Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#3

[otto]

So just 2 or 3 were questioning AK and not 12. RS dropped AK's alibi, and AK suddenly accused Patrick after they discovered her text message. RS never said she had gone to the cottage. The police didn't ask if she was at the cottage (They asked if she went out to meet Patrick). How in the world did she imagine that she was at the cottage hearing Patrick kill Meredith?

Guede, Knox and a couple of neighbors all heard a loud scream. They independently reported this information, without corroboration. I don't think that there can be any doubt that Meredith screamed loud. Guede, Knox and a neighbor independently reported that more than one person was involved in the murder. Knox knew that Meredith was near the closet and that she bled to death before there was a public report. Meredith was under a duvet and, when the bedroom door was opened, Knox was in the kitchen, next to the exit. In fact, Meredith had died near the closet (blood pooling) and she did bleed to death, but she was moved, and found, a few feet from the closet, lying on her back with a pillow under her hips.

Knox volunteered that there was a scream, that more than one person was involved, that Meredith bled to death, that she died near the closet. Knox interfered with the crime scene by suggesting that Meredith routinely locked her bedroom door, and she interfered with a police investigation by sending police on a wild goose chase after Patrick, to his severe detriment.

 

[otto]

So ... apparently the November 7 letter from Knox is in question: Did she, or did she not, exonerate Patrick in the letter? Apparently the letter has been printed in a story about Knox. Is there no one that can take a shot of the letter in it's entirety and post it here ... so we can finally answer the question? It is not a copyright violation. 5% of the content must be copied before a request is necessary. One copy of one letter is not 5%.

Did anyone that owns a camera, or a cell phone, buy the book ... ?

 

[otto]

Knox seems like someone that is trying to bury her past of having no boundaries and wanting to push everything to an extreme limit for her own entertainment. Karla Homolka is still trying to bury her past, where she victimized women that she felt were a threat.

 

[otto]

I've read in a few different places that Knox's ice breaker with men; where she tells them about how to make her laugh, is asking men to play a game of making faces at each other (is that in Knox's book?). I wonder what sort of faces they made. Knox's three Italian hook ups would have looked different than Sollecito's funny faces after two weeks of playing the game.

I also wonder if this is something Knox picked up from Paxton about taking good photographs Yehudi Menuhin discusses how to take a good photograph and it involves getting people to relax and to then capture an authentic expression. Paxton probably got it wrong and Knox interpreted it as meaning Making Funny Faces. I have to wonder if making funny faces for fun before sex means getting into each other's head, talking about life's disappointments, discussing the death of Sollecito's mother leading up to All Saint's Day ...when suddenly Sollecito and Knox have a simultaneous turn off the phone memory wipe on the night that Knox's roommate and nemesis is murdered ... followed by a whole lot of bizarre behavior from Sollecito and Knox.

After two weeks of playing a game of Funny Face, were they deep into each other's heads and ready to take action ... looking for the better high

 

[Harmony 2]

When were these photos taken? I don't see glass on top of the clothes but I see what appears like dirt and small pieces of rock...

link

link

This is the actual crime scene police video:

****Warning: Graphic****

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/miscellaneous/police_video_november_2_2007.mp4

 

[SMK]

I've read in a few different places that Knox's ice breaker with men; where she tells them about how to make her laugh, is asking men to play a game of making faces at each other (is that in Knox's book?). I wonder what sort of faces they made. Knox's three Italian hook ups would have looked different than Sollecito's funny faces after two weeks of playing the game.

I also wonder if this is something Knox picked up from Paxton about taking good photographs Yehudi Menuhin discusses how to take a good photograph and it involves getting people to relax and to then capture an authentic expression. Paxton probably got it wrong and Knox interpreted it as meaning Making Funny Faces. I have to wonder if making funny faces for fun before sex means getting into each other's head, talking about life's disappointments, discussing the death of Sollecito's mother leading up to All Saint's Day ...when suddenly Sollecito and Knox have a simultaneous turn off the phone memory wipe on the night that Knox's roommate and nemesis is murdered ... followed by a whole lot of bizarre behavior from Sollecito and Knox.

After two weeks of playing a game of Funny Face, were they deep into each other's heads and ready to take action ... looking for the better high

As I've noted before, depending on if there was the presence of some profound pathology, it could or could not develop this way. Bernardo and Homolka were able to fuse their respective smoldering pathologies quickly. But very hard to prove in this case; In fact it is not provable, but depends on intuition and deductive inference and a whole lot of connecting the dots in retrospect.

 

[Sonata]

As I've noted before, depending on if there was the presence of some profound pathology, it could or could not develop this way. Bernardo and Homolka were able to fuse their respective smoldering pathologies quickly. But very hard to prove in this case; In fact it is not provable, but depends on intuition and deductive inference and a whole lot of connecting the dots in retrospect.

Not to mention that Bernardo already had a long history of rape. It wasn't like they both had suppressed urges that suddenly sparked. There was a history. Not so in this case.

 

[SMK]

Not to mention that Bernardo already had a long history of rape. It wasn't like they both had suppressed urges that suddenly sparked. There was a history. Not so in this case.

Yes, that's true. ETA: And of course the whole Bernardo/Homolka comparison breaks down unless Knox and Sollecito were far more ill and dangerous than anyone had ever suspected. It is of course possible (in my own area in the 1990s a 15 year old honor student with no prior trouble knifed her mother and brother to death - NJ v Brenda Wiley)- but there must be a lot of proof and forensic evidence to back up the rest ....There is no rational explanation for the murder (such as when a husband kills his wife for the life insurance and house to live with his new mistress, etc.): this would have to be based on irrational anger stemming from a deeply rooted pathology which suddenly ignited. Again, possible indeed - but you need proof or it's just a theory.

 

[Amber29]

In response to wether glass was found on clothes and why witness statements are different than crime scene photos.
From Massei report page 54
Consequently, the visual and tactile observations of the witnesses and the photographs of the surroundings cannot be judged in parallel, given that they represent different situations at different times. It is enough to note that inspector Battistelli told everyone to leave the house, not when he saw the broken window in Romanelli's room, but when he realised that there was a corpse in Meredith's room.
Therefore, the declarations and descriptions of said room need not be accepted only insofar as they correspond to what is shown in the photographs, especially in regard to the presence and position of the pieces of glass. On this point, apart from Romanelli's declarations, which appear reliable because of their precision, and because the emotion of the event caused the images and memories to be imprinted in a very lively manner (as in the comment referred to and recalled above and which are thus valid to complete the memory recall), also the declarations of the assistant Fabio Marsi should be recalled. He declared that he observed "that there were clothes and other personal items on the floor with glass on top of them and the rock which, presumably, had broken the window" (p. 127 hearing Feb. 6, 2009); he also added that Romanelli "checked to see if anything was missing and said no, but look, everything is here, everything"

There is much more and all of Filomenas statements about her room before that page and on. If you haven't read it, it's worth the read. The reasoning in the determination of a staged break in is clear and concise. To over come this conclusion you have to discount all this evidence, not just the pieces of glass on clothing.

 

[Monzoo]

Not to mention that Bernardo already had a long history of rape. It wasn't like they both had suppressed urges that suddenly sparked. There was a history. Not so in this case.

In addition -- correct me if I am wrong -- didn't they have a relationship for years before Homolka assisted Bernardo in the rape/murder of her sister? Also quite different from this case, where Knox and Sollecito met approx. one week before the murder.

 

[Sonata]

In addition -- correct me if I am wrong -- didn't they have a relationship for years before Homolka assisted Bernardo in the rape/murder of her sister? Also quite different from this case, where Knox and Sollecito met approx. one week before the murder.

Yes they had been together for 3 years and were engaged if not married.

 

[Monzoo]

In response to wether glass was found on clothes and why witness statements are different than crime scene photos.
From Massei report page 54
Consequently, the visual and tactile observations of the witnesses and the photographs of the surroundings cannot be judged in parallel, given that they represent different situations at different times. It is enough to note that inspector Battistelli told everyone to leave the house, not when he saw the broken window in Romanelli's room, but when he realised that there was a corpse in Meredith's room.
Therefore, the declarations and descriptions of said room need not be accepted only insofar as they correspond to what is shown in the photographs, especially in regard to the presence and position of the pieces of glass. On this point, apart from Romanelli's declarations, which appear reliable because of their precision, and because the emotion of the event caused the images and memories to be imprinted in a very lively manner (as in the comment referred to and recalled above and which are thus valid to complete the memory recall), also the declarations of the assistant Fabio Marsi should be recalled. He declared that he observed "that there were clothes and other personal items on the floor with glass on top of them and the rock which, presumably, had broken the window" (p. 127 hearing Feb. 6, 2009); he also added that Romanelli "checked to see if anything was missing and said no, but look, everything is here, everything"

There is much more and all of Filomenas statements about her room before that page and on. If you haven't read it, it's worth the read. The reasoning in the determination of a staged break in is clear and concise. To over come this conclusion you have to discount all this evidence, not just the pieces of glass on clothing.

I have read he Massei report. It is, of course a Judge justifying a conviction despite evidence to the contrary. I find his handwaving away the fact that the photos show nothing that the prosecution alleges quite sad, really.

 

[SMK]

I have read he Massei report. It is, of course a Judge justifying a conviction despite evidence to the contrary. I find his handwaving away the fact that the photos show nothing that the prosecution alleges quite sad, really.

I always found some of the discrepancies unsettling.

 

[SMK]

In addition -- correct me if I am wrong -- didn't they have a relationship for years before Homolka assisted Bernardo in the rape/murder of her sister? Also quite different from this case, where Knox and Sollecito met approx. one week before the murder.

Yes, the facts are clearly divergent. I guess , though, speaking purely psychologically - it could be said that Homolka from the beginning accepted every bizarre fact about Bernardo, no matter how disturbing or criminal those facts were-- and that nothing in her life prior indicated she was capable of responding this way.

 

[Amber29]

I have read he Massei report. It is, of course a Judge justifying a conviction despite evidence to the contrary. I find his handwaving away the fact that the photos show nothing that the prosecution alleges quite sad, really.

I find completely hand waiving 2 witnesses testimony about the room (neither of which had a reason to misconstrue evidence) sad.

 

[SMK]

I find completely hand waiving 2 witnesses testimony about the room (neither of which had a reason to misconstrue evidence) sad.

I can't speak for anyone else, but one of the things which ruined the Massei report for me was the deconstruction of it by Ron Hendry and others. Now, perhaps this latter was all a big PR campaign white-wash. I may have been conned; I don't know. It is possible.

But it definitely deflated the Massei report for me: Ruined it and disempowered it and took the air right out of it. In their version, Filomena admits she probably or might have left the shutters open, etc. They have lengthy explanations for every single fact Massei reports. Kind of like when alternative doctors reveal that mainstream doctors are wrong in every facet of treatment they do: You don't know if they are conning you, but now a can of worms has been opened and trust has been totally ruined. And yes, that would be the goal of a PR spin, I know....

 

[Amber29]

I can't speak for anyone else, but one of the things which ruined the Massei report for me was the deconstruction of it by Ron Hendry and others. Now, perhaps this latter was all a big PR campaign white-wash. I may have been conned; I don't know. It is possible.

But it definitely deflated the Massei report for me: Ruined it and disempowered it and took the air right out of it. In their version, Filomena admits she probably or might have left the shutters open, etc. They have lengthy explanations for every single fact Massei reports. Kind of like when alternative doctors reveal that mainstream doctors are wrong in every facet of treatment they do: You don't know if they are conning you, but now a can of worms has been opened and trust has been totally ruined. And yes, that would be the goal of a PR spin, I know....

Well Ron Hendry wasn't on the jury. Judge Massei has given his reasonings why they reached a guilty verdict, the same way Hellmann reached his verdict. Everyone interprets things differently. Judge Hellmann's reasoning have been ripped apart by the cassation court made up of multiple judges. I guess all the judges but Hellmann are wrong in some people's opinions.

 

[Monzoo]

I find completely hand waiving 2 witnesses testimony about the room (neither of which had a reason to misconstrue evidence) sad.

Unfortunately, human memory is fallible. In addition, the testimony of the witnesses was not consistent.

One incident ( going from memory) is whether Filomena left the outer shutters open or closed. At various times she has said: she thinks she left them open; the thinks she shut them; and that she was in a hurry to leave the house and can't really remember.

Should we favor one piece of testimony over the other?


Then there is Battestelli, the policeman first on the scene. He testified that he never lifted the duvet over Meredith to check the body, and Filomens's boyfriend testified that he saw him do it. Who should we believe?

The police had every opportunity to collect evidence properly. The fact that they bungled the investigation means that they can't prove what they say.

 

[otto]

Not to mention that Bernardo already had a long history of rape. It wasn't like they both had suppressed urges that suddenly sparked. There was a history. Not so in this case.

Sollecito has his own history of abnormal interests that resulted in the need for him to be monitored by the schools regarding behavior.

 

[Sonata]

Sollecito has his own history of abnormal interests that resulted in the need for him to be monitored by the schools regarding behavior.

I don't think teenage curiosity over bestiality compares to serial rape.