Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL* #2

[SMK]

This link suggests that it will take time to determine who contributed the DNA. It wouldn't be surprising that it belongs to Knox. It is a little unusual that her DNA is found at the point where the handle connects to the blade.

I suppose the arguments could be that it is evidence that Knox thoroughly cleaned the knife, or that she normally handles knives by holding the point where the blade meets the handle. I expect there will be many people that claim that they normally touch the point on a knife where the blade meets the handle, although personally I find this unusual.

Yes, I am just wondering about reports at the start of the retrial in Florence, that the knife evidence would "make or break" the ruling as to G or NG. How do you think this will stand with that, should they rule that it belongs to Knox?

 

[otto]

Yes, I am just wondering about reports at the start of the retrial in Florence, that the knife evidence would "make or break" the ruling as to G or NG. How do you think this will stand with that, should they rule that it belongs to Knox?

If the DNA belonged to Meredith, then it would be a make or break revelation, but if the DNA belongs to Knox, it seems to me that it doesn't add anything to what is already known. That is, there is the possibility of an innocent explanation for her DNA to be on the knife.

I suppose the court will have to rely on the other evidence to make their ruling. Is there enough ambiguity in the other evidence to imply a not guilty verdict?

 

[SMK]

If the DNA belonged to Meredith, then it would be a make or break revelation, but if the DNA belongs to Knox, it seems to me that it doesn't add anything to what is already known. That is, there is the possibility of an innocent explanation for her DNA to be on the knife.

I suppose the court will have to rely on the other evidence to make their ruling. Is there enough ambiguity in the other evidence to imply a not guilty verdict?

I think you're correct: This is not going to make or break the case at all. All the evidence as a whole will have to be ruled either strong enough or not in terms of culpability.

 

[otto]

I think you're correct: This is not going to make or break the case at all. All the evidence as a whole will have to be ruled either strong enough or not in terms of culpability.

The appeal court did leave themselves with the option of re-examining other evidence. I wonder if the court will turn to other evidence that could be open to interpretation.

Any thoughts on why Sollecito's DNA is not on the knife?

 

[SMK]

The appeal court did leave themselves with the option of re-examining other evidence. I wonder if the court will turn to other evidence that could be open to interpretation.

Any thoughts on why Sollecito's DNA is not on the knife?

I think its likely that they will in fact look at other evidence now. I don't know RE Sollecito: what are your own thoughts? And what happened to MK's dna on the knife?

 

[otto]

I think its likely that they will in fact look at other evidence now. I don't know RE Sollecito: what are your own thoughts?

The prosecution theory is that Knox and Sollecito used the knife during the murder, and that they took the knife back to Sollecito's apartment, where they attempted to thoroughly clean the knife with bleach. The knife was collected because it was too clean in comparison to all the other knives.

If we accept that there is evidence of Meredith on the blade, Knox on the handle, and no evidence of Sollecito on his own knife, one does have to wonder how that happened. Sollecito cooked the fish dinner at his house the night of the murder and Knox stated that Sollecito cooked for her. Now we should accept the statement that Knox cooked for Sollecito?

In the email that Knox sent to friends shortly after the murder (still looking for the link) she stated that Sollecito made pasta at her cottage on the afternoon before the murder.



Ref: Massei Report; p 62

 

[otto]

There is also still the lingering question of Sollecito's missing knife. Friends reported that it was his favorite knife. The size and proportions were consistent with injuries to Meredith's neck.

 

[SMK]

There is also still the lingering question of Sollecito's missing knife. Friends reported that it was his favorite knife. The size and proportions were consistent with injuries to Meredith's neck.

But the trouble for the prosecution is of course that that knife is not the one being tested.

As someone pointed out on JREF earlier, Andrea Vogt has this to say before the knife testing began:

If the DNA being tested matches the profile of either the victim Meredith Kercher or the other man already in jail for the murder, Rudy Guede, it is a very ominous sign for the defense. If more of Meredith’s DNA is found on the blade, it further confirms the prosecution’s assertion that the kitchen knife found in Sollecito’s flat was indeed the murder weapon. If Rudy Guede’s DNA is found on the blade, it confirms his story that he was stabbed in the palm by a knife-wielding attacker as he came out of the bathroom to see what all the fracas was about. Guede testified that the attacker said in Italian “Black man found, black man guilty,” before running out the door. He claims he found Meredith dying in her room and tried to save her, but, unable to stop the bleeding, eventually panicked and fled. Since Guede had never visited Sollecito’s flat, the prosecution would like argue that his DNA on the blade meant that either Knox or Sollecito brought the weapon back there after the murder and confrontation with Guede.

If, on the other hand, the DNA results are inconclusive, the forensic evidence could be interpreted as weakened and there is more likelihood of acquittal, partial acquittal or conviction on lesser charges, such as omicidio colposo (manslaughter), options that remain open to the court.

http://thefreelancedesk.com/front_featured/amanda-knox-appeal-2/

According to the above, this finding is not good at all for the prosecution, and points toward aquittal or lesser charges.

 

[otto]

But the trouble for the prosecution is of course that that knife is not the one being tested.

As someone pointed out on JREF earlier, Andrea Vogt has this to say before the knife testing began:

According to the above, this finding is not good at all for the prosecution, and points toward aquittal or lesser charges.

This is the comment by Andrea Vogt that interests me:

"The presiding judge in the case has made it clear he believes there is plenty of material already deposited in the court files (forensic reports, consultants’ analysis, debate and counter debate, transcripts, etc) for a fully informed and reasoned decision."

My understanding of this comment from the Judge is that additional information about the knife will probably not influence the existing abundance of material required for a fully informed and reasoned decision.

http://thefreelancedesk.com/front_featured/amanda-knox-appeal-2/

 

[SMK]

This is the comment by Andrea Vogt that interests me:

"The presiding judge in the case has made it clear he believes there is plenty of material already deposited in the court files (forensic reports, consultants’ analysis, debate and counter debate, transcripts, etc) for a fully informed and reasoned decision."

My understanding of this comment from the Judge is that additional information about the knife will probably not influence the existing abundance of material required for a fully informed and reasoned decision.

http://thefreelancedesk.com/front_featured/amanda-knox-appeal-2/

Well, if they are confident that all the material outside the knife is enough, then yes, we should get a fully informed ruling.

Just wish it would be sooner rather than later. Is this a jury again? I really don't understand the Italian process, I'm afraid.

ETA: One wonders, though, what all the talk about the knife evidence being essential was all about, as well as why the knowledgeable Ms. Vogt herself suggested these findings would lean toward acquittal?

 

[otto]

Well, if they are confident that all the material outside the knife is enough, then yes, we should get a fully informed ruling.

Just wish it would be sooner rather than later. Is this a jury again? I really don't understand the Italian process, I'm afraid.

ETA: One wonders, though, what all the talk about the knife evidence being essential was all about, as well as why the knowledgeable Ms. Vogt herself suggested these findings would lean toward acquittal?

Andrea poses the question about the knife results: "But how crucial will the results be to appeal outcome?"

She presents a number of possible outcomes. One scenario she presents is as follows:

"If, on the other hand, the DNA results are inconclusive, the forensic evidence could be interpreted as weakened and there is more likelihood of acquittal, partial acquittal or conviction on lesser charges, such as omicidio colposo (manslaughter), options that remain open to the court." link

From following the case for far too many years, I would say that the abundance of material is sufficient for a conviction. Proof that the knife was used in the murder reinforces the argument of premeditation. Exclusion of that knife as the murder weapon might mean lesser charges.

 

[SMK]

Andrea poses the question about the knife results: "But how crucial will the results be to appeal outcome?"

She presents a number of possible outcomes. One scenario she presents is as follows:

"If, on the other hand, the DNA results are inconclusive, the forensic evidence could be interpreted as weakened and there is more likelihood of acquittal, partial acquittal or conviction on lesser charges, such as omicidio colposo (manslaughter), options that remain open to the court." link

From following the case for far too many years, I would say that the abundance of material is sufficient for a conviction. Proof that the knife was used in the murder reinforces the argument of premeditation. Exclusion of that knife as the murder weapon might mean lesser charges.

Yes, I understand - what do you think might prove that the knife is the murder weapon?

 

[otto]

Yes, I understand - what do you think might prove that the knife is the murder weapon?

We already have the information about Knox on the handle and Meredith on the blade. I'm not really prepared to revisit all the arguments related to the knife.

 

[SMK]

We already have the information about Knox on the handle and Meredith on the blade. I'm not really prepared to revisit all the arguments related to the knife.

Well, I never paid much attention to this aspect of the case, but I guess you're saying you believe its proven, then.

 

[otto]

Well, I never paid much attention to this aspect of the case, but I guess you're saying you believe its proven, then.

Actually, I'm saying that I'm not particularly interested in revisiting the detailed discussion about the knife. A search of previous threads should bring up many views on the topic.

 

[SMK]

Actually, I'm saying that I'm not particularly interested in revisiting the detailed discussion about the knife. A search of previous threads should bring up many views on the topic.

OK, thank you.

 

[SMK]

This is all very confusing: It sounds like nothing has changed at all after this analysis.

I guess it will make more sense in the court discussion scheduled for November 6:

(and of course Google Translation always makes things anything but clear as well)

Murder Meredith on knife
DNA evidence of Amanda Knox
The knife was seized at the home of Raffaele Sollecito and is believed to be the murder weapon. The track was not examined because the amount of material was deemed insufficient

ROME - There would be human DNA, which could correspond to that of Amanda, found in the track, and so far examined, seized the knife in Raffaele Sollecito's house and found the murder weapon with the accusation she was killed the British student Meredith Kercher.

It is an indication that is emerging from the expertise of the police of the Ris of Rome, appointed by the Court of Florence, which is celebrating the appeal a. exams started yesterday and continued throughout the day today, in the presence of the advisers of the parties .

For the final outcome, however, need further investigation. The results will then be displayed in a report, which will be filed by the end of October and discussed in court on November 6. The track was identified by the experts named in the appeal trial in Perugia, but not subjected to analysis because it was considered not susceptible to "correct amplification, being a low copy number". That is an amount of DNA that "it can not ensure reliable results." The same criterion led to believe unreliable giving the Kercher another track of DNA found on the blade.

The experts of the courts of second instance instead believed correct identification of Knox's DNA on the handle of the knife: Amanda at the time was engaged to Sollecito and therefore normally used its objects in the kitchen.

Following the annulment by the Supreme Court of acquittals Amando Knox and Sollecito, in ' a call in progress in Florence, the judges ordered a new appraisal. At Ris were asked to determine if the track has not examined were analyzed and, if so, whether it was due to the victim or Rudy Guede, already sentenced to 16 years in prison.

The facts disclosed would lead instead to the genetic code of Knox.

No comments for the defense of the accused, waiting to hear the official results of the assessment. The lawyers Luciano Ghirga and Luca Maori, Sollecito and Knox's lawyers, you are in fact limited to make it clear that they would be satisfied if the rumors were confirmed on the attribution of the young Seattle. "If correspond to true - said the Kercher family lawyer, the lawyer Francesco Maresca - it is confirmed that the knife is passed into the hands of Amanda, being satisfied that the survey had to be completed and that it was instead left unfinished."

http://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/20...u_coltello_indizi_del_dna_di_amanda-68410733/

But perhaps there is more, as per Vogt's tweet:

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 53m
Leaks suggest DNA on knife shows #amandaknox genetic profile, but there is another profile being studied. Too early to interpret.

 

[whiterum]

This is all very confusing: It sounds like nothing has changed at all after this analysis.

I guess it will make more sense in the court discussion scheduled for November 6:

(and of course Google Translation always makes things anything but clear as well)



http://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/20...u_coltello_indizi_del_dna_di_amanda-68410733/

Andrea Vogt Tweets that Leaks suggest DNA on knife shows amandaknox genetic profile, but there is another profile being studied. Too early to interpret.
10:26pm - 11 Oct 13

 

[whiterum]

Sorry SMK , just noticed you have already posted this above .

 

[SMK]

Sorry SMK , just noticed you have already posted this above .

I added it in later. We probably posted it at the same time Yes, we will have to wait and see what it entails...