Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#4

[SMK]

This is the same Wiki that made an incorrect assertion about Sollecito's knives, citing an anonymous blogger as its reference. Consider the source.

I will keep that well in mind.

 

[SMK]

All of that didn't give incorrect results for Rudy G's DNA. It was collected and sampled same way everything else was.

I think the dispute RE the bra clasp had to do with 47 days of it being at the cottage while an investigation ensued. I see the disputing material can be found here:


http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/TheBraClasp.html

In the 47 days that the clasp was on the floor it was moved around the room and ended up in a pile of garbage. Keep in mind that this clasp also had cloth attached to it from the bra. This cloth collected dust for 47 days. Raffaele was at the apartment on several occasions. Finding his DNA in the apartment would be no surprise.

Raffaele attempted to break down Meredith's door the morning that Meredith's body was discovered. Two of his finger prints were found on the door. Investigators most likely made contact with that door many times. As we know, the clasp was collected using dirty gloves.

So in conclusion, the bra clasp tested positive for the DNA of Raffaele and most likely several other people that visited the apartment. In other words, the bra clasp proves nothing.

So why did C & V not simply site this type of problem rather than saying that anything was possible?

 

[aa9511]

snipped for space


(except the knife found at Raff's - there was no bleach) how I basically understand it is, in the first trial, the prosecution said the knife found at Raffs was scrubbed cleaned with bleach. They also claimed to have found meredith's dna on the tip and amanda's on the handle.

The defense objected to meredith's dna due to improper procedure.(low template) They didn't object to Amanda's dna, but said in theory, it was impossible to find any dna if it had been scrubbed clean with bleach.

So, in the second trial, the defense was given the opportunity to prove their theory by having the knife retested. It was agreed to test the crevices connecting the handle to the blade since this is where blood would seep in.

Instead of finding blood, they found a starchy substance relating to bread which would have been destroyed had the knife been cleaned with bleach.

this supports the defense.. And since the knife wasn't cleaned with bleach, and if it was the murder weapon, then they most likely would have found meredith's blood seeped into the crevices.

so, how did this low template dna of meredith's get there? either contamination or it's not hers at all. Steph. refuses to show her work.

Like I said, this is just how I basically understand it.

Thanks. It does sound so confusing when one side says something and the other says something completely different. So I don't know. IIRC I thought they couldn't prove conclusively whether the latest sample was starch or not?

If the murderers were indeed Amanda and RS (along with Rudy), I believe that they would have cleaned the knife off and put it back in the drawer. IIRC, in one interview, RS tried to say that was a completely ludicrous theory and they (prosecution) just picked up a knife from the kitchen drawer and said "that's the murder weapon." However, I don't think it's that ludicrous of a theory. It seems to me that it the most logical place they would put it, as I said in my post.

I honestly think Rudy was too dumb to think of how to hide the knife.

 

[aa9511]

I think the dispute RE the bra clasp had to do with 47 days of it being at the cottage while an investigation ensued. I see the disputing material can be found here:


http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/TheBraClasp.html




So why did C & V not simply site this type of problem rather than saying that anything was possible?

Sigh. Yes, if they had just picked it up earlier and tested it earlier, there would be no second-guessing (well, there probably still would but not as much).

 

[aa9511]

I feel we will be discussing this case until the day we die. LOL.

 

[otto]

Sollecito's DNA may have gotten onto the clasp the same way the DNA from 2-4 other males got there. We know that three other men did not participate in the crime; therefore, the clasp is contaminated by the Van Oorshot definition. There is no reason to ask how when we already know that it is.

Are you assuming that there is no legitimate reason for any male DNA to be on Meredith's bra?

 

[otto]

The Italian high court.

So the suggestion is that because the judges sitting on the Supreme Court in Italy did not study DNA anaylsis, they are in no position to rule on cases where DNA evidence is presented?

 

[SMK]

I feel we will be discussing this case until the day we die. LOL.

Yep. Indeed, whichever side is victorious, the other side will always claim a gross miscarriage of justice.

 

[whoanellie]

I think the dispute RE the bra clasp had to do with 47 days of it being at the cottage while an investigation ensued. I see the disputing material can be found here:


http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/TheBraClasp.html




So why did C & V not simply site this type of problem rather than saying that anything was possible?

What makes you think the C&V report did not specifically cite the 46 day delay as a potential reason for contamination???? The C&V report does specifically discuss the 46 day delay in collecting the clasp, does specifically state that the delay could be a cause of contamination, and specifically describes procedures that should have been used to minimize the risk of incorrectly interpretting the DNA results from the bra clasp. Specifically:
"The risk of incorrectly interpreting such
environmental contamination from dust could have been minimized only by taking the care [avendo
l'accortezza] to institute extremely stringent control procedures, including the analysis of
extracts from sterile cotton swabs soaked with sterile buffer passed on ambient surfaces to take
samples of dust, a procedure which
was not carried out;"

What make you think they only said "anything is possible"???? Have you read the report??
Specifically the report says for example."we find that the universally noted inspection procedures and correct protocols of collection and sampling of items were not applied on Via della Pergola, even [those designed] to minimize environmental contamination and contamination from handling."

If procedures for minimizing contamination from handling were not followed doesn't it follow that there was an increased risk of contamination from handling???? Doesn't the presence of unidentified male DNA on the bra clasp demonstrate that contamination of some sort did occur?

 

[SMK]

Sollecito's DNA may have gotten onto the clasp the same way the DNA from 2-4 other males got there. We know that three other men did not participate in the crime; therefore, the clasp is contaminated by the Van Oorshot definition. There is no reason to ask how when we already know that it is.

Who are the other males whose DNA is on the clasp?

 

[otto]

Sigh. Yes, if they had just picked it up earlier and tested it earlier, there would be no second-guessing (well, there probably still would but not as much).

I don't believe that. Regardless of when the clasp was collected, forum comments, inspired by the belief that a woman from Seattle could not commit murder, would still claim that the evidence should be excluded.

 

[SMK]

I don't believe that. Regardless of when the clasp was collected, forum comments, inspired by the belief that a woman from Seattle could not commit murder, would still claim that the evidence should be excluded.

They well might; but the 47 days made the DNA far more suspect to the general public and to most readers. While it's true that DNA can be used to convict after it has sat for 20 years, it sat in an airtight tube in a DNA collection plastic envelope within another envelope within a box, etc.

 

[whoanellie]

Who are the other males whose DNA is on the clasp?

No one knows. That's the problem. DNA was found on the clasp that the proscecution has no explanation for. The proscecution (and some others) want to focus the DNA that fits their theory and ignore the rest. Do you think that is a reasonable approach?

 

[dgfred]

Since C and V are discarded... why argue over it's meaning and analysis?

IMO what they said is irrelevant for the most part at this stage.

 

[otto]

Who are the other males whose DNA is on the clasp?

I would venture to guess that DNA on Meredith's bra from a second male contributor could very likely belong to her boyfriend. To suggest that because there is male DNA from a second contributor on the clasp, we should believe that the clasp was contaminted twice seems to make no sense.

 

[Sonata]

I don't believe that. Regardless of when the clasp was collected, forum comments, inspired by the belief that a woman from Seattle could not commit murder, would still claim that the evidence should be excluded.

I don't think anyone is claiming that Amanda is innocent because she is a female from Seattle .

 

[whoanellie]

So the suggestion is that because the judges sitting on the Supreme Court in Italy did not study DNA anaylsis, they are in no position to rule on cases where DNA evidence is presented?

Clearly they are in a "position" to rule, they just did so incorrectly in this case.

 

[SMK]

What makes you think the C&V report did not specifically cite the 46 day delay as a potential reason for contamination???? The C&V report does specifically discuss the 46 day delay in collecting the clasp, does specifically state that the delay could be a cause of contamination, and specifically describes procedures that should have been used to minimize the risk of incorrectly interpretting the DNA results from the bra clasp. Specifically:
"The risk of incorrectly interpreting such
environmental contamination from dust could have been minimized only by taking the care [avendo
l'accortezza] to institute extremely stringent control procedures, including the analysis of
extracts from sterile cotton swabs soaked with sterile buffer passed on ambient surfaces to take
samples of dust, a procedure which
was not carried out;"

What make you think they only said "anything is possible"???? Have you read the report??
Specifically the report says for example."we find that the universally noted inspection procedures and correct protocols of collection and sampling of items were not applied on Via della Pergola, even [those designed] to minimize environmental contamination and contamination from handling."

If procedures for minimizing contamination from handling were not followed doesn't it follow that there was an increased risk of contamination from handling???? Doesn't the presence of unidentified male DNA on the bra clasp demonstrate that contamination of some sort did occur?

OK, granting all of this: Why was the Supreme Court so disdainful in it's rejection of C & V????

 

[Sonata]

I would venture to guess that DNA on Meredith's bra from a second male contributor could very likely belong to her boyfriend. To suggest that because there is male DNA from a second contributor on the clasp, we should believe that the clasp was contaminted twice seems to make no sense.

That could well be. But what about the other profile?

Does anyone know if DNA would likely be irradicated in the laundry?

 

[miley]

OK, granting all of this: Why was the Supreme Court so disdainful in it's rejection of C & V????

is the SC report a google translation?