Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#5

[sherlockh]

If they agree with her about the interrogation consisting of coercion, the language barrier, the lack of attorney, and in particular the special circumstances of not being informed of being considered a suspect , they may indeed be interested in rectifying the ruling of slander.

I also think this ECHR issue could effect a call (if necessary) for extradition. I think her attorneys are being quite strategic in this aspect.

They won't even accept the case as they do with most (98% are rejected). I wonder what happened with Guede's ECHR application.

Following supreme court judge Umberto Giordano's verdict, Guede's lawyer Walter Biscotti said: "We are not at all satisfied and will take this to Strasbourg."

http://news.sky.com/story/825375/blow-to-knox-as-kercher-killer-stays-in-jail

 

[Myvice]

Police didn't bring up his name. That's absurd. Knox should make a bigger effort to work with the truth.

Interesting that it takes her two years to thank her supporters. Did she forget about them until she needed them again?

 

[whoanellie]

Anyone who has ever seen a LIFETIME Movie could have guessed as much.

True, but they certainly would have flushed the toilet!

 

[Nova]

Technically, if Baez knew that he was playing a game and was not going to submit any evidence of sexual abuse, he could have been sanctioned. But it is almost impossible to prove that. He could have simply said I intended to put Casey on the stand to testify to that but then decided we did not need it.

Slimy tactic and it probably hurts a lawyer's reputation long term if they do such things, but it did work in the casey case by shifting the narrative.

Exactly. And the prosecution could have hit Baez hard on the fact that he never offered any proof for his outrageous claims. But I suspect the DAs decided the entire subject was so incendiary, they were better off dropping it rather than hammering Baez. In short, they didn't trust the jury to put reason over emotion.

We'll see how often Baez uses such a tactic in the future and what the bar has to say if he does.

 

[Amber29]

Anyone who has ever seen a LIFETIME Movie could have guessed as much.

Of course it can't be knowledge of the crime, it has be another good guess by Amanda. So now she was right about the sexual violence, the loud scream, and a black man did it. Not to mention telling Meredith's friends "she *advertiser censored**ing bled to death".

 

[Nova]

Yeh I know he was within the bounds of the law. My point was only that lawyers do nasty things, that can sway a jury.

Baez may or may not have been within the law. We can't know unless his client reveals what she told him and she has a constitutionally protected right to remain silent.

Technically, though, American lawyers are officers of the court and restricted to that which can be logically inferred from the known facts. (This is why we hear of defense lawyers telling their own clients not to admit guilt, not even in confidence; it's because that knowledge ties the defense attorney's hands.)

 

[Nova]

Police didn't bring up his name. That's absurd. Knox should make a bigger effort to work with the truth.

Why absurd? His was the last text message she had received (and within an hour or two of the murder). OF COURSE, the carabinieri brought up Lumumba's name.

 

[MichaelSmith]

One point that Crini made today

"45. Knox spoke about a scream and a sexual violence before anyone knew. Sollecito said nothing was stolen before they knew."

I never even thought about amanda knowing Meredith had been sexually assaulted or sexual violence being involved before that was known.

Details about sexual violence/rape/Meredith had sex were her attacker were all over the media before November 5. They leaked the autopsy on Nov 4.

 

[otto]

Why absurd? His was the last text message she had received (and within an hour or two of the murder). OF COURSE, the carabinieri brought up Lumumba's name.

According to trial transcripts, Knox states that she introduced his name.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Are you sure AK said "killed by the wardrobe INSTEAD of where she was found"? Link please.

Because the bedrooms in that flat are so small that "by the wardrobe", "by the bed" and "by the door" are all within a few feet of each other. If AK merely said "by the wardrobe" it doesn't signify much.

In the passage I quoted from Dempsey earlier today, it indicated that she had the position of the body wrong.

 

[aa9511]

the opinion of an american investigator, professor, etc is undesirable, but the opinion of an american prosecutor should be valued and regurgitated here?

Well, when we are constantly being told to consider reasonable doubt, by that meaning virtually every doubt in existence, and we are told that we are supposed to speculate on behalf of Raffaelo and Amanda in order to find them excuses and thus "reasonable doubt," then I felt some clarification was needed as to what we can use for "reasonable doubt."

You can choose to ignore if you wish.

I was responding to another post on reasonable doubt. And Juan Martinez has never spoken out about Amanda Knox's case, nor was he talking about her case in what I paraphrased. That is totally different from someone else espousing their ideas on a case which they know nothing about except for whatever information those who wish for them to comment CHOOSE TO GIVE THEM.

 

[Myvice]

Why absurd? His was the last text message she had received (and within an hour or two of the murder). OF COURSE, the carabinieri brought up Lumumba's name.

What would be so hard about just telling the truth?

There would be no problem with just telling them the context of the call.

 

[aa9511]

I've given the dirty toilet some thought and why she wouldn't/didn't flush it. If she and MK didn't see eye to eye on housekeeping as I've read, then maybe she wanted to point it out -'see, I'm not the pig around here, someone else didn't flush' something like that. She certainly seemed upset about the unflushed toilet and most adults (and probably kids too) would just go ewww and flush without much other thought but if there was contention about cleanliness, maybe that's the only reason. I can't think of another reason except she just thought it was disgusting and someone else's job to flush.

Has Amanda ever said anything like that? I'm really asking, because I don't know. If that is the reason, well then she's had every opportunity to say that reason. I haven't heard anything like that coming from her.

I am having issue with us having to speculate and come up with constant excsuses for Amanda and Raffaelo, when I've seen they have had many many opportunities to speak for themselves and say what they want. It's their job to give themselves excuses, not ours.

 

[aa9511]

I guess you disagree with Juan Martinez when he says don't go beyond the evidence? Are you of the opinion that jurors should make up their own evidence that goes against what is said in court?

Yes, it seems it's fine with the supporters of their innocence that we should all jump out and rescue Amanda and Raffaelo from themselves, from their own lies, from their own stories, from their own "truths." We should constantly speculate on their behalf. We should constantly think of "other reasons" why they did such-and-such thing.

It's all excuses, is what it is. I am not going to make excuses for them, and pretend like I'm doing it for the sake of "reasonable doubt."

 

[Nova]

"Small" seems rather relative and subjective. What are the dimensions of the bedroom?

Oddly and though I can find plenty of layout maps, I can't find the exact dimensions. Based on Hendry's pictures, I'd guess 10x12" or so: not the smallest room I've ever lived in, but since it also served as MK's workspace and closet, the empty floorspace was minimal. (And we know from the layouts that it was 50% or so larger than AK's room, the latter often described as "very small".)

But in any event, it no longer matters: posts since the one to which I was responding have shown that what AK was told and repeated was that MK was found "in the wardrobe". And we both know that was false.

 

[MichaelSmith]

This is from Amanda's calumny appeal doc to the SC.

If the county Court [i.e. C.A.A. of Perugia] had delved into the reading of the records of the trial, they would have had the opportunity to notice that the defendant herself during the conversation with her mother on November 10 2007, pages 43-44, confessed:

A[manda Knox]: I said...what happened is that they all had left the room, at that moment one of the police officers said: "I am the only one who can save you, I'm the only one who can save you. Tell me just a name". And I said: "I don't know!" And then they said, I said: "can you show me the message that I received from Patrick?!" Because I didn't remember I had answered him, and so they showed me the message and then I said: "Patrick..." And then I thought to Patrick, of seeing Patrick, that is I think I completely lost my mind and I imagined uhm...to see him and...

M[ellas Edda, Knox's mother]: See him where?

A: See him near the basketball court.

M: Ok

A: And then at my home, I uhmm, imagined that it went that way in the kitchen, that is uhmmm...because I could hear her screaming, but that is not true. It is not [true].

M: So, yes, they now say that you were...Ok.

A: And so it is not true. I said that only because I thought it could be true, because I imagined it. I did not say it to protect myself; and I feel horrible for this. Because I put Patrick in this horrible situation, he is framed in prison now, and it is my fault. It is my fault that he is here. I feel horrible. I did not want to do this. I just was frightened and confused, but now I'm not.

M: Ok, ok.

A: I am here and I am safe and I'm in the clear. But I do not want to stay here; because I know that I do not deserve to stay here.

M: Ok.

From the words of the defendant one infers that, at a certain point, all those who had participated in the "interrogation", as it is called by the C.A.A., get out, except for a "police officer" who invites Knox to remember; then the officer asks her to show the reply message to Patrick, Knox did not remember that she had answered and it is then that she accuses Lumumba.

 

[aa9511]

One point that Crini made today

"45. Knox spoke about a scream and a sexual violence before anyone knew. Sollecito said nothing was stolen before they knew."

I never even thought about amanda knowing Meredith had been sexually assaulted or sexual violence being involved before that was known.

Yes, of course they'll claim that Luca guy knew and told them. How would Luca know when the investigators didn't even know? No one seems to want to acknowledge that fact, it's much easier to believe their way.

 

[Myvice]

Candace Dempsey (pp. 82-83) wrote, "She told Sophie, incorrectly, that Meredith had been found in the wardrobe with only her foot sticking out. The only correct detail she had, in fact, was that her flatmate's throat had been cut."

It wasn't Sophie that was quoted about the crime details, it was Robin Butterworth.

I also remember hearing that she was telling the girls she found the body.

I can't imagine being so desperate for attention that you would lie to people that would eventually hear the truth come out. But it's certainly not the first time that has happened.

 

[redheadedgal]

About the window and whether someone climbed in through the window, finally proof that it was raining on the night of the murder. The rain means that anyone climbing through the window should have left some evidence in mud below the window and evidence of mud in Filomina's bedroom.

"Curatolo is sure of his memory and not enough to say that it is a toxic to devalue the testimony - Crini continues - and the fact that confuse a date with another is not well founded, because he mixed up the night of Halloween, but the memory is correct for the fact that remembers how in the evening (between 1 and 2 November 2007) it was raining and in fact it was raining the night of the murder. "

http://www.lanazione.it/firenze/cro...eredith-processo-accusa-sollecito-crini.shtml

left evidence in the mud? evidence of mud in FR room? why? i see a concrete edge/sidewalk to/around the lower level of the house:

and, why is anyone believing a known heroin addict? AK and RS and their memories are not reliable b/c of (hard) drug use, but curatolo's is?

 

[aa9511]

Yes, it does stand out. Although I suppose that there are those who could say it could be conjectured or inferred (she knew her roommate, a young female, had been killed. Being killed often involves screaming; girls are often sexually assaulted during robberies.) On the other hand, it does bespeak a certain knowledge of what did take place: A scream, a sex assault (or simulation of one).

BBM

Did Amanda say that's why she "knew"? That she speculated so?

I have heard that she did not have an answer for how she knew details of the crime before others knew.

Again we are supposed to think for her and make up excuses to benefit her.