Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#13

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You really think this is the detail she should include in the email? Why would she?

Do you have a habit of describing your bathroom adventures in your emails? Is it something people do?

No I don't but I didn't write the very detailed email that AK did. Again she described the mat in detail but failed to mention bits.
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Amanda_Knox's_Email_Home

i undressed in my room and took a quick shower in one of the two
bathrooms in my house, the one that is right next to meredith and my
bedrooms (situated right next to one another). it was after i stepped
out of the shower and onto the mat that i noticed the blood in the
bathroom. it was on the mat i was using to dry my feet and there were
drops of blood in the sink. at first i thought the blood might have
come from my ears which i had pierced extrensively not too long ago,
but then immediately i know it wasnt mine becaus the stains on the mat
were too big for just droplets form my ear, and when i touched the
blood in the sink it was caked on already. there was also blood
smeered on the faucet. again, however, i thought it was strange,
because my roommates and i are very clean and we wouldnt leave blood
int he bathroom, but i assumed that perhaps meredith was having
menstral issues and hadnt cleaned up yet. ew, but nothing to worry
about. i left the bathroom and got dressed in my room. after i got
dressed i went to the other bathroom in my house, the one that
 
She did mention drying her feet on the bathmat in her email.

Meredith's bedroom door was locked, which requires someone to stand, facing the door, and turn the key. Guede's prints do not illustrate this position or location of his feet.

But there is no footprint leading to that position. If she walked out of the bedroom, she would have had to put that foot down facing away from the door before turning to face the door.

That is why I feel Rudy could have put the key in the lock while still standing in the bedroom (with the door open), and pulled the door shut behind him as he walked out. That fits the pattern of shoe prints.

Do you know if there was any luminol testing done for footprints or signs of a clean up in Meredith's bedroom? I have not found any.
 
She did mention drying her feet on the bathmat in her email.

Meredith's bedroom door was locked, which requires someone to stand, facing the door, and turn the key. Guede's prints do not illustrate this position or location of his feet.

Only one of his shoes left prints.
 
Aa9511- As I stated in one of my first posts, I am not convinced that AK and RS are definitely innocent but I do think the evidence against them does not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they are guilty even if the evidence is taken osmotically. I really view the Italian justice system, at least in this case, as carrying out a kind of vendetta against the 2 defendants. I came to this conclusion after reading the ISC's arguments for throwing out the first acquittal. What infuriated me most was in essence their asking AK and RS to PROVE their innocence by proving contamination after the fact (which is next to impossible) when the prosecution and their experts could have proven there was no contamination if the initial studies were done correctly and thoroughly to begin with. I might add here that I too have no direct or indirect involvement with anyone involvement with anyone involved in the case.

You ask about my intense dislike of Steffanoni. I tend to hold those who hold the lives of others in their hands to a higher standard than the average person. That includes doctors, nurses, lawyers, policemen and forensic scientists. Everyone is entitled to make a mistake or two, even the people I would hold to a higher standard. Heck, I know I've misread the occasional x-ray or MRI. However, these are what I like to call honest mistakes. They don't happen often and there is no malicious pattern to these mistakes.

Steffanoni's work in this case shows just not one mistake but several as I've alluded to before. All of these mistakes seem to be in the prosecution's favor. Not one mistake wound up favoring the defense. Additionally, I look at her testimony in court. I would say she bent over backwards (and that, in my opinion, is being charitable) to portray the evidence in the best prosecutorial light possible. Now I understand why both defense and prosecution lawyers portray their evidence to support their case. That's their job. But, a scientist has the responsibility to intellectual honesty and MUST let the data, ALL the data, speak for itself. Taken osmotically, like the ISC likes to do, I view Steffanoni's work as being intellectually dishonest and that is one of the worst things one can say about a scientist. In some ways, it's the equivalent of the scientist who forges data. When caught, that scientist is ostracized and shunned by the rest of the scientific community. I hope that explains why I feel so strongly about Steffanoni.

Steffanoni's work, taken together with that of the police, prosecutors and their computer experts, IMO, demonstrates, at best supreme incompetence and at worst a disregard for the law and a willingness to do whatever it takes to achieve a guilty verdict using the motto, the ends justify the means as their banner. I point to the lack of videotaping of AK's interrogation and the frying of personal computers as just 2 examples. I view the case, rightly or wrongly, as an attempt by the Italian justice system to railroad 2 young people who up until the night of the murder and thereafter never exhibited violent tendencies. Like I said above, I don't know for sure whether they are innocent or guilty of complicity in the murder but I do know that the evidence does NOT prove their guilt and the Italian justice system should be ashamed of themselves for how they have treated this case.

AA9511- I've done some more thinking on your question and I'd like to use a sports analogy to explain why I get so heated when discussing Steffanoni and the prosecutions handling of evidence. Consider the case like a football game where the refererees' calls (in this case the analysis and interpretation of evidence and the carrying out of interrogations) all seem to go against one team. As an impartial viewer of the game, I become a little suspicious. What if then, on instant replay, the replays show that many but not all of the calls were unjustified (in this case, the instant replays are represented by C-V's court appointed impartial criticism of Steffanoni's work). I bet then you might become VERY suspicious of the referees impartiality. What if then these penalties are determined to be non-reviewable plays (in this case MK's purported DNA on the knife, RS's DNA on the now rusted bra clasp, the luminol positive/TMB negative footprints, the fried harddrives and even the interrogation since none of these can be retested or revisited). Additionally, what if some of these non-reviewable plays had a significant impact on the game ( in this case resulting in a guilty verdict; note I am presuming the worst in the current trial). Now, what if the losing team appeals the game to the commisioner of the league (in the case the ISC) and the commisioner says, "too bad, those are the rules and you have to live with the results (I have little hope that a guilty verdict would be reversed by the ISC). I bet that you, as a unbiased fan, would be disgusted with the referees (in this case the prosecution's interrogators and their scientific experts (Steffanoni and the computer analysts)). You might even be a little disgusted with the rules that allowed this travesty to occur and the commissioner who had it in his discretion to make things right but didn't. You are at least hoping that the referees would get penalized in some way, maybe get suspended or lose their jobs completely.

This is how I feel about the conduct of this entire case. It truly makes me disgusted with the entire Italian justice system AS IT PERTAINS TO THIS CASE. My disgust is particularly harsh toward Steffanoni since her work was done in an area where I have a little expertese.
 
That's an interesting site, but I have to question whether the content is objective. This is in the "about us" comments:

"Our first mission began in early 2010 when we created Injustice in Perugia (IIP), a grassroots organization that worked to secure freedom for Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, two innocent people wrongfully convicted for murder in Perugia, Italy. Both were declared innocent on appeal in October 2011 after 1427 days of wrongful imprisonment."

http://wrongfulconvictionnews.com/aboutus/

I am not into the site war controversy. I want the truth regardless of where it comes from. Is the information accurate and true, Otto? Did Guede set a fire and kill a cat? Was he diagnosed with Psychogenic Dissociation?
 
I am not into the site war controversy. I want the truth regardless of where it comes from. Is the information accurate and true, Otto? Did Guede set a fire and kill a cat? Was he diagnosed with Psychogenic Dissociation?

Yes, from what I've read, although you could call the cat's death in the fire a "burglary gone wrong" in that Rudy probably didn't intend for it to end that way.
 
But there is no footprint leading to that position. If she walked out of the bedroom, she would have had to put that foot down facing away from the door before turning to face the door.

That is why I feel Rudy could have put the key in the lock while still standing in the bedroom (with the door open), and pulled the door shut behind him as he walked out. That fits the pattern of shoe prints.

Do you know if there was any luminol testing done for footprints or signs of a clean up in Meredith's bedroom? I have not found any.

IMO a lot of what AK has said reminds me of exactly what RG did in his diary. She has created a story that covers much of the evidence. To many, much of her story is as unbelievable.
 
I am not into the site war controversy. I want the truth regardless of where it comes from. Is the information accurate and true, Otto? Did Guede set a fire and kill a cat? Was he diagnosed with Psychogenic Dissociation?

I doubt that the content on the site is objective. We can see that it is not mainstream media, and we know that the site is an offshoot from a forum that has a strong opinion about the case.

If there is a link to mainstream media about a dead cat and arson, I missed it. All I've read about that story is that a house burned down, a cat died and a watch went missing. After Guede's arrest, the occupant of the house may have suggested that Guede must have been the culprit. I have never read anything connecting Guede to that incident.
 
Yes, from what I've read, although you could call the cat's death in the fire a "burglary gone wrong" in that Rudy probably didn't intend for it to end that way.

Is there a MSM link where police connect Guede to that incident?
 
I doubt that the content on the site is objective. We can see that it is not mainstream media, and we know that the site is an offshoot from a forum that has a strong opinion about the case.

If there is a link to mainstream media about a dead cat and arson, I missed it. All I've read about that story is that a house burned down, a cat died and a watch went missing. After Guede's arrest, the occupant of the house may have suggested that Guede must have been the culprit. I have never read anything connecting Guede to that incident.

It's also in the Massei report, that a woman's gold watch was found in Rudy's backpack when he was searched after the nursery incident. The nursery had also had a break-in a couple of weeks earlier in which the intruder cooked a big messy meal in the kitchen, which was also done in the break in involving the cat and the gold watch.
 
It's also in the Massei report, that a woman's gold watch was found in Rudy's backpack when he was searched after the nursery incident. The nursery had also had a break-in a couple of weeks earlier in which the intruder cooked a big messy meal in the kitchen, which was also done in the break in involving the cat and the gold watch.

Did the woman with the missing watch identify the watch that was found in Guede's backpack, and was Guede charged with theft and arson? Having seen all the legal filings surrounding this case, I would be very surprised if the prosecution would let an arson and theft go unpunished.
 
Thank you, aa9511, for replying to my posts from the last thread. Y'all's collective knowledge of this case is a bit intimidating. Sometimes I feel like the little sister that tags along, occasionally tugging on everyone's collective sweater to ask an annoying question lol.

I have heard of the prank theory, but to me it is improbable. Instead of the contortions to fit AK and RS into the murder somehow, why not believe that the criminal with a history of breaking and entering into a building with a rock through a window, and who also is known to carry a knife, was guilty of the murder? I know at this point nobody is really going to change their mind, these are just my own musings.

Otto, I must have been mistaken about Italy offering a plea deal to RS. I do remember reading this a while ago, but I defer to everyone else in regards to this.

Hi Snoods, the evidence that it was not just Rudy is constantly being discussed (more like debated), so if you just follow along for a little while, or read a little back in this thread and the last, you will get a pretty good idea of what all that evidence is, as well as the counter-arguments to it.

I would just like to say something re: staging. When someone stages something, they want to make it appear a certain way. In this case, if we believe in staging and manipulation of the crime scene, that is because the perps wanted to make it appear a certain way. Now what way would that be? Would they want to manipulate it to say - a dog came in and attacked Meredith (no one will believe)? Or would they want to manipulate it to something like - a burglar, possibly sociopathic burglar, came in and raped and assaulted and murdered a young woman (everyone will believe)?

Perhaps the reason they "staged" it to make it look that way is PRECISELY because it is so easy for people to believe.
 
Did the woman with the missing watch identify the watch that was found in Guede's backpack, and was Guede charged with theft and arson?

The police let Rudy go and take with him the items in his backpack, so no. No attempt to match the watch to the one reported stolen was made.
 
I love all of youz, but I can't help but giggle at this particular argument! I remember posts a while back (don't make me search for them) from a few of the guilty side aghast that us innocents were quoting from a Daily Mail article, and now us innocents are clutching our pearls that Radar online is being quoted!

TorisMom, I apologize for piggybacking off of your post, but I just started cracking up at your "The Enquirer has had Elvis alive and well for many years" statement :floorlaugh:!

I had a good laugh at the "alien/human sex and alien/human babies" part!!! I almost was thinking of putting it as my signature or whatever the name for it is!!! LOL!!! :floorlaugh:

Thanks TorisMom, we need a bit of humor on here now and again to lighten things up!
 
Aa9511- As I stated in one of my first posts, I am not convinced that AK and RS are definitely innocent but I do think the evidence against them does not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they are guilty even if the evidence is taken osmotically. I really view the Italian justice system, at least in this case, as carrying out a kind of vendetta against the 2 defendants. I came to this conclusion after reading the ISC's arguments for throwing out the first acquittal. What infuriated me most was in essence their asking AK and RS to PROVE their innocence by proving contamination after the fact (which is next to impossible) when the prosecution and their experts could have proven there was no contamination if the initial studies were done correctly and thoroughly to begin with. I might add here that I too have no direct or indirect involvement with anyone involvement with anyone involved in the case.

You ask about my intense dislike of Steffanoni. I tend to hold those who hold the lives of others in their hands to a higher standard than the average person. That includes doctors, nurses, lawyers, policemen and forensic scientists. Everyone is entitled to make a mistake or two, even the people I would hold to a higher standard. Heck, I know I've misread the occasional x-ray or MRI. However, these are what I like to call honest mistakes. They don't happen often and there is no malicious pattern to these mistakes.

Steffanoni's work in this case shows just not one mistake but several as I've alluded to before. All of these mistakes seem to be in the prosecution's favor. Not one mistake wound up favoring the defense. Additionally, I look at her testimony in court. I would say she bent over backwards (and that, in my opinion, is being charitable) to portray the evidence in the best prosecutorial light possible. Now I understand why both defense and prosecution lawyers portray their evidence to support their case. That's their job. But, a scientist has the responsibility to intellectual honesty and MUST let the data, ALL the data, speak for itself. Taken osmotically, like the ISC likes to do, I view Steffanoni's work as being intellectually dishonest and that is one of the worst things one can say about a scientist. In some ways, it's the equivalent of the scientist who forges data. When caught, that scientist is ostracized and shunned by the rest of the scientific community. I hope that explains why I feel so strongly about Steffanoni.

Steffanoni's work, taken together with that of the police, prosecutors and their computer experts, IMO, demonstrates, at best supreme incompetence and at worst a disregard for the law and a willingness to do whatever it takes to achieve a guilty verdict using the motto, the ends justify the means as their banner. I point to the lack of videotaping of AK's interrogation and the frying of personal computers as just 2 examples. I view the case, rightly or wrongly, as an attempt by the Italian justice system to railroad 2 young people who up until the night of the murder and thereafter never exhibited violent tendencies. Like I said above, I don't know for sure whether they are innocent or guilty of complicity in the murder but I do know that the evidence does NOT prove their guilt and the Italian justice system should be ashamed of themselves for how they have treated this case.

Ok, I understand. Thank you for your honesty.
 
Did the woman with the missing watch identify the watch that was found in Guede's backpack, and was Guede charged with theft and arson? Having seen all the legal filings surrounding this case, I would be very surprised if the prosecution would let an arson and theft go unpunished.

Obviously they did let it go unpunished. No one else was tried for the crime.
 
The police let Rudy go and take with him the items in his backpack, so no. No attempt to match the watch to the one reported stolen was made.

If police allowed Guede to keep the watch, then they must have assumed that it belonged to him.
 
If police allowed Guede to keep the watch, then they must have assumed that it belonged to him.

Yes, and also the laptop that the lawyers confirmed was stolen from their offices.

I don't see any exoneration of Rudy in your comments, only lack of interest or follow-up by the police.
 
Yes, and also the laptop that the lawyers confirmed was stolen from their offices.

I don't see any exoneration of Rudy in your comments, only lack of interest or follow-up by the police.

So the bottom line is that there is no MSM link connecting Guede to arson, cat killing and theft of a watch; no link to validate the claim.

Why would police fail to follow up on an arson ... or is that an assumption based on the fact that Guede has not been charged with arson?

Did police allow Guede to keep the laptop? How did the lawyer confirm it was his laptop?
 
Does Amanda's bathmat story cover her footprint that is facing Meredith's door?
Was there enough blood on the mat to cover Amanda's foot or would she have needed to put her foot right on the bloody footprint and then step off a few times?

IMO the opposite is true, Amanda told the bathmat story to cover anything luminol would uncover. Again why would anyone use a bloody mat this way over just quickly running to your room? It would've also been very cold in the cottage, so why not get to your room as quick as possible there is nothing quick about scooting on a bathmat. To unrealistic to me but I guess I can see from an innocent pov twisting it to the police doing the luminol to frame AK.


bbm

Yes, exactly. If we are supposed to accept that the prosection did this elaborate scheme to get Amanda and RS - for whatever reason, we don't know (maybe they didn't like their hair color) - which involved an organization-wide conspiracy, involving planting DNA at the crime scene as well as purposefully "contaminating" the lab, covering up the truth in order to nail them (for what, as I said we don't know), bribing witnesses, etc.. - then I have no qualms about saying that Amanda and RS thought out a plan to stage the scene to make it look like a sociopathic burglar came in to rape and murder Meredith.
 
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