An honest question...

[Salem]

From: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...ews.html?in_article_id=481705&in_page_id=1811

"Pamela Fenn, 81, who lives in the flat above, is reported to have heard Madeleine crying for her 'daddy' and sounds of 'violence'. Mrs Fenn has since denied she told police any such thing."



From my post:
"It would look better for the McCanns to say they left the children alone every night rather than admit they had a sitter every night except the last?"

Colomom - I don't believe Mrs. Fenn ever meant to deny she heard Maddie crying. If you look at the other media reports, Mrs. Fenn appears to be denying the additional claims the media attributed to her. Things such as the McCanns fighting and screaming and having fits of violence. From what I can tell, Mrs. Fenn never said those things to begin with, all she said was that she had heard Maddie crying and she complained to the management. In my opinion, after reading many, many of these articles, Mrs. Fenn never denied anything she actually said, only those things she never said to begin with.

:twocents: Salem

 

[Tuba]

I went back to read p. 3 in this thread. I think the statements in the interview are ambiguous and as usual, suffer from different language usage. I do know that Catriona Baker was available every night as a sitter after she left the club. Dismiss could mean, from her assignment to Madeleine for the day, in other words, "We won't need you for the evening". I do know & have written here that Baker was introduced to the McCanns at the onset of their holiday and that she took the assignment to Madeleine. We will have to look into whether she sat on other nights or not. If they used her previous nights and then not after the complaint and the warning from management, that would be stubborn, defiant, perverse and reckless. Also, point of interest: management warned the McCanns to get a sitter in or go to the creche but I have never seen that MW divulged that there had been burglaries.

 

[colomom]

A mirror poster (RstJ) that I have often "listened to" posted this:

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=25300&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

"Never happened. Just like about 95% of what we've been told about this case is either made-up, wrong, or deliberately distorted. (talking about the screaming crying report).

But this claim is probably true. For one thing, it has a name attached to it. It's not attributed to some "source." And, for a change, it also makes sense.

Of course they had a sitter! Christ, four couples with kids, all using the creche during the day, you really think they're going to leave the kids unattended at night and have to get up to deal with them when they started howling and annoying the other guests? You think anybody wants to get up from their dinner, wine, and pub quiz to go "check"? Why would they do something like this? To save themselves the price of about one bottle of wine? Please. The resort was chosen because it specializes in this kind of child care.

I'm as guilty as anyone else. I bought into the McCanns' story about "checking" every half hour w/o bothering to think why Gerry would put such emphasis on it. I never stopped to think just how stupid it was to think a bunch of people who dumped their kids on the hotel staff all day would decide to handle their own arrangements at night despite sitters being available. And no, they weren't villagers drafted in for the night. I mean, please. You think any insurance company's going to underwrite that kind of arrangement? The sitters were
MW staff. We've seen two of them: Baker and Pennington.

We've all seen Kate in action. Does anyone really believe she's going to take care of her own kids for almost three hours, alone, while Gerry's off playing tennis when she could just dump them on a babysitter *like she did the rest of the day and continued to do even after the abduction*!?!

We've been colossal fools. We bought into the McCanns "checking" story without ever bothering to consider whether they were just lying, as they've done on so many other occasions."

Still thinking.....

 

[colomom]

Colomom - I don't believe Mrs. Fenn ever meant to deny she heard Maddie crying. If you look at the other media reports, Mrs. Fenn appears to be denying the additional claims the media attributed to her. Things such as the McCanns fighting and screaming and having fits of violence. From what I can tell, Mrs. Fenn never said those things to begin with, all she said was that she had heard Maddie crying and she complained to the management. In my opinion, after reading many, many of these articles, Mrs. Fenn never denied anything she actually said, only those things she never said to begin with.

:twocents: Salem

Hi Salem!!

I actually read at one point that Pamela Fenn said she never spoke to the police....period.

I am searching for the link.

 

[Tuba]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/20/nmaddy120.xml

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...064&in_page_id=1811&ICO=WORLD_NEWS&ICL=TOPART


These articles tell of Fenn traveling back to PDL for police interviews but only discuss the burglaries and the lurking man seen by her niece.

 

[Tuba]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/16750/Widow-with-vital-clues-was-never-questioned-

Months drug by & this witness was never deposed. Finally the PJ questioned Fenn and at that time learned about the 1 May crying. Every newspaper gives a different age for this woman ranging from 71, 73 -80 and 81. But all reports are replete w. inaccuracies as we well know now. I agree w. members who are impatient & frustrated w. the bad reporting on the case, however we have little else. I do like the interviews w. retired LE and the criminalists such as the 5 Brits who went to PDL in Sep.-Oct. They are straight shooters. You may not agree w. them but they don't spin and they don't prevaricate. As for the PJ, they are not supposed to be talking at all, nor the GNR and they are definitely engaged in an attempt to salvage their rep. Even the latest news from the GNR blames senior officers and detectives whereas the two interviewed officers say they were appalled at how the investigation was conducted. FSS would give us credible news but makes it clear ! that results are not discussed. That is policy and it is also the way they get their work done. Therefore I think we know only a very few details about this case, very few. That said, I do not like to accuse anyone of lying. Many people involved in the case state matters in a way which represents their perception and prejudice but that doesn't mean they are consciously lying in their presentation of what they see as "facts", "events", "actions". I am thinking of both levels of Portuguese law enforcement but really, including everyone on the ground there.

 

[CaliKid]

What is sounds like to me is FSS is telling the PJ that the evidence is either so contaminated they can't use it or without a body they don't have a case, and now the P-LE agencies are busy pointing fingers at everyone else to absolve themselves of blame.

 

[Tuba]

That about sums up the rumours but IF there was fluid from a corpse, that is strong evidence even if contaminated. DNA is so fragile but reeking vile fluids from a body long dead, whether badly handled or not--powerful showing that someone was hauled in that car. We don't know that such fluid was there, however. I did notice that when such a report (unsourced) surfaced in September the news was verbatim what it was this past week ending. As in recycled unattributed rumour. It may be true and it may lack any basis in fact. FSS doesn't talk about what they are doing, what they have, or the end result of testing. If the PJ is spilling this information, they are not only breaking the law but defying their new
chief of investigation Paulo Rebelo who has ordered no leaks.

 

[Trino]

If the PJ is spilling this information, they are not only breaking the law but defying their new chief of investigation Paulo Rebelo who has ordered no leaks.

Maybe. But, maybe, too, they are frustrated with being labeled world incompetents. If what they said is true, there's likely no police force that could have secured an already compromised crime site.

I truly agree with the last statement by the officer that the McCanns will forever be known as the couple that got away with it and that this was a fair price.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...tml?in_article_id=491940&in_page_id=1811&ct=5

 

[philamena]

What is sounds like to me is FSS is telling the PJ that the evidence is either so contaminated they can't use it or without a body they don't have a case, and now the P-LE agencies are busy pointing fingers at everyone else to absolve themselves of blame.

That one paragraph sadly reminds me of Natalee Holloway's case.

 

[wtsn5]

A mirror poster (RstJ) that I have often "listened to" posted this:

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=25300&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

"Never happened. Just like about 95% of what we've been told about this case is either made-up, wrong, or deliberately distorted. (talking about the screaming crying report).

But this claim is probably true. For one thing, it has a name attached to it. It's not attributed to some "source." And, for a change, it also makes sense.

This statement claims it is true because it has a name attached but I can't for the life of me find the name that is attached to it. Have I missed this or was this linked to something else?

If it is true and the McCanns had had sitters every other night except may 3rd that changes my position on the fence - but why after 6 months is this coming to light.

 

[emery]

I truly agree with the last statement by the officer that the McCanns will forever be known as the couple that got away with it and that this was a fair price.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...tml?in_article_id=491940&in_page_id=1811&ct=5

If the McCanns killed their daughter and covered it up, this is absolutely not a fair price. Nothing but prosecution and sentencing can approximate a fair price.

If they had nothing to do with their daughter's disappearance and yet they are under a cloud of suspicion for the rest of their lives because of incompetent police investigators, that is a (second) tragedy.

In either case, the killer goes free. In my opinion, there is nothing good about the failure to secure the crime scene as soon as possible and this investigator is merely rationalizing so he can sleep at night.

 

[CaliKid]

I can see this case dragging on forever with no closure. I know absolutely nothing about Portugal's weather and temperature, but my biggest hope is that any storms they have over the winter will bring Madeleine's body out into the open. Erosion, loss of folliage, or heavy surf- all could reveal her location if she was buried or thrown into the sea.

 

[Barnaby]

Maybe. But, maybe, too, they are frustrated with being labeled world incompetents. If what they said is true, there's likely no police force that could have secured an already compromised crime site.

I truly agree with the last statement by the officer that the McCanns will forever be known as the couple that got away with it and that this was a fair price.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...tml?in_article_id=491940&in_page_id=1811&ct=5

No I don't agree that if they are killing their daughter, dumping her body & pulling off the biggest money scam in a long time that that is a fair price. They need to be exposed for the callous, evil people they are! IF they did it that is!

 

[Pinkhammer]

That about sums up the rumours but IF there was fluid from a corpse, that is strong evidence even if contaminated. DNA is so fragile but reeking vile fluids from a body long dead, whether badly handled or not--powerful showing that someone was hauled in that car. .

This is the part that always stumps me. Where do you hide a reeking dead body for more than three weeks without the smell being noticed by someone?

Most of the time a neighbor, a cleaning person, or a passerby etc. reports a foul odor when a body is decomposing in the vicinity.

 

[Tuba]

That's exactly the objection posed by the forensic pathologists. Of course, the majority of reports have referred to the find as bodily fluids, so it may have been urine from sopping diapers. Unlike some white wines, the bouquet does not improve w. age. There may have been a phew! reaction to it which led to the rumours about corpse excreta.

 

[Tuba]

Here's my honest question. Aren't the re-interviews with the Tapas 7 overdue by 2+ weeks? These witness/parties of interest are ready with their att'ys and are expecting the interrogation from the English police with the PJ in attendance.

 

[Pinkhammer]

Things certainly do move slowly in this case. The Tapas Seven should have been re-interviewed early and often, IMHO.

 

[emery]

Here's my honest question. Aren't the re-interviews with the Tapas 7 overdue by 2+ weeks? These witness/parties of interest are ready with their att'ys and are expecting the interrogation from the English police with the PJ in attendance.

Perhaps the police are still getting all their ducks in a row. If they are still finding evidence that might link the McCanns to the disappearance -- such as this dumped bag -- they might be waiting to gather as much information about it first so they can ask about it in the interviews. For example, you might want to know first whether any of the Tapas 9's DNA or fingerprints are on the bag or the items inside it, whether any of them had a bag fitting that description while in Portugal, or whether the McCanns had a matching bag or any of the other items.

 

[emery]

From a London Times article today:

"Meanwhile, Portuguese detectives are still preparing to travel to Britain to reinterview at least four of the seven British friends who were on holiday with the McCann family in Praia da Luz.
The friends are likely to be made official suspects so that they can be challenged about apparent inconsistencies in their witnesses statements and to allow them to have a lawyer present during the interviews."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2813659.ece