Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#3

[jgsmith]

You mean the letter that she finished with this:

"2. I also know that the fact that I can't fully recall the events that I claim took place at Raffaele's home during the time that Meredith was murdered is incriminating. And I stand by my statements that I made last night about events that could have taken place in my home with Patrik, but I want to make very clear that these events seem more unreal to me that what I said before, that I stayed at Raffaele's house.
3. I'm very confused at this time. My head is full of contrasting ideas and I know I can be frustrating to work with for this reason. But I also want to tell the truth as best I can. Everything I have said in regards to my involvement in Meredith's death, even though it is contrasting, are the best truth that I have been able to think."

I guess if you consider that a recant, then she recanted.
I do not.

She probably won't be writing apology cards for Hallmark, but when you take in the whole of the situation, it seems credible to me. She had just arrived in a foreign country, all her friends were new, she had a new boyfriend, she was stoned, her roommate had just been murdered, she was arrested, put in jail in a foreign country and accused of murder. That's a lot to take in. Some people get bent out of shape if there's no milk for their corn flakes.


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[jgsmith]

I think if you really dug deep (not so deep actually) you would find that RS's history was far from 'common' regarding what he had been monitored for and his possible knife fetish/pranks/and drug use. Not that any of that makes him a murderer... but they are red flags IMO.

I also don't think that smoking a joint of whatever it was... every time he got anxious counts as experimenting. Not that it is the worst thing somebody could be doing but it is not experimenting IMO. Plus... he might need a pick-me-up with all that dope smoking :scared: .

I've heard a few people refer to this "other side" of RS. Where can I read more?


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[sherlockh]

In this case, I think people (myself included) have a hard time pinning so much, on so little DNA. When you add to this the improbability of carrying a bloody knife back to RS's apartment, the questions start to ask themselves.

Jim

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A little DNA is all it takes IMO. I doubt they walked the streets with a knife dripping blood. There is evidence of a cleaning taking place in the bathroom in the cottage. I think the knife was at least rinsed.

 

[sherlockh]

The CCTV was 10 mins fast, granted. But I'm not sure how you got to this proving MK was not on the images. I think you went from fact to fiction.

Jim

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Because we know from witness statements that MK arrived at about 9pm. The images on the CCTV clock showed someone going to the gate at 8:51pm which would then be 8:41pm actual time.

 

[jgsmith]

The dna is ok in the case of RG... but not for AK?

Why is the knife bloody on the way back? A wipe with a towel, shirt or anything gets most of it off... and they probably didn't just leave it soaking in blood at any point. One major stab with it in the neck and leaving immediately doesn't leave time for it IMO.

What other choices would they have 'IF' they used the knife to kill Meredith in your opinion? You have a knife that is connected to you (however remotely) that you just killed someone with... what do you do???

JMO=
A. Leave it there- no
B. Throw it away on the way back home- chances with being found-- no
C. Take back, clean REAL good, and put back in drawer- hmmmm
D. Take home, clean, and then throw away- slight/medium chance of maid or landlord remembering it-- probably no
E. Take home, clean, and throw away. Buy a new one for cover- chance caught by receipt or camera-- no
F. Other???

I take C as you see. :twocents:

First, on RG's vs AK's DNA:
- there's waaaay more DNA from RG
- bloody handprint
- bloody footprints

Now for the knife:
- if they did murder MK, and the knife was the murder weapon, they would have thrown it into a lake
- what happened to MK's phones? Why throw those away, but not the murder weapon?
- and where are their bloody clothes? And why wouldn't the murder weapon have been thrown away with them?



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[jgsmith]

I don't know... all that seems fairly logical to me even if I was high/drunk. Plus, I didn't say he/they got stoned all day... RS basically did.

1- the knife was part of the plan to scare/haze/intimidate Meredith... or kill.
2- you have at least 2 people of similar or equal size with knives and another well-built individual added to that.
3- throw a huge rock into a window and then throw clothes around... sounds drunk to me.
4- AK probably knew exactly where Meredith kept her money and cards.
5- IMO they went back later to clean up their footprints and wipe down everything... maybe they had sobered up alot by that time. I would have.
6- Throw away phones when taking the back-way home? Of course.
7- Wipe off the knife with a rag/shirt/towel/toilet paper and really scrub it later on that night. Check.
8- They had from the murder until the night of the 5th to dispose of evidence if needed.

You seem ok as you are... you don't need the stuff. lease:

Given the amount of blood at the crime scene, how do you think they got back to RS's apartment, without being noticed as being bloody? And why have the bloody clothes never turned up?


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[jgsmith]

Sure.
RG : didn't stage the break-in or the body, clean-up or probably stab Meredith IMO.

IMO: whatever was the plan (kill or scare/intimidate/haze/etc) RG was the dupe. Either RG was there because of AK (party, fancy, prank) or something she implied could happen possibly between him (date/fake rape) and Meredith. I never have thought he would have originally gone along with murdering anyone. I think he was brought to place blame on- possibilities from stealing money, saying Meredith wanted him to fake-assault her, or even if something really bad happened.

*If you take him completely out of the picture, but leave AK and RS with the plan of the two I see likely (kill or prank/haze/intimidate/bully) you still have the attempt escalating probably to murder IMO.

Thanks for the explanation. This seems a little out there to me. They were stoned, but planned and arranged for a fall guy before they even got to the cottage. I think I saw this on Columbo once.


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[otto]

I thought AK wrote a letter to the police the day after she implicated PL, recanting.

Jim


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That didn't happen. She wrote a letter stating that she stood behind what she said about Patrick.

 

[redheadedgal]

That didn't happen. She wrote a letter stating that she stood behind what she said about Patrick.

from her nov. 7th letter to police:

I was very stressed at the time and I really did think he was the murderer. But now I remember I can't know who was the murderer because I didn't return back to the house.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Amanda_Knox's_November_7th_Letter_to_Police

 

[otto]

from her nov. 7th letter to police:

I was very stressed at the time and I really did think he was the murderer. But now I remember I can't know who was the murderer because I didn't return back to the house.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Amanda_Knox's_November_7th_Letter_to_Police

I understand that Knox suddenly realized that by implicating Patrick, she also placed herself at the murder. That is clearly the after thought. At the same time, she stated on November 6 that she stood behind her statements about Patrick. At no time did Knox come forward and clearly state that she lied when she accused Patrick of murder. What she does in her November 7 statement is attempt to say that she wasn't at the scene of the murder, which is quite different than admitting that she lied about Patrick. She's only trying to distance herself from the murder.

Below is quite an elaborate lie about Patrick.

November 6, 2007

"In my mind I saw Patrik in flashes of blurred images. I saw him near the basketball court. I saw him at my front door. I saw myself cowering in the kitchen with my hands over my ears because in my head I could hear Meredith screaming. But I've said this many times so as to make myself clear: these things seem unreal to me, like a dream, and I am unsure if they are real things that happened or are just dreams my head has made to try to answer the questions in my head and the questions I am being asked.

... And I stand by my statements that I made last night about events that could have taken place in my home with Patrik, but I want to make very clear that these events seem more unreal to me that what I said before, that I stayed at Raffaele's house."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1570225/Transcript-of-Amanda-Knoxs-note.html

 

[Linda7NJ]

I understand that Knox suddenly realized that by implicating Patrick, she also placed herself at the murder. That is clearly the after thought. At the same time, she stated on November 6 that she stood behind her statements about Patrick. At no time did Knox come forward and clearly state that she lied when she accused Patrick of murder. What she does in her November 7 statement is attempt to say that she wasn't at the scene of the murder, which is quite different than admitting that she lied about Patrick. She's only trying to distance herself from the murder.

Below is quite an elaborate lie about Patrick.

November 6, 2007

"In my mind I saw Patrik in flashes of blurred images. I saw him near the basketball court. I saw him at my front door. I saw myself cowering in the kitchen with my hands over my ears because in my head I could hear Meredith screaming. But I've said this many times so as to make myself clear: these things seem unreal to me, like a dream, and I am unsure if they are real things that happened or are just dreams my head has made to try to answer the questions in my head and the questions I am being asked.

... And I stand by my statements that I made last night about events that could have taken place in my home with Patrik, but I want to make very clear that these events seem more unreal to me that what I said before, that I stayed at Raffaele's house."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1570225/Transcript-of-Amanda-Knoxs-note.html

It's quite the "word salad" ... Reminiscent of so many psychopaths...Jodi's lies come to mind. They (psychopaths) tend to say a whole lot of nothing.
That what I see when I listen to Amanda.
All IMO

Basically she's saying I want to go back to the first story I told about not being there.. But if you prove I was there.. I didn't do anything wrong, if I was there, I had my fingers in my ears. Eyeroll,

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[redheadedgal]

1.Nope I don't think PL lied on the stand and amanda didn't recant, please recanting would've been saying out loud over and over that you lied! She and her mother did nothing to help PL.
2.answered this in another post,
3. We will agree to disagree on the DNA evidence.
4. The double standard is saying lack of Amanda's DNA in Meredith's room means she wasn't there. So why can't it be used to say RG wasn't in Filomenas room. Especially when you consider the mixed sample of Amanda and Meredith in Filomenas room. That sample is just another piece that people have to explain away to see them as innocent.

1. she recanted. see my post above this one. why is it only a (narrow) definition of recanting ("saying it out loud over and over that you lied") needs to be the one applied here?
2. thanks smk for the updated info!
3. deleted
4. you said it was muddy out and RG would've left evidence of his scaling the wall if he had done so, and b/c there was no evidence of him on the wall, he therefore didn't climb it. but, you want to put AK in a room where there was no trace of her... that was the double standard i replied to. as for filomena's room? wasn't a shoeprint matching RG's nikes found in there? see photo and description @ link below

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2009/09/12/amanda-knox-murder-trial-taking-aim-at-rudy-guede/

 

[redheadedgal]

I understand that Knox suddenly realized that by implicating Patrick, she also placed herself at the murder. That is clearly the after thought. At the same time, she stated on November 6 that she stood behind her statements about Patrick. At no time did Knox come forward and clearly state that she lied when she accused Patrick of murder. What she does in her November 7 statement is attempt to say that she wasn't at the scene of the murder, which is quite different than admitting that she lied about Patrick. She's only trying to distance herself from the murder.

her words, meaning and intent are clear imo.

 

[otto]

1. she recanted. see my post above this one. why is it only a (narrow) definition of recanting ("saying it out loud over and over") needs to be the one applied here?
2. thanks smk for the updated info!
3. again-- please explain the other 3-4 profiles found on the bra clasp -- thanks!
4. you said it was muddy out and RG would've left evidence of his scaling the wall if he had done so, and b/c there was no evidence of him on the wall, he therefore didn't climb it. but, you want to put AK in a room where there was no trace of her... that was the double standard i replied to. as for filomena's room? wasn't a shoeprint matching RG's nikes found there? see photo and description @ link below

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2009/09/12/amanda-knox-murder-trial-taking-aim-at-rudy-guede/

What did Knox recant? She implicated Patrick and said that she was not present during the murder, but she stood behind her statements about Patrick.

There was no evidence of Guede in Filomina's bedroom, although it is quite possible that bloggers will say otherwise.

 

[redheadedgal]

What did Knox recant? She implicated Patrick and said that she was not present during the murder, but she stood behind her statements about Patrick.

There was no evidence of Guede in Filomina's bedroom, although it is quite possible that bloggers will say otherwise.

i'm not going to go round and round on this.

the magazine oggi reported it, not a blogger. if this is incorrect it only proves that one can't believe everything one reads (like post #511 :drumroll.

 

[redheadedgal]

no evidence of RG in filomena's bdrm? how about evidence of filomena's bdrm on guede?

guede had fragment of glass wedged in his shoe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:M...t_of_glass_from_the_window_wedged_in_his_shoe

A fragment of glass from a broken window was found wedged in the tread of his shoe
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...jailed-Knox-and-Sollecito-to-stand-trial.html

 

[jgsmith]

It's quite the "word salad" ... Reminiscent of so many psychopaths...Jodi's lies come to mind. They (psychopaths) tend to say a whole lot of nothing.
That what I see when I listen to Amanda.
All IMO

Basically she's saying I want to go back to the first story I told about not being there.. But if you prove I was there.. I didn't do anything wrong, if I was there, I had my fingers in my ears. Eyeroll,

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What reason did AK have for saying this? I may be wrong, but I thought this came out before anyone suggested she was there.


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[Amber29]

She probably won't be writing apology cards for Hallmark, but when you take in the whole of the situation, it seems credible to me. She had just arrived in a foreign country, all her friends were new, she had a new boyfriend, she was stoned, her roommate had just been murdered, she was arrested, put in jail in a foreign country and accused of murder. That's a lot to take in. Some people get bent out of shape if there's no milk for their corn flakes.


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Would it feel like a recant if you were Patrick Lumumba?

I get it that you feel like she was scared girl but her mom arrived the next day and she did nothing either to help Amanda clear the innocent mans names. We can blame the police for holding him all we want. Were they supposed to free a man that someone had implicated in a brutal murder? They released him when his alibi checked out and realized amanda was lying.

Anyways we shouldn't even be arguing over this she was convicted of her crime against Patrick and its final.

 

[Amber29]

no evidence of RG in filomena's bdrm? how about evidence of filomena's bdrm on guede?

guede had fragment of glass wedged in his shoe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:M...t_of_glass_from_the_window_wedged_in_his_shoe

A fragment of glass from a broken window was found wedged in the tread of his shoe
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...jailed-Knox-and-Sollecito-to-stand-trial.html

Reading that they quote a blogger as their source.
In the same link you provide they go on to say a source of the glass fragment found in Meredith's room can't be confirmed.
Also Rudy Guede was not charged with breaking and entering and that has been confirmed by cassation.
<modsnip>
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/The_Staged_Burglary

 

[Amber29]

i'm not going to go round and round on this.

the magazine oggi reported it, not a blogger. if this is incorrect it only proves that one can't believe everything one reads (like post #511 :drumroll.

It's true we can't believe everything that is reported by the media in this case because there's been a ton a mis information that wasn't evidence. A huge PR spin being the biggest reason for this.
The Micheli,Massei,Hellmann,galati appeal and cassation reports are the best sources for evidence.