Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#4

[redheadedgal]

Wow, that is some master, professional criminal to be able to do all that and not leave more traces of himself everywhere. Such as, more footprints from all that walking around (cleaning pants, etc..) Also cleaning himself up in the bathroom would naturally leave traces in the bathroom, blood spatter from the water, etc., etc.. Blood swipes on the counter from his hands. And on and on. Also, he would have to not give a care in the world if someone happened to unexpectedly come back to the house while he was in there with a dead body. For him to take the time after the murder to do all of that, in the same room and house with a dead body.
Also, he would have to be a professional to be able to concentrate on looking through the phone and calling her bank, all while walking out. Instead of regular criminals who would be scared as sh** that they'll get caught and just want to get the heck out of there as quickly as possible.

going by the contents of this post, it seems to suggest that AK and RS are now master, professional criminals b/c they left few traces of themselves everywhere (especially MK's bedrm), allegedly cleaned up evidence, and wouldn't have had a care in the world if someone unexpectedly came back home while they were there cleaning up, and b/c they apparently weren't scared as sh** they'd get caught and didn't get out of there as quickly as possible (they stayed to clean up, AK returned home to shower, and both returned to the cottage after amanda went to get RS) ??

or is this scenario only applicable to RG?

 

[otto]

going by the contents of this post, it seems to suggest that AK and RS are now master, professional criminals b/c they left few traces of themselves everywhere (especially MK's bedrm), allegedly cleaned up evidence, and wouldn't have had a care in the world if someone unexpectedly came back home while they were there cleaning up, and b/c they apparently weren't scared as sh** they'd get caught and didn't get out of there as quickly as possible (they stayed to clean up, AK returned home to shower, and both returned to the cottage after amanda went to get RS) ??

or is this scenario only applicable to RG?

Clearly someone cleaned up because there is a bloody footprint on the bath mat, and there are not bloody foot prints to and from the bathmat.

 

[aa9511]

going by the contents of this post, it seems to suggest that AK and RS are now master, professional criminals b/c they left few traces of themselves everywhere (especially MK's bedrm), allegedly cleaned up evidence, and wouldn't have had a care in the world if someone unexpectedly came back home while they were there cleaning up, and b/c they apparently weren't scared as sh** they'd get caught and didn't get out of there as quickly as possible (they stayed to clean up, AK returned home to shower, and both returned to the cottage after amanda went to get RS) ??

or is this scenario only applicable to RG?

hahahahahha.....good point!

Ok, well first of all, I have a feeling that RG is not very bright. Considering the infantile kind of way he did his last break-ins. In my gut, I don't feel like he has the smarts to disguise what he did or attempt to think ahead into the future very much. Again, that is just going on what I've heard about the kind of things he was caught in previously. I just can't see him doing anything other than throwing his hands up and running away.

Now, no AK and RS are not master/professional criminals....but they did have up to 12 hours to do something. And they appear to be rather bright people, I can certainly see them coming up with a plan to cover-up as best as they could. And I can see them carrying out that plan, seeing as they had a while to do it.

On the point about not caring if someone walked in, well, of course Amanda (and thus RS), knew her roommates were away, and the one that was in town was dead. Does that mean they weren't frightened? I'm sure they were. Does that mean one of the roomates couldn't have changed their plans and decided to come home? I doubt it, and Amanda probably knew there was a slim chance of that happening. And so they probably tried to work as fast as they could just in case. However, they could be much more sure that no one would come home than Rudy would. HOW DID RUDY KNOW AMANDA WOULDN"T WALK IN ON HIM?? Even if he somehow knew the other roomates were away and there was no chance of them coming back that night, he would have to have known Amanda was in town since he apparently somehow knew of the whole house's activities.

It is not fair, IMO, to compare Rudy's knowledge of the whereabouts of the house's inhabitants, to that of Amanda. She lived there!

 

[TartLemon]

Well all common sense suggests he was because the prosecution never appealed his massive sentence reduction from 30 years to 16 and now being eligible for release and back on the streets next May after only 7 years.

Yet strangely they appealed Amanda & Raffaele's convictions of 26 & 25 years wanting them increased using an special mafia law to put her (a model prisoner) in solitary confinement with no visitation rights where she probably would have gone insane.

Go figure.

First of all, why would the Prosecutor appeal a guilty verdict?

In the second place, the sentence was the the same as given to Raff and AK, but because of the fast track law in Italy, was reduced by a third.

Amanda and Raff were given the same fast track option. They'd be getting out of prison soon. Well, except for Amanda who also had the culunia conviction.

 

[aa9511]

going by the contents of this post, it seems to suggest that AK and RS are now master, professional criminals b/c they left few traces of themselves everywhere (especially MK's bedrm), allegedly cleaned up evidence, and wouldn't have had a care in the world if someone unexpectedly came back home while they were there cleaning up, and b/c they apparently weren't scared as sh** they'd get caught and didn't get out of there as quickly as possible (they stayed to clean up, AK returned home to shower, and both returned to the cottage after amanda went to get RS) ??
or is this scenario only applicable to RG?

And just one more point re: bolded part.....I don't see how we can take what Amanda says and turn it into certain facts. She says she returned home without RS to take a shower. I am not going to take her word for it based upon the lie after lie she's told. So who says she really returned there without RS, and who says she even took a shower? IMO, they were both together at every point during everything. And IMO no shower took place at the cottage.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

I believe he interrupted Meredith's call to her mother and she was killed shortly thereafter.
He then cleaned his pants, searched through her things, sat on her bed, laid the knife down, rifled through her purse, grabbed her cards, stole her phones and before all this he preformed an act so heinous and inexplicable, I can't even bring my fingers to type.
As he left the cottage, he made the calls, silenced the incoming picture message maybe even threw the knife and keys – I don't know. Later on that night he hooked up with his buddies and went out on the town. Since then he keeps reminding everyone that if he only had a phone to call for help, she'd be alive and I don't believe him.

This is a very good summary. The only speculation I can think to add is that Guede took the phones so that an incoming call would not cause a noise in her room. The ringing might alert someone in the flat to the fact that Meredith was unable to answer.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

First of all, why would the Prosecutor appeal a guilty verdict?

In the second place, the sentence was the the same as given to Raff and AK, but because of the fast track law in Italy, was reduced by a third.

Amanda and Raff were given the same fast track option. They'd be getting out of prison soon. Well, except for Amanda who also had the culunia conviction.

The prosecution appealed to take out the mitigation portion of Amanda's and Raffaele's sentences. The prosecution did not appeal to remove the mitigation in Rudy's sentence.

 

[otto]

I believe he interrupted Meredith's call to her mother and she was killed shortly thereafter.
He then cleaned his pants, searched through her things, sat on her bed, laid the knife down, rifled through her purse, grabbed her cards, stole her phones and before all this he preformed an act so heinous and inexplicable, I can't even bring my fingers to type.
As he left the cottage, he made the calls, silenced the incoming picture message maybe even threw the knife and keys – I don't know. Later on that night he hooked up with his buddies and went out on the town. Since then he keeps reminding everyone that if he only had a phone to call for help, she'd be alive and I don't believe him.

Meredith made the phone call to her mother when she was walking home. Supposedly, Guede broke a window and climbed into the cottage. How could Guede have attacked Meredith when she was walking home and he climbed in through the window?

What evidence is there that any clothes were cleaned at the cottage?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Are you trying to say this was a normal calling time for AK to her home?

:facepalm:

No, but the call was nearly simultaneous with Raffaele's call to his sister, a member of the Carabinieri. They were both increasingly alarmed at this point IMO.

 

[SMK]

Just thinking about the idea that the shower was skipped:

From Nadeau's text; the scene shortly after Meredith's body was discovered:

"At the end of the garden, a group of young people were huddled on the gravel -- friends of Meredith and of her Italian roommates. At the other end of the driveway, Amanda and Raffaelle stood alone. . .

"Amanda was crumpled. Her hair was messy, and she was wearing wrinkled, faded jeans. . . . "

"Carmignani (a longtime journalist for the Messaggero newspaper in Perugia), who knew all the cops by name, broke away from the gaggle (of reporters from Rome and London) that were starting to assemble on the roof and sauntered down to the crime scene. The police confided to him some observations that never got to court. For example, police said that Amanda's body odor contradicted her claim that she'd just showered; she smelled like sex. They noticed that her face was puffy, with makeup smeared under her eyes. Because she was not then a suspect, no drug or alcohol tests were ordered. . . "

(although I am unsure of what they mean by "smelling like sex"........:blushing: )

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Took them but threw them away??? There goes that one.

Not quite. Rudy might have gotten spooked if there were police in the vicinity. I have always been uncertain about this, but I thought that there were that night. In any case, there are several reasons he might have taken them. Only Rudy knows for sure.

 

[otto]

No, but the call was nearly simultaneous with Raffaele's call to his sister, a member of the Carabinieri. They were both increasingly alarmed at this point IMO.

They were allegedly panicked when they decided to try to break down Meredith's door, when they were alone. They were not panicked moments later when Filomina asked the Postal Police to break down the door. At that time, they were relaxed and insisted that Meredith routinely locked her bedroom door.

 

[SMK]

They were allegedly panicked when they decided to try to break down Meredith's door, when they were alone. They were not panicked moments later when Filomina asked the Postal Police to break down the door. At that time, they were relaxed and insisted that Meredith routinely locked her bedroom door.

That is a disturbing divergence, from any point of view.

 

[aa9511]

This is a very good summary. The only speculation I can think to add is that Guede took the phones so that an incoming call would not cause a noise in her room. The ringing might alert someone in the flat to the fact that Meredith was unable to answer.

I would presume that he would assume that if any of thee roomates in the upper flat came home, they would discover her regardless of whether or not the phone was ringing in the room.

I doubt he thought that far ahead and decided that the extra 15 minutes would be useful.

When I look at this case, I see planned aspects and unplanned aspects. IMO, the planned aspects (cover-up) are all the work of AK and RS, and the unplanned is RG. I highly doubt one person would commit a crime in such a fashion....planning and thinking ahead for certain parts, and then for other parts leaving obvious traces of himself behind (example, the poo).

So you're saying he had the forethought to think of the ringing phones and how that would affect him, but didn't have the forethought to wipe his bloody print off of the wall or flush his poo and toilet paper??

 

[aa9511]

This is a very good summary. The only speculation I can think to add is that Guede took the phones so that an incoming call would not cause a noise in her room. The ringing might alert someone in the flat to the fact that Meredith was unable to answer.

Also....I forgot about the broken window! Hello!

So he was worried about the phones ringing....that that would alert them that Meredith was in the room and something was not right.......but NOT the broken window??

 

[redheadedgal]

Appeals are automatic. As with AK/RS they are not fully-convicted until all three 'trials'.

my assertion that RG did indeed decide to fight is correct, despite the above.

the giordano/scc decision came down in december 2010.

oct. 2011,

A lawyer for the sole man now convicted for the stabbing death of Amanda Knox's British roommate said Tuesday he will seek a retrial.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/amanda-knoxs-alleged-accomplice-wants-retrial/

 

[Myvice]

I was wondering if the phones may have been left on in hopes they would ping at a different location and again cause delay and questions in time of death. That could be why Raff told his dad that he and Amanda would be out of town the next day. If the body was discovered while they were out of town they would have an alibi if TOD couldn't be established.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Also....I forgot about the broken window! Hello!

So he was worried about the phones ringing....that that would alert them that Meredith was in the room and something was not right.......but NOT the broken window??

If I came home to a shared flat and found a broken window, I would assume a burglary or possibly an act of vandalism had taken place, but I would not think that my flatmate might be incapacitated or dead. If I heard a phone ringing and no one answering it, I would be concerned to the point of at least considering the possibility such wrongdoing.

 

[whoanellie]

They were allegedly panicked when they decided to try to break down Meredith's door, when they were alone. They were not panicked moments later when Filomina asked the Postal Police to break down the door. At that time, they were relaxed and insisted that Meredith routinely locked her bedroom door.

This is the Goldilocks theory of guilt. They were either too [fill in the blank] or they were not [fill in the blank] enough. They were never just right.

 

[Myvice]

I also haven't been able to find much on the clothes in the washer/dryer. All I've found is that the washer was running when the cops got there. Does anyone have a direction for me to search in or have knowledge?