An honest question...

[colomom]

This is the part that always stumps me. Where do you hide a reeking dead body for more than three weeks without the smell being noticed by someone?

Most of the time a neighbor, a cleaning person, or a passerby etc. reports a foul odor when a body is decomposing in the vicinity.

Ok, here's the deal....

Click here to see a Google Map of Praia Da Luz.

http://tinyurl.com/3cxzrt

Here is a copy of the map, note the Ocean Club is dead center.

Notice how close the outskirts of town are (to the right)? Notice the scrubland, no buildings?

Finally a closeup of the bushes, they are big and wide.

Here is a really close shot. That is the Monument that Gerry blogged about running to in the early days, remember?

http://www.traveluzion.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=11&=13

I think you can see what I am getting at. You should use the Google Map and move around yourself. Look to the south, look to the east.

 

[CaliKid]

I know this sounds gross, but how long would it take a dead body to smell like a dead body? At the time of Madeleine's disappearance, it was approximately 75 degrees fahrenheit during the day, and I'm assuming she was wrapped up somehow. I wonder if she could've been placed outside in the brush for a few days- long enough to get her away from the apartments in case they were checked and far enough away from PDL that any grid searches wouldn't discover her.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I know this sounds gross, but how long would it take a dead body to smell like a dead body? At the time of Madeleine's disappearance, it was approximately 75 degrees fahrenheit during the day, and I'm assuming she was wrapped up somehow. I wonder if she could've been placed outside in the brush for a few days- long enough to get her away from the apartments in case they were checked and far enough away from PDL that any grid searches wouldn't discover her.

She could have been stored in the cooler at the church. Did the church have a parish hall? We have a little tiny church, but there is a full kitchen complete with a large refrigerator/freezer. (Thinking of the bag found a few weeks ago with congealed hair)

 

[Tuba]

Well, Father Jose Pacheco may have indulged the McCanns but not to that point. The church was being regularly used by parishioners and some staff. Such an item in a freezer or refrigerator would not go unnoticed for three wks. I think we need to research just how far afield the sniffer dogs went. I know they walked at least 10 minutes from The Ocean Club, the apts. but the directions I know about were the way bundleman went and to the beach. Perhaps they also covered some other territory--why would they not? They were looking for Madeleine and there was a considerable radius to investigate.

 

[Tuba]

It was a nine mile radius that was searched. Not bad for a START.

 

[Barnaby]

Did I post before the possibility of putting madeleines remains in a coffin that was lying at rest in the Church? Usually the coffin is closed for burial but lies overnight before in the church. I would love to know if anyones remains were in the church. It would have been very easy to conceal Madeleines tiny body under the covering & then she would have had a christian burial. It would be hard for PJ to traumatise a bereaved family by asking to dig up coffins so pretty safe i would think but then again if I thought of it, I'm sure PJ have.

 

[Pinkhammer]

Thanks for the review of the maps. I have looked at them before, and conjectured how Gerry could smuggle her body up there and hide her in the scrub brush. First of all, in his nearly regularly intoxicated state, how on earth could he remember which bush he buried her under? Besides the body, he would have had to take along a shovel. We know how he brags of being a strong and great runner, but even on steroids this would be a hard feat to accomplish.

I'm not saying it's impossible, only that there must be a more plausible explanation of where Maddie's body was for the three weeks before they rented the Renault.

 

[Barnaby]

Thanks for the review of the maps. I have looked at them before, and conjectured how Gerry could smuggle her body up there and hide her in the scrub brush. First of all, in his nearly regularly intoxicated state, how on earth could he remember which bush he buried her under? Besides the body, he would have had to take along a shovel. We know how he brags of being a strong and great runner, but even on steroids this would be a hard feat to accomplish.

I'm not saying it's impossible, only that there must be a more plausible explanation of where Maddie's body was for the three weeks before they rented the Renault.

Are you sure that Madeleines body was hidden for three weeks before it was in the Scenic? Didn't Russell O'Brien have that same car on May 3rd?

 

[colomom]

Thanks for the review of the maps. I have looked at them before, and conjectured how Gerry could smuggle her body up there and hide her in the scrub brush. First of all, in his nearly regularly intoxicated state, how on earth could he remember which bush he buried her under? Besides the body, he would have had to take along a shovel. We know how he brags of being a strong and great runner, but even on steroids this would be a hard feat to accomplish.

I'm not saying it's impossible, only that there must be a more plausible explanation of where Maddie's body was for the three weeks before they rented the Renault.

Gotcha, my really good friend

Ok, ok, ok, ok (think...Joe Pesci)....

I think the taking and hiding occurred before the booze fest (if there was one, pure speculation) and the hiding was actually done via car (not the Scenic) and was done south of the resort, toward Bergau, near parkland...she was laid bare. I still do not believe she was ever moved. I think it may have been clothing that was removed and moved, in the Scenic.

No shovel, laid out topside, perhaps inside a large bush, they are all over, my pictures were just to give you an idea about how you could hide a body without being detected by smell....

My ideas are very much influenced by the intuition (psychic) of our friend MoonGoddess. When she told me her "findings" back in June I was completely blown away. If she could tell you the things she told me....you would be amazed. That is all I can say. I think you can tell I have dropped hints, but I cannot tell you her intuition. She would have to do that herself. I wish she could be here with us but she is struggling right now.

Anyway, take what you want, discard the rest, each of us needs to come to our own conclusions. I still think someday we will know the truth and then we can go back and say....wow....you were right/wrong.

Until then I offer my thoughts, instincts and intuition. I do not expect you to believe everything I say, just consider...add it to your own...how does it fit?

I am very tired of all of this, I need to be more in my own life. I have tried and tried and tried to back out BUT, something, bigger than me keeps pulling me back.

So much for all that stuff....

ALL of you!

 

[colomom]

Are you sure that Madeleines body was hidden for three weeks before it was in the Scenic? Didn't Russell O'Brien have that same car on May 3rd?

Don't know if that has ever been confirmed. I think there was another car (no one has mentioned) involved....nuff said.

 

[Tuba]

I have seen on the web, one cite, that Russell O'Brien had a car. I know that Js. Gorrod also of Exeter and who traveled to PDL with him, had a car. The list of five drivers who hired the Renault Scenic before the McCanns did is apparently protected by the PJ. I have tried several times to bring up there names on search engines but no luck at all. I can understand why the PJ would guard the privacy of the other renters & they have all been "cleared". I would think that term "cleared" would not apply to Russell O'Brien.

 

[Texana]

I think hiding a body would be much easier in a little rural area than anyone suspects. At least once or twice a year, we have one turn up around here, dumped, but found because a farmer was in the area.

I remember reading during the Laci Peterson trial--and I think it was in an Ann Rule book--that it takes only about a year for a body to be lost completely in a wilderness area. Truly, if no one is hiking or farming nearby, the scent does not matter.

That said, I think she was in the Renault for a fairly short amount of time before being disposed of permanently, either at sea or buried in a very difficult place to excavate. Even if she is found after all this time, there will be little forensic evidence to help find her killers.

Remember Chandra Levy? I remember watching the deputy police search, and just based on their actions thinking "They will never find her that way." They were clearly urban people NOT used to searching the wilderness park. And of course, her remains turned up very near to where they were searching.

That will be a tragedy.

 

[Barnaby]

Gotcha, my really good friend

Ok, ok, ok, ok (think...Joe Pesci)....

I think the taking and hiding occurred before the booze fest (if there was one, pure speculation) and the hiding was actually done via car (not the Scenic) and was done south of the resort, toward Bergau, near parkland...she was laid bare. I still do not believe she was ever moved. I think it may have been clothing that was removed and moved, in the Scenic.

No shovel, laid out topside, perhaps inside a large bush, they are all over, my pictures were just to give you an idea about how you could hide a body without being detected by smell....

My ideas are very much influenced by the intuition (psychic) of our friend MoonGoddess. When she told me her "findings" back in June I was completely blown away. If she could tell you the things she told me....you would be amazed. That is all I can say. I think you can tell I have dropped hints, but I cannot tell you her intuition. She would have to do that herself. I wish she could be here with us but she is struggling right now.

Anyway, take what you want, discard the rest, each of us needs to come to our own conclusions. I still think someday we will know the truth and then we can go back and say....wow....you were right/wrong.

Until then I offer my thoughts, instincts and intuition. I do not expect you to believe everything I say, just consider...add it to your own...how does it fit?

I am very tired of all of this, I need to be more in my own life. I have tried and tried and tried to back out BUT, something, bigger than me keeps pulling me back.

So much for all that stuff....

ALL of you!

I do tend to agree with the theory that Madeleine was killed & already removed before the dinner!

Wow! Would love to hear MoonGoddess speak on her findings! Hope she is doing ok! I wonder did she email any thoughts to PJ?

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

...My ideas are very much influenced by the intuition (psychic) of our friend MoonGoddess. When she told me her "findings" back in June I was completely blown away. If she could tell you the things she told me....you would be amazed. That is all I can say. I think you can tell I have dropped hints, but I cannot tell you her intuition. She would have to do that herself. I wish she could be here with us but she is struggling right now.

Anyway, take what you want, discard the rest, each of us needs to come to our own conclusions.... !

You know, it's this kind of poop that really irks me. Don't toy with us. If you can't tell, don't brink it up...thats child play.

You sound like my teenage drama queen, "I know something you don't know...and I won't tell you" :doh:

So are your conclusions based on what you think or on what Moongoddess told you?

 

[colomom]

You know, it's this kind of poop that really irks me. Don't toy with us. If you can't tell, don't brink it up...thats child play.

You sound like my teenage drama queen, "I know something you don't know...and I won't tell you" :doh:

So are your conclusions based on what you think or on what Moongoddess told you?

Be nice IW....

My conclusions are definitley a collaboration, MoonGoddess and I have been in very close contact for many months.

I only say "nuff said" because I do not want to speak for her. Her theories are based on things I cannot explain, I am not a student of hers. I will ask her to consider posting more information, if it is that important to you.

Search her name, she does not have all that many posts. Read my theory (first one on the thread). You can figure out the conclusion. Trying to give you all the detail of how we arrived at that conclusion would require teaching you the ancient art of Tarot, or something like that. And, no she does not read tarot cards, it is different. I could not begin to explain. It is waaaaaay to complicated and I am not a intuit myself.

Oh and BTW....you can't tell by now that I am a Drama Queen?? I thought it was obvious

 

[Pinkhammer]

Thanks for a very interesting discussion about where and when the body was removed; where it may have been concealed (or not); and all the intuitions, hunches, and conjectures.

This is what we do here...we analyze; we make educated guesses; we use both logic and intuition to put together the various scenarios.

Don't any of you ever change. It would be no fun at all if we all agreed on every little detail.

 

[Barnaby]

Thanks for a very interesting discussion about where and when the body was removed; where it may have been concealed (or not); and all the intuitions, hunches, and conjectures.

This is what we do here...we analyze; we make educated guesses; we use both logic and intuition to put together the various scenarios.

Don't any of you ever change. It would be no fun at all if we all agreed on every little detail.

Thanks Pink, I add my thanks to all also. I find discussion so interesting here & everyone so nice! Life would be boring if we all agreed