Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#3

[song22]

For me, it isn't at all a matter of how many men she happened to sleep with in Seattle or Italy. It is true that women do control their own sexuality and just because a woman has many sexual partners does not mean that she is mentally ill or depraved enough to kill someone. sexual freedom is not in itself pathological. But, hyper sexuality is certainly a symptom of some mental health conditions and some personality disorders. It appears to me that AK crosses many boundaries in her behavior. I have known many sexually liberated women who were still respectful of other peoples boundaries and who understood what was appropriate behavior and what wasn't. but I have also known women who were abused as children or who had a mental health/personality disorder who used sexuality to get attention, to have power over others, or to just meet some kind of need which would be better filled with meds or therapy. this is not authentic sexual freedom, and it is what I see in AK's behavior. I think these comments about how she was with men are revealing as to her state of mind. I don't think she was in a healthy place at all. JMO

 

[jgsmith]

From my memory there's no evidence of actual sex although I could be wrong and don't want to go into details of her autopsy.
Yes you mentioned he confessed. In his confession did he include throwing that rock and climbing through a window?
Strange that he left Filomenas and Amanda's laptops in their rooms.

I think when you confess to murder, you're allowed one free B&E.

Jim


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[Monzoo]

I will try to answer and can give you links to find info regarding this if you want to PM me.

RS had previous 'problems' with drugs... cocaine I believe.

RS in his initial police interviews states he liked to smoke joints and had all that day... when he was 'anxious'. It had to be alot because both can not remember what they did in addition to there not being any evidence of anything they did. Is this true or were they sitting there stoned off their gourds?

Mixing pot with other stuff can be dangerous. Might not have planned originally to 'go find someone to kill'. Or one might have and the other didn't??
Or two did and one didn't??? Nobody is telling exactly so far.
Maybe they were drunk and stoned, or who-knows-what.

It seems like we have different ideas about what having a problem with drugs means. I believe Raffaele wrote in his book about experimenting with some harder drugs -- not all all uncommon in people in their early 20s. Experimenting is just that: taking it to try it out. It certainly doesn't mean he became addicted, or went around high all the time.

There simply isn't any evidence at all that they did anything other than smoke hash on the night in question.

 

[Amber29]

Why isn't the "murder scene" all of Perugia? Or all of Europe?

MK was killed in her bedroom, a space notably lacking evidence of AK's or RS' presence. You can't just extend the "murder scene" until you finally find the DNA you want to find.

Wether you believe them to be innocent or guilty saying the whole cottage is the crime scene is not an exaggeration.
A staged break in or a real burglary had happened, a girl was murdered in her house, blood and evidence was throughout that house. If the whole cottage isn't the crime scene why was is sealed off and treated as such? Evidence of a "clean up" does exist. Just because Meredith's door was shut and locked does not limit her room to the crime scene.
If you want to say MKs room lacking evidence of amanda means she wasnt there, then the same can be said of RG when it comes to Filomenas room. We've been over this double standard. Out of 90 samples tested for DNA in Meredith's room 4 were attributed to RG and 1 to RS. So it's an exaggeration to say RGs DNA was all over the place as well.

 

[dgfred]

When Jodi did it, I think we called it "crazy"


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:seeya: HEY YOU! Hope you are behaving... but not too much.

This is another reason I wonder why more emphasis is not put on the flood/mop & bathmat boogie stories... they are so 'crazy' in a way, much like the lost camera/gas cans/self-defense stories. We even have the out-of-character phone turning-off too. Both Arias and AK seemed to have been very accustomed to talking/acting their way out of trouble/problems... or at least thought they could.

All the best to you and yours.

 

[dgfred]

I think when you confess to murder, you're allowed one free B&E.

Jim


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But he didn't confess to murder... and never has.

That post did make me giggle tho... thanks for that .

 

[Amber29]

I think when you confess to murder, you're allowed one free B&E.

Jim


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Maybe you should find RGs "confession" and show me where he actually confesses and what all he actually confesses to? I don't understand why you say he would confess to a murder and not to a simple B&E.

Again I feel the need to say I'm not defending RG here. He's guilty I have no doubt in that, I just don't feel like he was alone.

 

[jgsmith]

1.Nope I don't think PL lied on the stand and amanda didn't recant, please recanting would've been saying out loud over and over that you lied! She and her mother did nothing to help PL.
2.answered this in another post,
3. We will agree to disagree on the DNA evidence.
4. The double standard is saying lack of Amanda's DNA in Meredith's room means she wasn't there. So why can't it be used to say RG wasn't in Filomenas room. Especially when you consider the mixed sample of Amanda and Meredith in Filomenas room. That sample is just another piece that people have to explain away to see them as innocent.

I thought AK wrote a letter to the police the day after she implicated PL, recanting.

Jim


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[jgsmith]

*Snipped*. Why not reason the other way around? Meredith's DNA on the knife proves that the knife was at the cottage and most likely involved in the murder. Of course, this is ridiculous. The whole murder is ridiculous. I don't understand this kind of reasoning where evidence is simply dismissed because somebody else would have done things differently. JMO.

In this case, I think people (myself included) have a hard time pinning so much, on so little DNA. When you add to this the improbability of carrying a bloody knife back to RS's apartment, the questions start to ask themselves.

Jim


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[Amber29]

I thought AK wrote a letter to the police the day after she implicated PL, recanting.

Jim


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You mean the letter that she finished with this:

"2. I also know that the fact that I can't fully recall the events that I claim took place at Raffaele's home during the time that Meredith was murdered is incriminating. And I stand by my statements that I made last night about events that could have taken place in my home with Patrik, but I want to make very clear that these events seem more unreal to me that what I said before, that I stayed at Raffaele's house.
3. I'm very confused at this time. My head is full of contrasting ideas and I know I can be frustrating to work with for this reason. But I also want to tell the truth as best I can. Everything I have said in regards to my involvement in Meredith's death, even though it is contrasting, are the best truth that I have been able to think."

I guess if you consider that a recant, then she recanted.
I do not.

 

[dgfred]

It seems like we have different ideas about what having a problem with drugs means. I believe Raffaele wrote in his book about experimenting with some harder drugs -- not all all uncommon in people in their early 20s. Experimenting is just that: taking it to try it out. It certainly doesn't mean he became addicted, or went around high all the time.

There simply isn't any evidence at all that they did anything other than smoke hash on the night in question.

I think if you really dug deep (not so deep actually) you would find that RS's history was far from 'common' regarding what he had been monitored for and his possible knife fetish/pranks/and drug use. Not that any of that makes him a murderer... but they are red flags IMO.

I also don't think that smoking a joint of whatever it was... every time he got anxious counts as experimenting. Not that it is the worst thing somebody could be doing but it is not experimenting IMO. Plus... he might need a pick-me-up with all that dope smoking :scared: .

 

[jgsmith]

It was proven that the CCTV was 10 minutes fast by a check with the internet time. You can't get any more accurate than that. This excludes the possibility that Meredith was on the CCTV images. This was mostly likely Knox arriving at the cottage IMO. I don't think the guy walking in the parking garage was Guede. He looks very different. There are other images showing only someone's shoes crossing the street. I think this could have been Guede looking around for the guys downstairs as he said himself, but you can't definitely state that it was him just based on shoes.
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Mauro_Barbadonri's_Testimony_(English)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tH-klo4nGQ

The CCTV was 10 mins fast, granted. But I'm not sure how you got to this proving MK was not on the images. I think you went from fact to fiction.

Jim


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[Amber29]

I thought AK wrote a letter to the police the day after she implicated PL, recanting.

Jim


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And add to what I already quoted
"I'm trying, I really am, because I'm scared for myself. I know I didn't kill Meredith. That's all I know for sure. In these flashbacks that I'm having, I see Patrik as the murderer, but the way the truth feels in my mind, there is no way for me to have known because I don't remember FOR SURE if I was at my house that night. The questions that need answering, at least for how I'm thinking are:"
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Amanda_Knox's_Confession

Read all for yourself if you feel like it.

 

[jgsmith]

I will try to answer and can give you links to find info regarding this if you want to PM me.

RS had previous 'problems' with drugs... cocaine I believe.

RS in his initial police interviews states he liked to smoke joints and had all that day... when he was 'anxious'. It had to be alot because both can not remember what they did in addition to there not being any evidence of anything they did. Is this true or were they sitting there stoned off their gourds?

Mixing pot with other stuff can be dangerous. Might not have planned originally to 'go find someone to kill'. Or one might have and the other didn't??
Or two did and one didn't??? Nobody is telling exactly so far.
Maybe they were drunk and stoned, or who-knows-what.

Let's say this is true, and they were stoned all day. Let's even add the possibility they mixed it with something else. Fine. How do you marry this up with the attention to detail required to:
- bring the knife to the cottage
- murder someone who was presumably sober and fit...all without getting injured themselves
- stage a break-in
- find and steal the money
- clean up their DNA, but leave RG's
- dispose of the phones
- bring the bloody knife back to RS's
- clean the knife
- dispose of their bloody clothes (which have never been found)

I want me some of what they were on.

Jim



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[dgfred]

In this case, I think people (myself included) have a hard time pinning so much, on so little DNA. When you add to this the improbability of carrying a bloody knife back to RS's apartment, the questions start to ask themselves.

Jim


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The dna is ok in the case of RG... but not for AK?

Why is the knife bloody on the way back? A wipe with a towel, shirt or anything gets most of it off... and they probably didn't just leave it soaking in blood at any point. One major stab with it in the neck and leaving immediately doesn't leave time for it IMO.

What other choices would they have 'IF' they used the knife to kill Meredith in your opinion? You have a knife that is connected to you (however remotely) that you just killed someone with... what do you do???

JMO=
A. Leave it there- no
B. Throw it away on the way back home- chances with being found-- no
C. Take back, clean REAL good, and put back in drawer- hmmmm
D. Take home, clean, and then throw away- slight/medium chance of maid or landlord remembering it-- probably no
E. Take home, clean, and throw away. Buy a new one for cover- chance caught by receipt or camera-- no
F. Other???

I take C as you see. :twocents:

 

[Amber29]

Let's say this is true, and they were stoned all day. Let's even add the possibility they mixed it with something else. Fine. How do you marry this up with the attention to detail required to:
- bring the knife to the cottage
- murder someone who was presumably sober and fit...all without getting injured themselves
- stage a break-in
- find and steal the money
- clean up their DNA, but leave RG's
- dispose of the phones
- bring the bloody knife back to RS's
- clean the knife
- dispose of their bloody clothes (which have never been found)

I want me some of what they were on.


Jim



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Murdering someone who was fit? It was 3 vs 1
And most people believe they didn't do the clean right after. It is more plausible to think they left and returned sometime later to cleanup/stage break in. In that time they could've come down/sobered from their high. Either way there was nothing perfect about their clean up and staging. So the argument fails.

 

[dgfred]

Let's say this is true, and they were stoned all day. Let's even add the possibility they mixed it with something else. Fine. How do you marry this up with the attention to detail required to:
- bring the knife to the cottage
- murder someone who was presumably sober and fit...all without getting injured themselves
- stage a break-in
- find and steal the money
- clean up their DNA, but leave RG's
- dispose of the phones
- bring the bloody knife back to RS's
- clean the knife
- dispose of their bloody clothes (which have never been found)

I want me some of what they were on.

Jim



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I don't know... all that seems fairly logical to me even if I was high/drunk. Plus, I didn't say he/they got stoned all day... RS basically did.

1- the knife was part of the plan to scare/haze/intimidate Meredith... or kill.
2- you have at least 2 people of similar or equal size with knives and another well-built individual added to that.
3- throw a huge rock into a window and then throw clothes around... sounds drunk to me.
4- AK probably knew exactly where Meredith kept her money and cards.
5- IMO they went back later to clean up their footprints and wipe down everything... maybe they had sobered up alot by that time. I would have.
6- Throw away phones when taking the back-way home? Of course.
7- Wipe off the knife with a rag/shirt/towel/toilet paper and really scrub it later on that night. Check.
8- They had from the murder until the night of the 5th to dispose of evidence if needed.

You seem ok as you are... you don't need the stuff. lease:

 

[jgsmith]

IMO from the other evidence- even if RG wasn't in the cottage... there is the probability that Meredith would have still been killed.

Well this is a new twist. Can you elaborate?


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[dgfred]

Well this is a new twist. Can you elaborate?


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Sure.
RG : didn't stage the break-in or the body, clean-up or probably stab Meredith IMO.

IMO: whatever was the plan (kill or scare/intimidate/haze/etc) RG was the dupe. Either RG was there because of AK (party, fancy, prank) or something she implied could happen possibly between him (date/fake rape) and Meredith. I never have thought he would have originally gone along with murdering anyone. I think he was brought to place blame on- possibilities from stealing money, saying Meredith wanted him to fake-assault her, or even if something really bad happened.

*If you take him completely out of the picture, but leave AK and RS with the plan of the two I see likely (kill or prank/haze/intimidate/bully) you still have the attempt escalating probably to murder IMO.

 

[jgsmith]

Maybe you should find RGs "confession" and show me where he actually confesses and what all he actually confesses to? I don't understand why you say he would confess to a murder and not to a simple B&E.

Again I feel the need to say I'm not defending RG here. He's guilty I have no doubt in that, I just don't feel like he was alone.

As others have pointed out, I am wrong about the confession. He confessed that he was there when she was killed. Evidence tells the rest of the story. My bad.

As for the B&E, aside from trying to lighten things up a bit, my point was that if you're up for murder, nobody is worrying about the break-in.


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