American doctor in Liberia tests positive for Ebola virus

[Herding Cats]

In the video linked above by Redheadedgal (I think), the medic is the one wearing something on his waist. I suspect it's a rebreather apparatus. You can see him helping the Dr out of the ambulance, and the Dr. uses two hands to maintain balance while exiting - one hand in the medic's control, and his left hand on the side of the ambu. Dr. is not carrying anything.

I also suspect that the walking out was more media than not...meaning, the hue and cry for bringing a gravely ill with ebola man into the US needed some better optics than a gurney and someone being transferred that way. Besides, walking means that exposure to folks around is limited; only one guy there which is very, very odd to me) to be exposed to, rather than a team and a gurney.

I believe, knowing typical hospital protocol is to not let folks walk out to their rides after a stay; meeting incoming patients with gurney and help (e.g. in an ER type situation); and basic safety for patients, folks are not usually ambulating down the corridor from one place to the other...and certainly not someone who, just two days ago, was considered "gravely ill".

I suspect some optics; not saying it was political, not at all. The Dr. himself may have said "look, let me walk in there so people don't think I'm that ill", or whatever...but it certainly was not the typical way a patient goes from an ambulance into the hospital...not in the least.

Best-
Herding cats

 

[jjenny]

Jjenny, respectfully, can you supply a link to where "they already showed by doing research in monkeys that it can spread through droplets in the air"

Otherwise, I am considering that MOO on your part.

TIA

This research was published in one of the most prestigious journals, so it sure is not MOO.

"When news broke that the Ebola virus had resurfaced in Uganda, investigators in Canada were making headlines of their own with research indicating the deadly virus may spread between species, through the air."


http://healthmap.org/site/diseasedaily/article/pigs-monkeys-ebola-goes-airborne-112112

 

[atthelake]

do not bring this disease to north america !!! WHAT THE HELLO are they thinking??? !!!

The individuals/organizations are thinking that these US citizens can be treated best in the United States IMHO.

I think if it was my loved one, I would appreciate that after they have given so much to others less fortunate for their career, that others reached out to help them. In addition, there may be even more that these two can offer others through the *next phase* of their situation.

A good read which comes to mind right now about how the US jump started treating a virus.... "And the Band Played On". The HIV virus was pretty much isolated to an area in Africa - but when the US media/resulting FEAR of the American public/REAL infections came to fruition, monies were invested in research for learning more about the virus...which led to more monies invested by NGO's and governments... which led to treatments...which....well, y'all lived through it perhaps.

I highly recommend reading that book, my #1 recommended book of all time. I was very involved in it all from the inner scientific circle when it happened. It reads like a Robin Cook novel, but it very well tells the story of what is now known as HIV and AIDS.

 

[atthelake]

This research was published in one of the most prestigious journals, so it sure is not MOO.

"When news broke that the Ebola virus had resurfaced in Uganda, investigators in Canada were making headlines of their own with research indicating the deadly virus may spread between species, through the air."


http://healthmap.org/site/diseasedaily/article/pigs-monkeys-ebola-goes-airborne-112112

Thanks. Yep, it points out pigs do get a severe respiratory infection unlike other species. It exemplifies, like many viruses, transmission between non-human animals is different than human to human. And conclusion that the bottom of your link above does state (keeping within 10% rule here at WS)

What do these findings mean? First and foremost, Ebola is not suddenly an airborne disease. As expert commentators at ProMED stated, the experiments “demonstrate the susceptibility of pigs to Zaire Ebolavirus and that the virus from infected pigs can be transmitted to macaques under experimental conditions… they fall short of establishing that this is a normal route of transmission in the natural environment.” Furthermore, because human Ebola outbreaks have historically been locally contained, it is unlikely that Ebola can spread between humans via airborne transmission.

However, the study does raise the possibility that pigs are a host for Ebola. If this proves to be true in the wild, there are direct ramifications for prevention and control measures. It is still unclear what role pigs play in the chain of transmission. To continue work on answering this question, the team plans to take samples from pigs in areas known to have recently experienced Ebola outbreaks.
- See more at: http://healthmap.org/site/diseaseda...ola-goes-airborne-112112#sthash.l4lxcR6m.dpuf

 

[jjenny]

Thanks. Yep, it points out pigs do get a severe respiratory infection unlike other species. It exemplifies, like many viruses, transmission between non-human animals is different than human to human. And conclusion that the bottom of your link above does state (keeping within 10% rule here at WS)

What do these findings mean? First and foremost, Ebola is not suddenly an airborne disease. As expert commentators at ProMED stated, the experiments “demonstrate the susceptibility of pigs to Zaire Ebolavirus and that the virus from infected pigs can be transmitted to macaques under experimental conditions… they fall short of establishing that this is a normal route of transmission in the natural environment.” Furthermore, because human Ebola outbreaks have historically been locally contained, it is unlikely that Ebola can spread between humans via airborne transmission.

However, the study does raise the possibility that pigs are a host for Ebola. If this proves to be true in the wild, there are direct ramifications for prevention and control measures. It is still unclear what role pigs play in the chain of transmission. To continue work on answering this question, the team plans to take samples from pigs in areas known to have recently experienced Ebola outbreaks.
- See more at: http://healthmap.org/site/diseaseda...ola-goes-airborne-112112#sthash.l4lxcR6m.dpuf

Well, since scientists can't do the same experiments on humans on how Ebola is transmitted, they don't really know, do they? At least three doctors got infected by this particular strain of Ebola, all were supposedly meticulous about protection. Two of them are dead.
So how did they get it?

 

[gngr~snap]

In the video linked above by Redheadedgal (I think), the medic is the one wearing something on his waist. I suspect it's a rebreather apparatus. You can see him helping the Dr out of the ambulance, and the Dr. uses two hands to maintain balance while exiting - one hand in the medic's control, and his left hand on the side of the ambu. Dr. is not carrying anything.

I also suspect that the walking out was more media than not...meaning, the hue and cry for bringing a gravely ill with ebola man into the US needed some better optics than a gurney and someone being transferred that way. Besides, walking means that exposure to folks around is limited; only one guy there which is very, very odd to me) to be exposed to, rather than a team and a gurney.

I believe, knowing typical hospital protocol is to not let folks walk out to their rides after a stay; meeting incoming patients with gurney and help (e.g. in an ER type situation); and basic safety for patients, folks are not usually ambulating down the corridor from one place to the other...and certainly not someone who, just two days ago, was considered "gravely ill".

I suspect some optics; not saying it was political, not at all. The Dr. himself may have said "look, let me walk in there so people don't think I'm that ill", or whatever...but it certainly was not the typical way a patient goes from an ambulance into the hospital...not in the least.

Best-
Herding cats

Curiouser and curiouser. He also could not be transported by helicopter because they had no way to sterilize it after transport.

I am not gonna argue about how it's transmitted, if they say not through the air fine.
I will point out he is in a negative pressure room, with it's own seperate circulation system. If they are so sure why is this necessary? He could be cared for at an undisclosed location privately almost anywhere if this wasnt a concern.
AIDS lives on a surface anywhere from a few to several minutes. EBOLA for days?
I know if I had to choose between EBOLA and HIV, I'll take HIV please.
Praying it doesn't/hasn't mutated
and we find out it did a month from now...

All posts are MOO

 

[gngr~snap]

Please tell me this family isnt walking around Atlanta!

"Brantly’s wife and children had already left Africa before he became ill. They are now in Texas, under observation by state health officials. The family is now two-thirds of the way through a 21-day “fever watch.” So far, none of them have shown symptoms of the disease."

"CNN said Brantly’s family was expected to see him through a glass wall at Emory later Saturday."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...c09d30-1a72-11e4-9349-84d4a85be981_story.html

Nope they are here. Guess they were at Texas and Atlanta airports as well. nice :no:
They are only 2/3 of the 21 day wait.

Brantly asked to see his wife "alone" today, a person helping the family told ABC News, and the couple spoke via telephone, separated only by a glass window. Amber Brantly came away very optimistic after the conversation, grinning from ear to ear, the person said.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/american-doctor-ebola-walk-georgia-hospital/story?id=24818577
All posts are MOO

 

[redheadedgal]

please don't assume i or anyone else here knows little about the history of GRID/AIDS. honestly, i find it insulting.

watch the cnn interview i linked... there is nothing being done in atlanta that couldn't be done overseas.

if this is nothing to worry about, and it's only contacted thru bodily fluids, why are hundreds of airline passengers being "traced"? surely they didn't all join the "mile high club" with the deceased pt during one flight?

if this is nothing to worry about, why have approx. 60 ebola healthcare workers died while using the necessary precautions?

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/1/5959413...ter-than-our-efforts-to-control-it/in/5712456

if this is nothing to worry about, why won't anyone say how these two people were infected? if they'd been pricked by a needle or found themselves wearing a glove that was cut, wouldn't that be shared by now? why the secrecy?

 

[redheadedgal]

why does she have to separated from her hubs by a glass window? if there's no risk to her (no fluids will be exchanged) why can't she give him a hug?

 

[T4Tide]

Because it's spread someway else. Ever seen an AIDS or Hep B patient placed in a shaming isolation suit?

 

[Foxfire]

I am very concerned about the decision to transport the ebola victims to the US.. This decision goes against all common sense rules of containing an extremely contagious deadly disease, such as the ebola virus, imo.

Dr. Kent Brantly, was transported from Dobbins Airport to Emery U Hospital on a Grady Ambulance. Grady Hospital is the training hospital for Emery U pre med students & interns, and services the general public of Atlanta..

Emery University Hospital's track record in containing contagious diseases in the past is less than stellar, imo;

http://www.journalnow.com/business/...cle_5fd7a51f-8236-5fe0-9a93-3e341408a96c.html

Lawsuits common after discovery of brain disease mishap

The risk of transmitting Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease to patients by contaminated surgical equipment is considered extremely low by federal health officials.
The rare but fatal degenerative brain disorder is caused by a rare type of protein that can adhere to surgical equipment and withstand standard sterilization.
However, the exposure risk from such equipment may be higher than commonly known.

In October 2004, Emory University Hospital in Atlanta acknowledged that at least 516 patients had been exposed to CJD after a brain surgery patient tested positive for the disease in September 2004. There were 98 brain or spinal surgery patients and 418 other non-neurosurgical patients affected by the incident.
______________________________
<BBM>

American physician with Ebola virus arrives in Atlanta for treatment
<Note: Grady Ambulance transport vehicle>
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-ebola-atlanta-20140802-story.html

 

[QueenD]

please don't assume i or anyone else here knows little about the history of GRID/AIDS. honestly, i find it insulting.

watch the cnn interview i linked... there is nothing being done in atlanta that couldn't be done overseas.

if this is nothing to worry about, and it's only contacted thru bodily fluids, why are hundreds of airline passengers being "traced"? surely they didn't all join the "mile high club" with the deceased pt during one flight?

if this is nothing to worry about, why have approx. 60 ebola healthcare workers died while using the necessary precautions?

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/1/5959413...ter-than-our-efforts-to-control-it/in/5712456

if this is nothing to worry about, why won't anyone say how these two people were infected? if they'd been pricked by a needle or found themselves wearing a glove that was cut, wouldn't that be shared by now? why the secrecy?

I wondered the same questions too. Why bring him here? Should have left him and the virus in Africa.

If there is nothing to worry about, why all the suited up people. Why ? I too like to know how the people got infected if it is not airborne?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[redheadedgal]

Thanks. Yep, it points out pigs do get a severe respiratory infection unlike other species. It exemplifies, like many viruses, transmission between non-human animals is different than human to human. And conclusion that the bottom of your link above does state (keeping within 10% rule here at WS)

What do these findings mean? First and foremost, Ebola is not suddenly an airborne disease. As expert commentators at ProMED stated, the experiments “demonstrate the susceptibility of pigs to Zaire Ebolavirus and that the virus from infected pigs can be transmitted to macaques under experimental conditions… they fall short of establishing that this is a normal route of transmission in the natural environment.” Furthermore, because human Ebola outbreaks have historically been locally contained, it is unlikely that Ebola can spread between humans via airborne transmission.

However, the study does raise the possibility that pigs are a host for Ebola. If this proves to be true in the wild, there are direct ramifications for prevention and control measures. It is still unclear what role pigs play in the chain of transmission. To continue work on answering this question, the team plans to take samples from pigs in areas known to have recently experienced Ebola outbreaks.
- See more at: http://healthmap.org/site/diseaseda...ola-goes-airborne-112112#sthash.l4lxcR6m.dpuf

what the actual research says, not a journalist's synopsis: http://healthmap.org/site/users/jane-huston

Contact exposure is considered to be the most important route of infection with EBOV in primates[SUP]7[/SUP], although there are reports suggesting or suspecting aerosol transmission of EBOV from NHP to NHP[SUP]8, 9, 10[/SUP], or in humans based on epidemiological observations.[SUP]11
[/SUP]
The present study provides evidence that infected pigs can efficiently transmit ZEBOV to NHPs in conditions resembling farm setting. Our findings support the hypothesis that airborne transmission may contribute to ZEBOV spread, specifically from pigs to primates, and may need to be considered in assessing transmission from animals to humans in general. The present experimental findings would explain REBOV seropositivity of pig farmers in Philippines[SUP]2, 3[/SUP] that were not involved in slaughtering or had no known contact with contaminated pig tissues.

http://www.nature.com/srep/2012/121115/srep00811/full/srep00811.html#ref11

 

[K.jill]

IMO, this is scary!
If this family has been exposed to ebola a chance exists that one of them could have it. Did they travel by plane? Did they interact with people at the hospital? If so, is that...responsible?
Of course it is wonderful that they could visit with their family member during this horrible time. I just want the powers to be to act responsibly and smartly. Are they????

 

[1&2&3]

The answer to "why" these two Americans are being brought back is for. experimental purposes! The CDC needs a live human with the virus to follow, chart, and experiment on if he takes a turn for the worse. There is no thought or care given to what if someone goofs and all these steps they've taken to build this isolation/containment section do not work. People in research just deal with this. But what doctors, nurses, lab techs will be selected to work in this special unit?

There are so many things coming in and out of a patient's room daily, how are they isolating all of these? It has to be more than just a normal or high risk isolation. It only takes one person to be careless, forgetful, or make a simple mistake, and Ebola will be at Emory.

Just my prediction, Dr. Brantly's career will take a gigantic step if he survives this. I pray he does live!

My opinions only!

 

[redheadedgal]

Curiouser and curiouser. He also could not be transported by helicopter because they had no way to sterilize it after transport.

do you remember where you read/saw this?

i googled "brantly and helicopter" and got this... theory re: faked ambulance transport (OOPS -- GUESS THAT LINK IS NOT WANTED HERE -- SORRY)

 

[atthelake]

Well, since scientists can't do the same experiments on humans on how Ebola is transmitted, they don't really know, do they? At least three doctors got infected by this particular strain of Ebola, all were supposedly meticulous about protection. Two of them are dead.
So how did they get it?

jjenny, I haven't read any releases that have stated how they got it. I'm not sure they had/have/can recreate the exact situation which existed and the other players actions which may have contributed in the 3rd world. I'm sure the epidemiologists are all over it like white on rice though :moo:

As with AIDS in the mid 80's, folks were very scared about transmission. (see http://aids.gov/hiv-aids-basics/hiv-aids-101/how-you-get-hiv-aids/ for current info.) Public outcry as to fear seems similar right now as in the early 80's, yet I can understand how more intense the fears may be as this virus is killing in a shorter period of time, and it's known to be transmitted analagous to Hepatitis B&C (bodily fluids).

Unfortunate to see that many folks are upset on these threads and questioning why these two were brought back for treatment. Again, if it was my loved one, I would appreciate them back here with world class care.

Rules these days are indeed different than in the "old days" as to human experimentation that's for sure, such as with AIDS/SARS/Marburg and other infectious diseases when they came on the map. But we do know how all those viruses are transmitted after epidemiological investigations which used many supportive disciplines.

At this time :moo: it's transmitted analagous to Hepatitis B&C " from direct contact (through broken skin or mucous membranes) with the blood, secretions, organs or other bodily fluids of infected people, and indirect contact with environments contaminated with such fluids." as stated at the WHO site http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs103/en/

 

[jjenny]

why does she have to separated from her hubs by a glass window? if there's no risk to her (no fluids will be exchanged) why can't she give him a hug?

Because if he sneezes or coughs, she can get infected.

 

[jjenny]

IMO, this is scary!
If this family has been exposed to ebola a chance exists that one of them could have it. Did they travel by plane? Did they interact with people at the hospital? If so, is that...responsible?
Of course it is wonderful that they could visit with their family member during this horrible time. I just want the powers to be to act responsibly and smartly. Are they????

Of course they traveled by plane. How else would they get from Liberia to US? Incubation period is up to 21 days (and could actually be as long as 25 days). So once that is up, (it hasn't been 21 days yet) it will become clear if his family is infected or not.

 

[craftybatchy]

Hospital officials have not confirmed that Dr. Brantly is one of the persons observed exiting the ambulance. What has been confirmed is that he is now receiving care at Emory. I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but in this case, I wouldn't be too shocked too learn that the ambulance was a decoy and the Dr. entered the facility via a more discreet entrance.