the clasp (only Meredith's DNA there) and not on the fabric of the bra (only Guede's there). How do you leave DNA on a tiny metal hook, bend it with great force and leave no traces on the rest of the bra, no traces anywhere else in the room?

 

[SMK]

The setup, floor plan, of the cottage prohibits anyone sitting on the toilet in the larger bathroom to be seen from the kitchen. There is no way that someone can stand in the kitchen and see into the toilet/shower area of that larger bathroom unless they can see through walls.

There is also no sign of a struggle or running through the narrow hall towards Meredith's room. Unless of course Guede took the time to later straighten the drying rack in the hallway.

MOO

I had wondered about this positioning, but took the poster's word for it when they said a couple of steps into the kitchen allows full view of toilet area of the large bath. Guess they were wrong. Maybe they meant the living area?

 

[TorisMom003]

I don't understand how anyone can watch the following video and then decide that it is improbable that the bra clasp was contaminated.

[video=youtube;UMaTI0SiuLw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMaTI0SiuLw[/video]

 

[TorisMom003]

Can't get a picture to load correctly to show the floorplan of the cottage, however if you check out http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery5.html then you can see it.

 

[Myvice]

I find the alternative even more improbable. In fact I cannot think of any.

What exactly happened that caused the DNA to be found on the metal hook of the clasp, not on the fabric of the clasp (only Meredith's DNA there) and not on the fabric of the bra (only Guede's there). How do you leave DNA on a tiny metal hook, bend it with great force and leave no traces on the rest of the bra, no traces anywhere else in the room?

I think the bra hook was bent during the struggle and RS touched it when he cut it off.

While there is no evidence of RS's or AK's DNA in the bedroom other than the bra clasp, there is also no DNA of RG in the small bathroom where some presume he was scrubbing blood from his body.

 

[SMK]

I don't understand how anyone can watch the following video and then decide that it is improbable that the bra clasp was contaminated.

Amanda Knox-Botched Forensics - YouTube

I guess it's because the court and Prosecutor Crini said that there would be no instance of Sollecito's dna to be transferred. (Crini said in court on Nov 26: (via Google Translate) "There is no instance of transfer of Sollecito’s DNA anywhere on the scene." )

 

[Myvice]

I don't understand how anyone can watch the following video and then decide that it is improbable that the bra clasp was contaminated.

Amanda Knox-Botched Forensics - YouTube

The bra clasp never left the bedroom and RS's DNA was supposedly only found on the bra clasp and a cigarette butt that he and AK shared, from my knowledge. If that's not correct, please let me know.

In my mind, it's just improbable that his DNA got there in anyway other than direct contact. JMO

 

[SMK]

Can't get a picture to load correctly to show the floorplan of the cottage, however if you check out http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery5.html then you can see it.

Thanks for this.

 

[TorisMom003]

As far as I know the entire cottage was not tested for RS's DNA. Heck it appears that very little in the cottage was tested at all. Of course the prosecutor is going to say that one of his suspects, that he is trying for murder, did not have his DNA anywhere else in the cottage for transfer to have occurred. When one remembers back to all of the things that were shoved out into the hallway from each of the three bedrooms that shared the hallway, one can imagine how anyone that had a reason to be in the cottage could have their DNA on anything and everything from Meredith's room that had been left in the cottage for those 46 days.

MOO

 

[TorisMom003]

Ok ladies, I have a challenge for you. How many of you touch the metal hook of the bra clasp when putting on or removing your bra? I know that personally I never do. There is no need to do so. Now the material that the metal hook is attached to, yes of course. But the metal hook themselves? Nope, I don't.

 

[SMK]

Can't get a picture to load correctly to show the floorplan of the cottage, however if you check out http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery5.html then you can see it.

Thanks for this: I went back and checked and the original poster had said if Meredith had taken a few steps into the living area (not kitchen, my error) if Guede were on the toilet with door open and light on (thinking the place was empty) she might have seen him and screamed. I will go back and edit my post now.

 

[MichaelSmith]

I think the bra hook was bent during the struggle and RS touched it when he cut it off.

While there is no evidence of RS's or AK's DNA in the bedroom other than the bra clasp, there is also no DNA of RG in the small bathroom where some presume he was scrubbing blood from his body.

Why would he cut it off and what exactly was he doing with the virtual stranger Guede he didn't know and had just met doing this? What time do you think this happened?

 

[TorisMom003]

Thanks for this: I went back and checked and the original poster had said if Meredith had taken a few steps into the living area (not kitchen, my error) if Guede were on the toilet with door open and light on (thinking the place was empty) she might have seen him and screamed. I will go back and edit my post now.

Still not possible. Meredith would have to step past the fridge towards the bathroom in order to see into the toilet area. She could see the light if the door was open, as the light would flood out into the sink/washer and dryer area, but not see who was in there.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery3.html

Sorry mods for the large pics, I don't know how to do thumbnails of them.

 

[Myvice]

Ok ladies, I have a challenge for you. How many of you touch the metal hook of the bra clasp when putting on or removing your bra? I know that personally I never do. There is no need to do so. Now the material that the metal hook is attached to, yes of course. But the metal hook themselves? Nope, I don't.

Considering the clasp was bent, I think it's highly likely it would have been touched.

When I was dating, (OMG so many years ago, LOL) I remember guys trying to unhook my clasp quite often (until I cuffed them on the back of the head) and they weren't doing it the way I would have.

 

[SMK]

Still not possible. Meredith would have to step past the fridge towards the bathroom in order to see into the toilet area. She could see the light if the door was open, as the light would flood out into the sink/washer and dryer area, but not see who was in there.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery3.html

Sorry mods for the large pics, I don't know how to do thumbnails of them.

Thanks for this. Then the only way the theory would still hold, is if she screamed because he had come out of the bathroom and she saw him. (*To make thumbnails, go to Advanced settings; scroll down to Manage Attachments; put URL of pic in, and upload it, and it will be an attached thumbnail).

 

[Katody]

I think the bra hook was bent during the struggle and RS touched it when he cut it off.

Setting aside the fact that the bra was ripped, not cut, how does it work that he touched the metal hook and not the fabric?
The only way I can visualize is like in the video above, where the cops pass around the clasp by the hook, and someone even rubs the hook with a dirty glove. Oh, wait. Well.

But seriously, how do you cut the bra holding it only by a tiny metal hook?

 

[Myvice]

Setting aside the fact that the bra was ripped, not cut, how does it work that he touched the metal hook and not the fabric?
The only way I can visualize is like in the video above, where the cops pass around the clasp by the hook, and someone even rubs the hook with a dirty glove. Oh, wait. Well.

But seriously, how do you cut the bra holding it only by a tiny metal hook?

I visualize him pulling it from the back away from her skin, touching the clasp because it sticks out farther than the material, and cutting it. Do we leave DNA on everything we touch? If so, I'm surprised there isn't much more DNA. I don't know.

Everywhere I've read about this it says the clasp section was cut. I do believe I read that a strap or something was torn though. Do you have a translated link that says the clasp was torn?