Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL* #2

[Sonata]

Please provide the name of any one of the "hundreds of examples" of false confessions where an educated adult provided a written false accusation after one hour and fifteen minutes of questioning ... just one example will suffice.

Amanda Knox :crazy:

 

[Sonata]

This is a good article with examples of coerced confessions. One involves a sergeant confessing to child abuse after just over an hour of questioning.

http://www.ipt-forensics.com/library/coerced.htm

 

[Sonata]

Well based on your theory of simple crimes, all savage murders are done by random people.

I'm sure if there were no pictures Jodi Arias left implicating her of the crime, or her palmprint on the wall, no one would have also believed that she could have done something so horrible. We would have believed that some random person came and brutally murdered Travis in a most horrific manner.

And yet in her case, we KNOW that she did it.

My point is that we shouldn't go with our gut instinct that a pretty little young thing like Amanda could not have done something so horrible. Just like some are saying we shouldn't go with a gut instinct that she did do it. It goes both ways. We should just look at the evidence and go from there.

I learned from Jodi Arias case NEVER to judge based on appearances or what we THINK a person is capable of, especially when said people are good actors/manipulators.

I don't think anyone on here is saying that AK is too pretty to kill. We're not that ridiculous and superficial.

The point is about context. And actually, Jodi Arias is a poor comparison, because statistically it is far more likely that you will be murdered by a partner or former partner than anyone else.

 

[Sonata]

I'm sure most of those examples are of suspects of a certain color and gender, who the investigators racially profiled and thought it was ok to pressure them and probably used vulgur language and physical force. That is REAL pressure.

I have a VERY hard time believing this was the type of pressure Amanda Knox was facing.

Since there is absolutely no recording of this interrogation, I don't think we can possibly say just how pressured it was.

All I know is that I have never been interrogated, let alone regarding a murder, and I think I would find it extremely stressful regardless of language or violent behaviour.

 

[aa9511]

This is a good article with examples of coerced confessions. One involves a sergeant confessing to child abuse after just over an hour of questioning.

http://www.ipt-forensics.com/library/coerced.htm

I tried to read through it, it was very long so I glanced through it. But the reports of Amanda's interrogation does not sound like these cases, IMO. First of all, she was already at the police station willingly. Secondly, I don't think the prosecutor or questioners were yelling at her with "red faces" or yelling very loudly and angry, like it said the detectives were doing in a couple of the above cases. She was not verbally or physically abused by the questioners. In fact, the translator said one investigator went out of his way to be kind to her, brought her drinks, etc.. They were just asking her questions in a calm manner.

I didn't get the sense of any psychological manipulation being done on her, like in the case of the mother accused of killing her child. I don't think she was asked things like "have you ever had thoughts of killing anyone?"...."do you ever fantasize about killing people"...."have you ever hurt an animal?' or any questions like that which would maker her unsure of her own sanity.

I don't believe her interrogation were like any of the cases in the link. Also, as I said in another post, one can probably use Google and find just about anything to support a claim nowadays, doesn't mean that I should change my standards of "reasonable person' or what a "reasonable person" would have done in THIS situation.

 

[aa9511]

I don't think anyone on here is saying that AK is too pretty to kill. We're not that ridiculous and superficial.

The point is about context. And actually, Jodi Arias is a poor comparison, because statistically it is far more likely that you will be murdered by a partner or former partner than anyone else.

Let me ask you, if Amanda was black and a man, would you still be so sure that she had nothing to do with this?

Of course her age, her color, her upbringing, her education, where she's from....that all plays into this, whether you want to admit it or not.

 

[Sonata]

Let me ask you, if Amanda was black and a man, would you still be so sure that she had nothing to do with this?

Of course her age, her color, her upbringing, her education, where she's from....that all plays into this, whether you want to admit it or not.

That is absolutely untrue. Those factors certainly contributed to the media circus, but have absolutely nothing to do with my opinion of the case. I initally thought Amanda was guilty. It was only on looking into the case in more depth that I changed my mind.

Also, for the record, I do not claim to be sure. I just have reasonable doubt.

 

[Sonata]

I tried to read through it, it was very long so I glanced through it. But the reports of Amanda's interrogation does not sound like these cases, IMO. First of all, she was already at the police station willingly. Secondly, I don't think the prosecutor or questioners were yelling at her with "red faces" or yelling very loudly and angry, like it said the detectives were doing in a couple of the above cases. She was not verbally or physically abused by the questioners. In fact, the translator said one investigator went out of his way to be kind to her, brought her drinks, etc.. They were just asking her questions in a calm manner.

I didn't get the sense of any psychological manipulation being done on her, like in the case of the mother accused of killing her child. I don't think she was asked things like "have you ever had thoughts of killing anyone?"...."do you ever fantasize about killing people"...."have you ever hurt an animal?' or any questions like that which would maker her unsure of her own sanity.

I don't believe her interrogation were like any of the cases in the link. Also, as I said in another post, one can probably use Google and find just about anything to support a claim nowadays, doesn't mean that I should change my standards of "reasonable person' or what a "reasonable person" would have done in THIS situation.

I personally find the concept of a 'reasonable' person or reaction troublesome in general. As someone who works in the mental health industry, I know all too well that normal is pretty illusory.

 

[Sonata]

I tried to read through it, it was very long so I glanced through it. But the reports of Amanda's interrogation does not sound like these cases, IMO. First of all, she was already at the police station willingly. Secondly, I don't think the prosecutor or questioners were yelling at her with "red faces" or yelling very loudly and angry, like it said the detectives were doing in a couple of the above cases. She was not verbally or physically abused by the questioners. In fact, the translator said one investigator went out of his way to be kind to her, brought her drinks, etc.. They were just asking her questions in a calm manner.

I didn't get the sense of any psychological manipulation being done on her, like in the case of the mother accused of killing her child. I don't think she was asked things like "have you ever had thoughts of killing anyone?"...."do you ever fantasize about killing people"...."have you ever hurt an animal?' or any questions like that which would maker her unsure of her own sanity.

I don't believe her interrogation were like any of the cases in the link. Also, as I said in another post, one can probably use Google and find just about anything to support a claim nowadays, doesn't mean that I should change my standards of "reasonable person' or what a "reasonable person" would have done in THIS situation.

I didn't read the whole thing either. I was just on a mission to find coerced confessions extracted in a short space of time as per Otto's request.

 

[aa9511]

I personally find the concept of a 'reasonable' person or reaction troublesome in general. As someone who works in the mental health industry, I know all too well that normal is pretty illusory.

You make a point, Sonata. But if there was no standard for "reasonable," you can imagine that no guilty person would probably ever be convicted.

 

[Sonata]

You make a point, Sonata. But if there was no standard for "reasonable," you can imagine that no guilty person would probably ever be convicted.

Only if they were proven to have committed the crime. But you can't prove based on behaviour alone, because there is no set standard for 'reasonable' or 'normal' behaviour.

 

[sherlockh]

First news on the knife test confirms human DNA on the knife, but not sure yet who it belongs to. Only in Italian news so far.
http://www.toscanatv.com/leggi_news?idnews=AA831951

 

[dog.gone.cute]

First news on the knife test confirms human DNA on the knife, but not sure yet who it belongs to. Only in Italian news so far.
http://www.toscanatv.com/leggi_news?idnews=AA831951

:seeya: Thanks, sherlockh, for this update !

I was hoping for some "news" ... hopefully, the good people at TJMK will translate the article into English !

lease:

 

[otto]

This is a good article with examples of coerced confessions. One involves a sergeant confessing to child abuse after just over an hour of questioning.

http://www.ipt-forensics.com/library/coerced.htm

I see that this man admitted that something was a possibility. " ... the confession was in the form of agreeing to allegations posed to him by the agent." Without a name or any other details, it's rather difficult to know what really happened, but it certainly wouldn't be the first time that a man in an authority position molested a child with reduced mental abilities.

This is significantly different from the Knox scenario. Knox volunteered Patrick's name, and presented an elaborate story regarding his involvement in the murder. In the hour and fifteen minutes that Knox was questioned, she claimed that she met Patrick at the basketball courts, went together to the cottage, Patrick attacked Meredith while she was in the kitchen, she heard Meredith scream and chose to do nothing other than cover her ears. She stated that she was very afraid of Patrick. During testimony, she stated that she was not at all afraid of Guede - whom we know was involved in the murder.



Ref: Massei Report

 

[otto]

Now we know that there is DNA on the knife. Soon we'll learn whose it is. One thing we now know is that the Conti and Vecchiotti conclusions were completely wrong.

 

[SMK]

Now we know that there is DNA on the knife. Soon we'll learn whose it is. One thing we now know is that the Conti and Vecchiotti conclusions were completely wrong.

Many are saying that this is not news; that a small trace of human DNA was already known to be on the knife. Is this true? I really don't know. . .

 

[SMK]

and some are already tweeting that it belongs to Amanda, as per:

Processo Meredith:
Analyzed the third track on the knife: " It belongs to Amanda"

http://www.corrieredellumbria.it/news/perugia/129229/Analizzata-la-terza-traccia-sul-coltello.html

 

[otto]

Regarding the point of whether Knox states that she is responsible for Patrick's arrest and imprisonment:



Ref: trial transcripts
http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=17375

 

[otto]

Many are saying that this is not news; that a small trace of human DNA was already known to be on the knife. Is this true? I really don't know. . .

It seems to be the I-36 sample which, as far as I can tell, is the point of contact between the blade and the handle. The conclusions of Conti and Vecchiotti are as follows:



Anyone that has accepted the Conti and Vecchiotti report as truth cannot at the same time claim that they also believed that there was DNA on the knife. It's impossible for both to be true.

Ref: p 143
http://knoxdnareport.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/translation-of-the-conti-vecchiotti-report2.pdf

 

[otto]

and some are already tweeting that it belongs to Amanda, as per:

http://www.corrieredellumbria.it/news/perugia/129229/Analizzata-la-terza-traccia-sul-coltello.html

This link suggests that it will take time to determine who contributed the DNA. It wouldn't be surprising that it belongs to Knox. It is a little unusual that her DNA is found at the point where the handle connects to the blade.

I suppose the arguments could be that it is evidence that Knox thoroughly cleaned the knife, or that she normally handles knives by holding the point where the blade meets the handle. I expect there will be many people that claim that they normally touch the point on a knife where the blade meets the handle, although personally I find this unusual.