Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#10

[SMK]

What you write is true of the US system, where a civil case is completely separate from a criminal case, and is usually conducted after the criminal case. This is an entirely different situation and US standards and routines do not apply.

OK, I bow to your far greater knowledge of things European.

 

[Allusonz]

Dr Stefanoni is Dr Stefanoni, whether people want to respect that designation or not. Difficulties understanding the designation relate to differences in US in Italian education systems.

Dr Mignini is also Dr Mignini.

It isn't possible to strip there professionals of their professional designations.

There is a reason one spends years attending medical school, etc. It is for the right to be able to put that prior to their name.

It must be earned to be valid.

 

[Katody]

.............

Don't worry

The Italian Supreme Court expressed preference for "osmotic" thinking instead of normal logic.

 

[otto]

OK, I bow to your far greater knowledge of things European.

Clearly it's an entirely different situation. In the US, a person is convicted and then there's a civil case to clean out the pockets. In the US, the lawyer probably works for free because the civil case is pretty much guaranteed to be successful.

What is happening in this trial is entirely different. My understanding is that the lawyer is hired and paid throughout the proceedings.

 

[Allusonz]

No. No, and no.

How about the 12 detectives that were brought in from Rome?

There were over 30 signatures to her cough "statement".

 

[Katody]

There is a reason one spends years attending medical school, etc. It is for the right to be able to put that prior to their name.

It must be earned to be valid.

I think, since we write in English, there is no place for the Italian honorific "Dr" here. It just means something entirely different.
If someone wants to treat Stafanoni extra politely, there's always possibility to write "Ms Stefanoni".

 

[otto]

There is a reason one spends years attending medical school, etc. It is for the right to be able to put that prior to their name.

It must be earned to be valid.

Using US standards to criticize standards in a foreign country is nothing new.

The psychology degree is an example of where things differ between countries. In the US, a psychologist must complete a phd to practice clinical psychology. In other countries, psychologists have completed the qualifications to practice clinical psychology after completing a master's degree.

No matter how hard one tries, it is not possible to strip Dr Stefanoni of her professional designation.

 

[Allusonz]

BBM> Quote is from Fisher's Ground Report article posted above:

http://groundreport.com/meredith-ke...-makes-false-accusations-against-amanda-knox/

Just wanted to say, that yes, what Maresca did seems unconscionable ; civil attorneys are notorious for these over-the-top moves, and for going after enormous monetary awards for their clients, of which they often take a third.

However, that said, it should be duly noted that :

1. Maresca did say he wanted to get across the idea that such injury could not have been inflicted by a single attacker.

2. Jurors in the Trayvon Martin case were also shown ghastly and graphic photos of the victim;

3. As was the court and public in the Jodia Arias case: The victim, Travis Alexander, was shown naked, dead, with slashes and caked blood on him.

4. In the William Clyde Gibson murder trial a graphic video of the murder victim was shown in court on the third day of the trial.

5. In the Drew Peterson trial, graphic photos of murder victim Kathleen Saivo were shown.

What Maresca did was not unprecedented and not without some motive other than monetary award.

The judge determines what will be shown in open court. It was decided that this information would be done in chambers, thus what Maresca did was unethical and makes me question how much he is in contact with the Kercher's.

 

[Katody]

How about the 12 detectives that were brought in from Rome?

There were over 30 signatures to her cough "statement".

I think the many signatures were on the arrest. Everyone wanted some slice of that huge victory. There was even a round of medals for everyone IIRC.

 

[Allusonz]

Using US standards to criticize standards in a foreign country is nothing new.

The psychology degree is an example of where things differ between countries. In the US, a psychologist must complete a phd to practice clinical psychology. In other countries, psychologists have completed the qualifications to practice clinical psychology after completing a master's degree.

No matter how hard one tries, it is not possible to strip Dr Stefanoni of her professional designation.

It is done worldwide. Can someone provide me with a cite with respect to the monies he has been paid? If not that is great. If so I would love to see how much he is charging the Kercher's as it could explain much.

It has nothing to do with whether you are in the USA or Italy....

 

[otto]

The judge determines what will be shown in open court. It was decided that this information would be done in chambers, thus what Maresca did was unethical and makes me question how much he is in contact with the Kercher's.

Anyone that attends a murder trial should expect that there wiill be crime scene photos. If people don't want to see the evidence, they shouldn't attend the trial. To attend the trial, knowing full well that evidence will be presented, and to then cry because the evidence was not pleasant ... who has sympathy for someone like that?

It's like going to church and hearing people singing, then complaining by claiming that there should be no reasonable expectation that there would be singing in a church.

 

[Karmady]

US standards cannot be used as a basis for making broad generalizations about what happens in Italy. To suggest that it is normal for Italian lawyers to work for six years and not be paid is absurd. That also requires a link.

Italian legal website discussing contingency fees and related changes in Italian law in 2006

http://www.canestrinilex.com/resources/legal-fee-italy/

 

[Allusonz]

I think, since we write in English, there is no place for the Italian honorific "Dr" here. It just means something entirely different.
If someone wants to treat Stafanoni extra politely, there's always possibility to write "Ms Stefanoni".

Works that way for everyone.

It still does not validate that she has a doctorate or that she has earned that status. She is simply a technician. Nothing more

 

[Allusonz]

Anyone that attends a murder trial should expect that there wiill be crime scene photos. If people don't want to see the evidence, they shouldn't attend the trial. To attend the trial, knowing full well that evidence will be presented, and to then cry because the evidence was not pleasant ... who has sympathy for someone like that?

It's like going to church and hearing people singing, then complaining by claiming that there should be no reasonable expectation that there would be singing in a church.

If I understand this correctly, it is being stated that if the judge determines something is not to be introduced in open court, that the lawyer can just do as he pleases.

Certainly NOT! There are ethical standards lawyers are suppose to maintain, and doing something like that could end up in a contempt charge.

 

[otto]

It is done worldwide. Can someone provide me with a cite with respect to the monies he has been paid? If not that is great. If so I would love to see how much he is charging the Kercher's as it could explain much.

It has nothing to do with whether you are in the USA or Italy....

What is done worldwide? Believe it or not, there are a lot of countries in the world, and nearly all of them have a legal system that is different from the US. It makes no sense to say that although the US legal system is different from most, what happens in the US is practiced in other countries.

Lawyers are paid for their work. To suggest that Italian lawyers work for free requires a link. To suggest that US lawyers work for free and therefore all lawyers work for free is illogical.

 

[otto]

If I understand this correctly, it is being stated that if the judge determines something is not to be introduced in open court, that the lawyer can just do as he pleases.

Certainly NOT! There are ethical standards lawyers are suppose to maintain, and doing something like that could end up in a contempt charge.

Since when is it unethical to present evidence during a criminal trial?

 

[otto]

Works that way for everyone.

It still does not validate that she has a doctorate or that she has earned that status. She is simply a technician. Nothing more

Wouldn't it be necessary to have equal, or better, credentials before someone is in a position to criticize the professionial credentials of Dr Stefanoni?

 

[Allusonz]

Okay - here's the deal guys - continuing to argue over this is NOT going to be allowed. We have to use what is available. If you feel you have a better or different translation - please LINK it. I have not been able to find one.

Also - I have not been able to find an unbiased site that is providing any translations. All translations have been done by one side or the other, so they are all suspect to some extent. We have to deal with that. You can certainly compare and contrast the different documents - BUT just arguing is tedious and won't be allowed. If you have no faith in the translation, but cannot provide a link to a different translation - then SCROLL AND ROLL.

If you have questions, contact one of the mods by way of PM. Harmony2 and Coldpizza are the main mods for this case.

Thanks,

Salem

Well dang!

This means I am going to have to make 2 additional designer straight jackets (spelled this way for a reason) for them.

 

[Katody]

Wouldn't it be necessary to have equal, or better, credentials before someone is in a position to criticize the professionial credentials of Dr Stefanoni?

"Dr" Stefanoni, since we write in English

 

[SMK]

Don't worry

The Italian Supreme Court expressed preference for "osmotic" thinking instead of normal logic.

:waitasec: Not certain what "osmotic" means in this instance......but I think I get the gist.