Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#3

[otto]

Again, both sides are coming to completely divergent conclusions, based on the same data:

Steve Moore has tweeted that the DNA results have completely dismissed the knife as the murder weapon, while TJMK believes the DNA results now fully uphold conviction. See what I mean? :waitasec:

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php (top announcement and Oct. 31 article on website page)

What do you make of a former FBI agent that categorically dismisses Meredith's DNA on the blade of the knife; a sample that is larger than the trace belonging to Knox on the handle?

 

[sherlockh]

As the Italian reports imply:
No DNA of Kercher, Guede, or Sollecito: Confirmed DNA of Knox - so the jury would be free to disregard this as the murder weapon, I suppose.

The reports say that no DNA of Kercher, Guede, or Sollecito was found in the new trace that was just tested. Massei concluded that the knife with one trace of Meredith, and one trace of Knox was the murder weapon. Now the knife seems to have one trace of Meredith and 2 traces of Knox. I haven't seen any explanation why an extra trace of Knox would mean that the knife is no longer the murder weapon.

 

[SMK]

What do you make of a former FBI agent that categorically dismisses Meredith's DNA on the blade of the knife; a sample that is larger than the trace belonging to Knox on the handle?

Yes, from reading on TJMK and PMF - (I read on those sites to help balance what I read on JREF and other pro-innocence sites) - it would appear that Moore believes those original DNA findings which showed Kercher's DNA have somehow been dismissed? On what is he basing this?:waitasec:

 

[otto]

Yes, from reading on TJMK and PMF - (I read on those sites to help balance what I read on JREF and other pro-innocence sites) - it would appear that Moore believes those original DNA findings which showed Kerchers DNA have somehow been dismissed? On what is he basing this?:waitasec:

Perhaps this is how he interpreted evidence when he was employed by the FBI, who knows. It is rather unusual, in my humble opinion, for any investigator to conclude that because a suspect's DNA is on the alleged murder weapon, one must conclude that it is not the murder weapon. Or ... because DNA from the other two suspects is not on the handle of the murder weapon, it is not the murder weapon.

 

[SMK]

The reports say that no DNA of Kercher, Guede, or Sollecito was found in the new trace that was just tested. Massei concluded that the knife with one trace of Meredith, and one trace of Knox was the murder weapon. Now the knife seems to have one trace of Meredith and 2 traces of Knox. I haven't seen any explanation why an extra trace of Knox would mean that the knife is no longer the murder weapon.

From your line of reasoning, I cannot , either.

And yet Moore tweets (and is supported by Dempsey et al ):

@Gman_Moore Great day for Amanda & Raff. DNA results finally remove knife as murder weapon. Bleach myth dead. Absent corruption, case effectively over.

:doh:

 

[SMK]

Perhaps this is how he interpreted evidence when he was employed by the FBI, who knows. It is rather unusual, in my humble opinion, for any investigator to conclude that because a suspect's DNA is on the alleged murder weapon, one must conclude that it is not the murder weapon.

BBM
Yes,
On the one hand, that is indeed rather unusual.

On the other, I know that our FBI is among the most stringent, lauded, meticulous and rigorous investigative departments in existence. They could not have employed Moore in the capacity they did if he were a dolt.

So what is up with this line of reasoning?

Does Moore (and others) believe that those original DNA tests revealing MK's material on the knife were rightly dismissed as unreliable by Hellmann?:waitasec:

 

[otto]

From your line of reasoning, I cannot , either.

And yet Moore tweets (and is supported by Dempsey et al ):
"
@Gman_Moore Great day for Amanda & Raff. DNA results finally remove knife as murder weapon. Bleach myth dead. Absent corruption, case effectively over."

:doh:

So the former FBI employee goes even further, and claims that because the DNA from one of the suspects is on the murder weapon, that suspect must be found not guilty. Again, I have to ask, as an employee of the FBI, did he analyze cases and arrive at conclusions based on a singular fact turned inside out? How bizarre. Anyone that was convicted of a crime based on the testimony of Moore should use his current "logic" as a good reason to have the case re-examined.

 

[SMK]

So the former FBI employee goes even further, and claims that because the DNA from one of the suspects is on the murder weapon, that suspect must be found not guilty. Again, I have to ask, as an employee of the FBI, did he analyze cases and arrive at conclusions based on a singular fact turned inside out? How bizarre. Anyone that was convicted of a crime based on the testimony of Moore should use his current "logic" as a good reason to have the case re-examined.

I would agree that something is off-kilter, but that he surely is going on Hellmann's ruling that the dna was unreliable, and inadmissible, is also clear.

On CNN Washington, Moore (see pic below) is being viewed as a very formidable expert:

(which given his history with the FBI, is understandable. Thus, it must be that within his purview, Hellmann ruled correctly on the MK DNA?)

ETA: This facebook post by Bruce Fisher may further clarify?

Bruce Fischer There is some excellent information on the newly released DNA test. The report references USA sources just like C &V did. Negative controls were done, unlike the discredited Stefanoni test that clamed to find DNA from Meredith on the blade. The latest test confirmed the credibility of C & V as well as further confirming that there is no DNA from the victim present and the knife was not washed.
about an hour ago via mobile · Unlike · 1

 

[ShadyLady]

I can only imagine how much money Knox's father has poured into defending her, I hate how they have made this case political. Like US courts are somehow better than any other country.....remember OJ and Casey Anthony just two off the top of my head.

 

[SMK]

And here is the article Fisher references, below (in the Facebook posting which I ETAed into the Steve Moore post, Otto):

Amanda Knox Forensic Tests Boost Her Defense

(ROME) -- Amanda Knox's legal defense got a boost Thursday when forensic tests on a knife that Italian prosecutors claim was used to kill roommate Meredith Kercher ruled out that Kercher's DNA could be in the spot that was newly tested.

The latest tests check a minute spot -- called a trace -- on the knife where the handle meets the blade, but prosecutors are expected to argue that another trace on the knife which was previously tested indicate the presence of Kercher's DNA.

Knox's defense lawyer Luciano Ghirga said these new tests "pushes even further away the possibility that this was the murder weapon."

The next hearing in the trial is scheduled for Nov. 6, when the forensic police experts will report on their findings.

Their written conclusions were filed in the Florence court Thursday. Italian news agency ANSA is reporting that the tests found the "presence of a[n] extremely small quantity of genetic matter which could derive from one or more female profiles."

In earlier leaked reports, the test had previously determined that Knox's DNA was likely in the trace. But according to the forensic experts comparative tests "led to the exclusion of the presence of any genetic matter belonging to Meredith Kercher...on the DNA trace being tested."

http://www.630wpro.com/common/more....ticle=67916070427611E3B51EFEFDADE6840A&mode=2

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Today is the sixth anniversary of Meredith's murder. I suppose her family and friends will spend some time at the cemetery. Knox has told the world how much better Meredith's family will feel if only they would take her to the cemetery. I suspect that Meredith's family would like to take her to a cemetery, but they have certainly been clear that she is not welcome at Meredith's cemetery.

Today, on the anniversary of the murder, maybe Knox will write that she would like to kill for another pizza, or perhaps she will reminisce about how Meredith "f-ing bled to death". Most likely she will find solace making googly eyes at a new beau, play "stick out your tongue" games, use profanity, and flip a couple of cartwheels in memory of how much she suffered ($3.2 million later) when Meredith was murdered.

RBBM:

lease: Prayers for the Kercher Family on this very sad day ...

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Again, both sides are coming to completely divergent conclusions, based on the same data:

• Steve Moore has tweeted that the DNA results have completely dismissed the knife as the murder weapon,
• while TJMK believes the DNA results now fully uphold conviction.

See what I mean? :waitasec:

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php (top announcement and Oct. 31 article on website page)

RBBM: Steve Moore, his wife, and many others, have made total "fools" of themselves with outlandish statements in support of Knox ...

Seriously though ... Moore is an ex-fbi agent ... :waitasec: ... Ya would think he should know better !

:moo:

 

[SMK]

RBBM: Steve Moore, his wife, and many others, have made total "fools" of themselves with outlandish statements in support of Knox ...

Seriously though ... Moore is an ex-fbi agent ... :waitasec: ... Ya would think he should know better !

:moo:

Yes, although prior to the Hellmann acquittals, Moore, his wife, Fisher and Dempsey were said to be fools when they said all was going so well for the defense. Then the Hellmann ruling went their way, despite the fact that many said it could not, possibly, given the facts.

It really remains to be seen.....I really cannot read the tea leaves on this one....

 

[dog.gone.cute]

I hope the Kerchers will have a day of beautiful memories of Meredith, and find some solace in that, and have faith that the truth will be found through the courts.

lease: Oh I hope so ...

The Kercher Family has handled this entire situation with enormous dignity !

 

[SMK]

From what I have been able to glean from reading:

Allegedly there were 10 negative results from the DNA sample before Stefanoni came up with DNA that was said to possibly belong to Kercher, and no one can verify those results. Thus, the MK DNA was ruled to be unreliable.(?)

This is why Knox's attorneys - in an article boasting of how the Oct 31 lab findings boost Knox's defense - now claim that there is no proof:

Knox's lawyer Carlo Dalla Vedova did not sound surprised about the results of the forensic tests. Remarking on the sixth anniversary of Kercher's murder, which falls Friday, he said,

"We still don't have one shred of proof. It will be six years tomorrow since the murder and we are still debating circumstantial evidence which is highly doubtful. There is not one element of proof in this case and there is nothing new."

http://www.630wpro.com/common/more....ticle=67916070427611E3B51EFEFDADE6840A&mode=2

So it would seem that after the review of the lab material, on which this trial is based, either Hellmann's findings will still stand, or convictions will be based on all the other circumstantial evidence. This last is what remains to be seen, unless I am missing something....

 

[OldSteve]

I don't see that as an issue. Brad Cooper's preferred lawyer was paid for by the state, and he's a foreigner. Every defendant has that right.

forgive, going OT...

If you want good lawyers - they cost. Okay some may get lucky placing themselves at the mercy of legal aid, but I wouldn't like to depend upon that.... and even without a prosecution right to appeal, an innocent person can go to poor house defending himself here... ironically, seems often those who are really guilty are able to get high profile lawyers pro bono

 

[SMK]

The next hearing in the trial is scheduled for Nov. 6, when the forensic police experts will report on their findings.

Their written conclusions were filed in the Florence court Thursday. Italian news agency ANSA is reporting that the tests found the "presence of a[n] extremely small quantity of genetic matter which could derive from one or more female profiles."

In earlier leaked reports, the test had previously determined that Knox's DNA was likely in the trace. But according to the forensic experts comparative tests "led to the exclusion of the presence of any genetic matter belonging to Meredith Kercher...on the DNA trace being tested."

Why do they never mention if the prior MK findings will stand???

 

[OldSteve]

Standing outside now and looking objectively, it would seem that the question at the present juncture is, which side is deluded in its thinking?

In 2009, both pro-innocence and pro-guilt camps believed the verdict would go their way; the evidence and all data was pointing to a conclusion of innocence or guilt, respectively, depending on which side one was on - and it was the pro-innocence camp which was deluded then.

With Hellman, again both camps believed the ruling would go their way: The pro-guilt camp strongly believed the convictions would be upheld, thus it was the pro-guilt camp which was deluded in that case.

Once again, both camps believe the evidence clearly points towards acquittal or conviction, respectively: So the question remains, which camp is now deluded in its thinking?
I confess I am right in the middle , and cannot predict which way this will go...ETA: So we have the Nov 6 court date and ensuing discussion of dna findings, then Nov 25-6, then Dec verdict?

It's too bad there are "sides" to this case. To me that says something about the evidence and investigation.

Poor Meredith - there's no sides there, plain and simple, her young life was taken, and for what?! ... I cannot imagine it, one day you're full of life, with plans and aspirations, then you come home and are greeted with something beyond any of our nightmares.

 

[SMK]

It's too bad there are "sides" to this case. To me that says something about the evidence and investigation.

Poor Meredith - there's no sides there, plain and simple, her young life was taken, and for what?! ... I cannot imagine it, one day you're full of life, with plans and aspirations, then you come home and are greeted with something beyond any of our nightmares.

Yes, it is a shame that this case is so polarized and the opinions so conflicting, that it is nearly impossible to ascertain what is actual and what is assumed. I hope Meredith's family can find peace: They must miss her terribly, and her schooling abroad should never have ended as it did. I hope true justice is served - I just don't know what that is, in this case. (keep going around in circles, the more I read )

 

[SMK]

It will be interesting to hear the discussion on Nov 6:

Whether the case is made well and determined for Stefenoni's finding of MK's DNA on the blade, and Knox''s on the handle; asserting this knife as murder weapon; and all pointing to guilt?

And the defense will counter that the MK dna was undetermined and thus not reliable; that this knife was not the murder weapon....

and so what will the judges (jurors) make of all this, taken together with the circumstantial evidence?

This is really a cliff hanger; no one really knows which way it will swing...