Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#3

[otto]

I'm only basing my post on what's been presented in the media. It does appear that the knife was one of the crucial piece of evidence. I don't know what else they have without a total redo of the first trial in which they were both acquitted based on not enough evidence. I guess I expected this would've been a bombshell but it turned out to be a flop.

All three suspect were convicted of murder. That means that Sollecito and Knox were convicted of murder. They appealed this conviction, but there were serious irregularities in the hearing and the decision was annulled so ... we have Appeal: Take 2.

The first annulled appeal concluded that there was no DNA on the knife. We know that isn't true, so there is no question that there were serious errors in the DNA analysis.

 

[dgfred]

Except that even setting aside the ridiculous testing standards employed on the supposed "MK sample", we might well assume that if it is the murder weapon, the knife was once drenched in the victim's blood. Yet somehow her DNA was cleaned off so thoroughly it could not be properly tested (i.e., twice) while AK's touch DNA was left behind.

Neat trick. Rather akin to the flat clean-up in which AK cleaned up her DNA and that of RS, while leaving copious amounts from Rudy Guede.

Talk about your witch trial! The reasoning used to convict AK and RS would have made old Salem proud!

'ridiculous' ??? That is kind of funny. I think most of the complaints are from not having enough to re-test and the LCN... not the ridiculousness of it. But everyone has an opinion I guess.

'drenched' & 'tested twice'??? Why do you assume the traces are left from one cleaning? The same trace was not tested this time. That is incorrect by you.

'copious amounts' ??? What, like 5 traces? Unless the knife is thrown out (which is highly unlikely), you have that and the bra clasp (not thrown out) with AK and RS's dna. 2 on knife and copious amounts of RS's on bra clasp. They are catching up to 5. You also have 5 (yes 5) places in the flat with AK's dna mixed with Meredith's blood dna and BARE footprints erased in the hallway just outside the victim's room. Probably not fruit juice they were walking around barefoot in either... IMO.

'witch trial' ??? Really, that would be even funnier except for it is for murder.

IMO she has gotten more breaks than she deserved. Both of them. The Hellmann ruling was a travesty IMO and the C and V report has basically been thrown in the bin. It looks to be back on track though.

 

[sherlockh]

While I agree with you on your last point, I don't think it is odd that Amanda talked about a loud scream. I would think that's one of the first things that comes to mind when anyone thinks of a brutal attack. Its not really evidence of esoteric knowledge.

She guessed she heard such a loud scream that she had to cover her ears. She guessed a black guy was involved. She guessed RS had blood on his hands. She guessed she was in the cottage during the murder. All because the police was asking her why she lied about replying to a text from her boss. Yeah right.
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Amanda_Knox's_Confession

 

[jgsmith]

This is a good point. The knife doesn't make sense for other reasons, too.

When we look at the evidence at the crime scene, there are four distinct things that point to the murder weapon: three wounds on Meredith's neck and a knife imprint (in blood) on Meredith's bed.

The knife print is of a penknife sized knife. Two of the three wounds were made by stabbing, and are of a size consistent with the print on the bed. The third wound is of a different nature -- more of a cut or slash.

Logically, one would presume the murder weapon would be a penknife, or other small knife, consistent with all the wounds. Yet ILE presumed this knife was the murder weapon. Since it is inconsistent with 75% of the evidence in the murder room, they have to assume a second knife in order to make it possible. In all probability, there was one knife used and this kitchen knife isn't it.

And...if AK and RS murdered MK, then they did a great job of disposing of their bloody clothes. Problem is, why didn't they dispose of the knife the same way?

Jim


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[otto]

The evidence is the same as from the 1st trial. I don't understand what you are trying to get at???

Maybe found, but not tested like they were ASKED to do. Their report has be thrashed to shreds also... but you probably know that.

This is what Conti and Vecchioti concluded:

 

[dgfred]

The bathmat boogie had a little bit of dna knowledge attached to it also IMO. Really? You are going to tell the police that you went naked from the bathroom to your bedroom on a mat... with your foot occaisionally slipping off. Dang... bad luck that with bare footprints in the hallway later found just outside the victim's room. Red flags were going off like fireworks around the girl.

The flood/mop/evaporated-mostly story isn't quite right either. Almost nobody would believe that there were not enough paper towels/toilet paper/rags/shirts/etc to get up a water spill. Especially one that mostly evaporates in Nov by the next morning. Almost. Dang 2.

Accusing an innocent man couldn't even be avoided by Hellmann. Why didn't she TOTALLY resend this accusation? She didn't. It cost her 4 years in jail.

 

[whoanellie]

I am not sure about percentages, but some false confessions are also false accusations, as was true for the Central Park Five, Karl Fontenot, and the Norfolk Four, among others.

Don't forget Charles Erickson and Ryan Ferguson.

The question of how frequent or rare false confessions/accusations are is really a red herring. No matter how often the do occur, this case was a textbook example of the conditions under which they can and do occur.

 

[otto]

In a perfect world, this is what would happen. However, we do know that false confessions, and accusations, do in fact happen.

There are any number of cases out there. Look at the Central Park jogger rape case. The West Memphis Three. Norfolk Four. A few weeks ago, the radio program "This American Life " did a show about confessions-- one of the stories was a woman suspected of murder. She confessed, although she was innocent.

Is there any real reason to keep these statements in as evidence? Back at the beginning of this trial process, they were thrown out of the murder case against AK. They were only allowed in because of the Calunnia case. Why should they now be used as evidence in the murder trial?

I'd like to see the stats where an innocent person falsely accuses, with elaborate detail, another innocent person of murder. We've seen the stats for false confessions, but that has nothing to do with this case. This is about false accusations.

 

[dgfred]

Hey otto. Don't know why you are showing me that but blood was not the question.
I don't value their findings very much... and IMO they have been knocked away by the Supreme Courts rulings.

Wasn't both the original trace for Meredith too small to re-test and the bra-clasp messed up in storage? I recall there being abundant dna of RS/male on the bra-clasp.

 

[Nova]

'ridiculous' ??? That is kind of funny. I think most of the complaints are from not having enough to re-test and the LCN... not the ridiculousness of it. But everyone has an opinion I guess.

'drenched' & 'tested twice'??? Why do you assume the traces are left from one cleaning? The same trace was not tested this time. That is incorrect by you.

'copious amounts' ??? What, like 5 traces? Unless the knife is thrown out (which is highly unlikely), you have that and the bra clasp (not thrown out) with AK and RS's dna. 2 on knife and copious amounts of RS's on bra clasp. They are catching up to 5. You also have 5 (yes 5) places in the flat with AK's dna mixed with Meredith's blood dna and BARE footprints erased in the hallway just outside the victim's room. Probably not fruit juice they were walking around barefoot in either... IMO.

'witch trial' ??? Really, that would be even funnier except for it is for murder.

IMO she has gotten more breaks than she deserved. Both of them. The Hellmann ruling was a travesty IMO and the C and V report has basically been thrown in the bin. It looks to be back on track though.

You completely misunderstood what I posted. Try again, if you care.

As has been pointed out numerous times, wiping up a bloody footprint leaves a smear, not an invisible footprint.

 

[otto]

The police is not the prosecution, and I take anything that comes from the Daily Mail with a grain of salt. Oh so now it is an open question? It was stated as fact that the medical staff was lying to her for some reason.

It's been a while since we had some good Daily Mail content:

"For four weeks he had quietly tolerated her wild mood swings, crass sexual innuendo and complete unwillingness to do any work so terminating her employment was, on the face of it, a wise decision.

... For just a week later, he believes, 20-year-old Amanda took her revenge by framing the 38-year-old Perugian club owner for the murder of her British friend, Meredith Kercher, whose half-naked body was discovered in a pool of blood by police on November 2.

Amanda painted him as a violent sexual predator who had raped the 21-year-old student before savagely slitting her throat and left him to languish in jail for a fortnight for a crime he didn't commit.

... the infamous "Foxy Knoxy", and tells how the seemingly quintessential American turned into a tormented monster eaten up by anger towards both himself and Meredith.

... To be evil you have to have a soul. "Amanda doesn't. She's empty; dead inside. She's the ultimate actress, able to switch her emotions on and off in an instant. I don't believe a word she says. Everything that comes out of her mouth is a lie. But those lies have stained me for ever.

... I didn't realise it at the time, but now I see that she was jealous. She wanted to be the queen bee, and as the weeks passed, it became clear that she wasn't. She hated anyone stealing her limelight ? and that included Meredith."

... she was more interested in making herself available to his male customers than making herself useful at the bar.

"Every time I looked round she was flirting with a different guy," he says.

... She just felt so threatened by other women." Economics graduate Aleksandra adds: "Amanda was so cold. She seemed like a girl who would do anything to get her way, and her man."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Lumumba-reveals-framed-Merediths-murder.html

 

[dgfred]

And...if AK and RS murdered MK, then they did a great job of disposing of their bloody clothes. Problem is, why didn't they dispose of the knife the same way?

Jim


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They had at least from the murder until the evening of the 5th.

The knife was on the landlord's inventory list.
The knife was a trophy of some sort.
Didn't think they would be suspected.
Cleaned thoroughly and put back.
??????

I don't really know how a killer(s) would think... especially if they are smoking it up every chance they get. RS claimed he smoked a joint every time he was anxious... and he seems an anxious type of person. That was without even being a suspect in a murder.

 

[Nova]

I'd like to see the stats where an innocent person falsely accuses, with elaborate detail, another innocent person of murder. We've seen the stats for false confessions, but that has nothing to do with this case. This is about false accusations.

By definition, every false confession is also an accusation of an innocent person. Think about it.

But we know of numerous cases (WM3, Ryan Ferguson) where false testimony implicated a third party.

 

[otto]

Hey otto. Don't know why you are showing me that but blood was not the question.
I don't value their findings very much... and IMO they have been knocked away by the Supreme Courts rulings.

Wasn't both the original trace for Meredith too small to re-test and the bra-clasp messed up in storage? I recall there being abundant dna of RS/male on the bra-clasp.

It was just an opportune time to post the fact that C&V concluded that there was no DNA on the knife.

 

[song22]

Ok I just spent a long time rereading. I am back to being convinced of guilt. beyond the lying and weird behavior, I see the bra clasp, the footprints, the staged scene, the mixed DNA.

I was also very interested to learn more about AK's dad. It sounds to me like he was a very angry father figure, refused to accept his responsibilities in life, and probably has some kind of mental health issue which we now see echoes of in AK. This really explains to me her odd behavior and hyper sexuality. I am back to thrill kill scenario and think for whatever reason they pulled Guede in as another player, maybe because he had a propensity for violence and pushing the limits. they wanted to kill someone that night and they knew Guede would go along with it too. MOOO

 

[Linda7NJ]

I'd like to see the stats where an innocent person falsely accuses, with elaborate detail, another innocent person of murder. We've seen the stats for false confessions, but that has nothing to do with this case. This is about false accusations.

Exactly, there was no confession... Just your normal blatant lies of the "I didn't do it" nature from a criminal cornered.


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[Amber29]

Ok I just spent a long time rereading. I am back to being convinced of guilt. beyond the lying and weird behavior, I see the bra clasp, the footprints, the staged scene, the mixed DNA.

I was also very interested to learn more about AK's dad. It sounds to me like he was a very angry father figure, refused to accept his responsibilities in life, and probably has some kind of mental health issue which we now see echoes of in AK. This really explains to me her odd behavior and hyper sexuality. I am back to thrill kill scenario and think for whatever reason they pulled Guede in as another player, maybe because he had a propensity for violence and pushing the limits. they wanted to kill someone that night and they knew Guede would go along with it too. MOOO

I honestly think they were messed up on drugs that night. I believe that none of them have clear memory of what actually happened. I think the "staging" was done when they had sobered up some.IMO

There's just too many things to you have to over look to see them as innocent. Inconsistencies all over the place, the list is so very long.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Hey otto. Don't know why you are showing me that but blood was not the question.
I don't value their findings very much... and IMO they have been knocked away by the Supreme Courts rulings.

Wasn't both the original trace for Meredith too small to re-test and the bra-clasp messed up in storage? I recall there being abundant dna of RS/male on the bra-clasp.

Raffaele's DNA on the clasp was borderline low template (not abundant at all--Tagliabracchi's testimony goes into this), and between 2 to 4 other males contributed DNA to the clasp. Someone in Stefanoni's laboratory stored the clasp in the presence of a water based solution. That is why the clasp had rusted by the time that Conti and Vecchiotti examined it. Storing the clasp in a closed container with water is a little like storing a cassette tape next to a very strong magnet.

 

[otto]

So ... elephant in the room ... What's this about Knox's fluid being embedded in the handle of the knife?

"At one point the judge stopped a line of questioning by Knox’s Rome attorney Carlo Dalla Vedova, who was asking why the RIS described Knox’s DNA as “fluids” when a prior expert had said the trace did not come from blood. Nencini said: That question was not put to the RIS by this court, it was not their job to determine that. The other experts’ reports are in the case files for everyone to read, he noted, adding: “We cannot put words in the mouth of this expert that were said by another expert.”

Fluids would mean saliva, blood, or urine ... did I miss anything? Why would Knox's fluid, such as saliva, blood, or urine be on the knife? I think we were all thinking skin cells until now, but fluids, mentioned in court, is not skin cells.

http://thefreelancedesk.com/front_featured/amanda-knox-appeal-2/

 

[jgsmith]

I honestly think they were messed up on drugs that night. I believe that none of them have clear memory of what actually happened. I think the "staging" was done when they had sobered up some.IMO

There's just too many things to you have to over look to see them as innocent. Inconsistencies all over the place, the list is so very long.

The drug AK and RS were "messed up on" was pot, which has the complete opposite effect of this. You are more likely to grab a bag of Doritos, watch a 3 stooges movie and have giggle fits. This same drug is now legal in 2 states, and most likely a lot more soon.

Jim


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