Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#7

[otto]

But where did they go? If true, that's evidence of crime scene tampering.

Perhaps they faded due to people traffic? I don't know how blood stains on a floor change over time, especially when they are in a crime scene ... all crime scenes have traffic after the murder, and quite often also at later times.

 

[Katody]

Here's a photo from the December inspection.
The prints are completely gone.
<modsnip>


The picture held for comparison is from November:

<modsnip>

photos from the case file originally posted on InjusticeInPerugia.org

 

[Sigh Sister]

I'm relying on the the fact that the Supreme Court completely overruled Hellman's decision, labeling the C&V report as incomplete and illogical. That is pretty damning in terms of C&V. Balding reviews the C&V report and doesn't entirely agree with their results.

The Supreme court said C & V 's report was illogical and incomplete? I thought they said that about Hellman's ruling. It doesn't seem to me that the Supreme Court judges have qualifications to say that about a scientific report. Or am I missing something? Are the judges also scientists?

 

[sherlockh]

1. Supposed luminol shoeprint (impronta da calzatura), page 19 of Rinaldi's report:

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/rinaldi1.pdf

2. Bloody shoe print of Rudy Guede in the hallway between Meredith's door and bathroom is marked with large number "3" placard in the crime scene photos. I'm not saying it's heading to the bathroom. I'm saying it's there, negating any hypothesis that there was cleanup of this area.

1. It is far from certain that Rep.183 (L8) is a shoe print, and I don't see how anyone can state that there was no cleaning. Compare this print with the clear Luminol shoe print posted before. This one looks cleaned to me.
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/index.php?title=File:Rinaldi_Luminol_3.jpg

2. I guess I misunderstood. BBM.

There was no clean up for the simple reason that there are many visible bloody prints of Guede's shoe. One is located directly on the way to the bathroom.

 

[otto]

Guilty the first time, declared innocent the second time.

These are some of Guede's stories about what happened -

1. In a secretly recorded call with his best friend before he was arrested he admitted being at the cottage and in the murder room and said quite clearly Amanda wasn't involved. When asked if the killer was Raffaele, he says "umm, maybe, I dunno"

2. When he was caught and still in Germany he wrote a prison diary where he said he there on a date with Meredith and some mystery Italian dude was the killer. The guy entered the cottage and killed Meredith while he sat on the toilet listening to an Ipod that doesn't exist. He said Amanda had stolen Meredith's money and she was upset. He asks in the diary "who is Raffaele" and wonders if all the guys downstairs might have killed Meredith.

3. In another statement he says he saw Amanda in the cottage drive way while he "leaned out the window" that happened to be the one that was broken with the rock.

4. At one point his lawyers were hinting the killer might have been the man seen at the fountain on Nov 2 wearing a jacket and white cap.

5. He did outright accuse Amanda & Raffaele at one point during his trial or appeal. I can't remember exactly.

6. A prison snitch came forward saying Guede confessed to him saying he did it with another guy and called Meredith a ***** and prostitute who they raped and had to finish off. The snitch was a child killer but his story was corroborated by his lawyer and 3(?) other snitches who say they heard Guede telling him this.

7. At the Hellmann trial he wasn't allowed to answer questions about the actual murder but brought to court a letter he couldn't read so Mignini read it for him accusing Amanda & Raffaele. When questioned he said it was all just a "thought in his head"

8. He recently released a letter to an Italian tv station saying the killer or killers are still out there.

He was originally sentenced to 30 years but will go free next May after only 7 years for rape and murder. The prosecution never appealed his massive sentence reduction.

Could you please provide a link stating that Guede will be released in 2014. I have posted the link several times demonstrating that it is 2016. If it is 2014, I would like to see the source. Thx.

 

[Amber29]

Here's a photo from the December inspection.
The prints are completely gone.
<modsnip>


The picture held for comparison is from November:
<modsnip>


photos from the case file originally posted on InjusticeInPerugia.org

Considering the bed post doesn't even look to be in the same spot, I don't know what to think of these pics. Do they have a date stamp on them?

 

[otto]

Here's a photo from the December inspection.
The prints are completely gone.


photos from the case file originally posted on InjusticeInPerugia.org

I would ask the person holding the paper to move it to the right so we can see the spot where the print is.
Interesting how the photo with the person holding a paper has most of the red stripped from the photo - note bra strap in photo that is not exactly blood red anymore.

Is there a reference for the photo (other than another forum)? I'd like to see if the original also has the red faded.

 

[Katody]

Considering the bed post doesn't even look to be in the same spot, I don't know what to think of these pics. Do they have a date stamp on them?

Yes they do. You can download much higher resolution original files here http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PDF-Files.html

The timestamps are respectively 2007-12-18 14:11
and 2007-11-02 17:58

 

[whoanellie]

Here is a list of all the things (which after Hellmann was overturned, I read on the Murder Wiki) which convinced me that Knox and Sollecito had some culpability and foreknowledge:

( I leave out Knox's statement and calumnia of PL as those were too familiar to me in conjunction with false confession syndrome. I also leave out kisses, cartwheels, weird talk, buying lingerie, not knowing open door and blood drops meant serious crime was committed---to me all these things are normal and not suspect)

• Bathmat print
• luminol prints
• sink blood droplets and smears
• not calling 112 until after PP arrived
• AK saying MK always locked her door
• AK first call to Mom
• MK moved and bra removed after death
• simulation of robbery
• AK having knowledge of crime she could only know if present
• AK lamp on MK floor
• Quintavalle
• email home
• mixed sample FR room

Here is the list of what is left now (after errors, mistranslations, fabrication has been ruled out) and all of these are now questionable:

• sink droplets?
• 112 calls?
• AK on locked door?
• simulation of robbery?
• AK first call to Mom?
• Quintavalle?
• AK lamp on MK floor
• email home
• mixed sample FR room

Does anyone feel they are sure of more things, or are left with more of a list? And why?

SMK,
I've posted before on the issue of the timing of the 112 call versus the arrival of the postal police. I don't know if you saw or remembered those posts.
The bottom line is that whatever evidence was presented to the Massei court, it is evident from their report that they conclude that the 112 call occured prior to the arrival of the postal police.

You can search for my old posts for more info or look for yourself in the Massei report. The Hellman report also discusses the issue.

 

[MichaelSmith]

Could please provide a link stating that Guede will be released in 2014. I have posted the link several times demonstrating that it is 2016. If it is 2014, I would like to see the source. Thx.

A link with direct quotes from his lawyer has been provided twice in previous threads.

 

[Katody]

I would ask the person holding the paper to move it to the right so we can see the spot where the print is.

See the attachment.

Interesting how the photo with the person holding a paper has most of the red stripped from the photo - note bra strap in photo that is not exactly blood red anymore.

You're insinuating the photos are manipulated. They are only scaled down by this messageboard software. You can download the originals for yourself from the link I provided, <modsnip>.

 

[SMK]

SMK,
I've posted before on the issue of the timing of the 112 call versus the arrival of the postal police. I don't know if you saw or remembered those posts.
The bottom line is that whatever evidence was presented to the Massei court, it is evident from their report that they conclude that the 112 call occured prior to the arrival of the postal police.

You can search for my old posts for more info or look for yourself in the Massei report. The Hellman report also discusses the issue.

Thanks. That is why I have a question mark next to it:

I am not at all certain it is "damning" for the 2 defendants.

I will go back and look at your old posts.

 

[otto]

Yes they do. You can download much higher resolution original files here http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PDF-Files.html

The timestamps are respectively 2007-12-18 14:11
and 2007-11-02 17:58

Wasn't luminol done on Dec. 18?

 

[otto]

See the attachment.



You're insinuating the photos are manipulated. They are only scaled down by this messageboard software. You can download the originals for yourself from the link I provided, <modsnip>.

I'm not insinuating anything. I'm requesting a reference for the photos other than a forum. Does that seems unreasonable? Surely whomever posted the photos on that linked forum provided a reference.

 

[sherlockh]

You have to consider that there may have been these factors. But I think what is odd, is that none of the bare footprints tested with luminol tested positive for Meredith's DNA. This is troubling.

Massei concluded that Rep.L8 was a Luminol footprint containing both Meredith's and Knox's DNA. I believe even Hellmann agreed with this.

 

[SMK]

Massei concluded that Rep.L8 was a Luminol footprint containing both Meredith's and Knox's DNA. I believe even Hellmann agreed with this.

Thank you for this.
ETA: I guess the problem with all of this is, how the 2 opposing sides interpret the origin of these traces.

 

[miley]

I've been wondering about the shard of glass found in Meredith's room. I never noticed it until Amber posted a pic showing it. It's above evidence marker K:

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=21&image_id=3963

( sorry. I don't know how to do thumbnails)

Has this been discussed before? Was there any glass broken in Meredith's room? If not, how did it get there?

Broken glass was found in MK's room. Here is what Hellmann-Zanetti said:

It will also be recalled that the film, made by the scientific police during the inspection, reveals the presence of a glass fragment next to a footprint in Meredith&#8217;s room. Which logically leads one to conclude that the breaking of the window happened before the entry into the room of Meredith Kercher &#8212; there being no reason to suppose that after the alleged staging of the burglary, carried out to divert suspicions about responsibility for the crime already committed, the perpetrator had reason to go back into Meredith Kercher&#8217;s bedroom, thus leaving behind a glass fragment that had remained attached to the sole of a shoe or the clothing being worn.​

 

[sherlockh]

Which print is missing and where?

Depends how accurate these maps are. I would expect another shoe print of Guede by Meredith's bedroom door, and when he passed Knox's door towards the kitchen area. These areas seem rather large without any shoe prints.

http://truejustice.org/ee/images/perugia/frontpage104/10444.jpg
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/121212121212.jpg

Then there are the 'missing' prints. No prints of him walking back and forth to the bed, putting the pillow under Meredith, placing the duvet, closing the door. No prints of him walking back and forth to the bathroom.

 

[SMK]

Another thing that must be called into question, now:

The necessity of multiple attackers:

This was brought to my attention by trawling on JREF forum;

From Massei'
p 368

"The consultants and forensic scientists have asserted that from the point of view of forensic science, it cannot be ruled out that the author of the injuries could have been a single attacker, because the bruises and the wounds from a pointed and cutting weapon are not in themselves incompatible with the action of a single person. With regard to this, it is nevertheless observed that the contribution of each discipline is specifically in the domain of the specific competence of that discipline, and in fact the consultants and forensic experts concentrated their attention on the aspects specifically belonging to forensic science: time of death, cause of death, elements indicating sexual violence, the injuries present on the body of the victim, and the causes and descriptions of these.


The answer given above concerning the possibility of their being inflicted by the action of a single person or by more than one was given in relation to these specific duties and questions, which belong precisely to the domain of forensic science, and the meaning of this answer was thus that there are no scientific elements arising directly from forensic science which could rule out the injuries having been caused by the action of a single person."

However:
Dr. Lalli and Dr. Liviero did believe , in their expert opinions and said in their testimony as experts, that they believed that there had to be multiple attackers. (p 370, Massei). ETA: Reading more indepth, it seems Massei is saying that taken together, some aspects (lack of defensive wounds, bruising) would lead to the inference that the crime was the work of more than one attacker.

 

[sherlockh]

Thank you for this.
ETA: I guess the problem with all of this is, how the 2 opposing sides interpret the origin of these traces.

You mean on the inter nets? There doesn't seem to be any confusion in court.