An honest question...

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
They cannot have the same emotions invested as the McCanns who went through IVF to get Madeleine,who waited 9 months for her,who rejoiced at her arrival.Being emotionally involved has many connotations IMO.

Daffodil, I know you can't speak to this comment, however, for many of us it seems quite strange that a couple would go through all that they endured to conceive Maddy only to neglect her. I'd like to know why they didn't cherish her as much as most parents would.
 
Daffodil, I know you can't speak to this comment, however, for many of us it seems quite strange that a couple would go through all that they endured to conceive Maddy only to neglect her. I'd like to know why they didn't cherish her as much as most parents would.

Its impossible to say they didnt cherish her,we dont know that.I dont believe they viewed it as neglect JMHO.
 
YES!! The Police are not emotionally involved.

Seems to me I'm emotionally involved, I post here daily. I don't know the McCanns, never met them in my life, you say you don't know them as well. I see very emotionlly charged post on this board from 100's of people, (including both of us) who have never met any of the people involved. If there are so many of us emotional about a child that all we know about has been from the computer and TV, how can anyone say the police, who have been working this case night and day, either on the record, or off for the last 6 months are not emotionally involved?
 
Its impossible to say they didnt cherish her,we dont know that.I dont believe they viewed it as neglect JMHO.

Whether they viewed it that way or not, leaving three toddlers alone is neglect. In my mind, you don't neglect someone that you cherish.
 
Its impossible to say they didnt cherish her,we dont know that.I dont believe they viewed it as neglect JMHO.

Leaving children that age alone in the US is a criminal offense, but there are no laws in England regarding the age a child can be home alone. So since there are no laws, it must be fine to do so.

In the US, there are no laws regarding the age of bungee jumping in a pit full of cobras, so I guess, I'll let my 3 year old give it a whirl. While we are at it, I'll let his 2 baby sisters go along for the ride. They'll love it, and I'll watch from the far side of the pit, 100 yards away, while enjoying a nice bottle of Merlot, and playing musical chairs with 8 friends.
 
Its impossible to say they didnt cherish her,we dont know that.I dont believe they viewed it as neglect JMHO.


You do not neglect anything that you cherish, they neglected Madeleine therefore they did not cherish her or the twins!
There is no other way to look at it regardless of how the McCanns see it. The old saying "there are none so blind as those who will not see" It is not they will not see they cannot see, they cannot admit they were so horribly wrong, they are too damned arrogant for that! If they had the decency to admit it they might have more sympathy!

This has been said over & over but I am going to say it again! You do NOT leave 3 children under 4 years of age in an unlocked or a locked for that matter apartment while you go out drinking with your friends!
They were warned of burglaries for Gods sake by the MW staff, frankly I think their sanity should be examined!
 
Daffodil, I know you can't speak to this comment, however, for many of us it seems quite strange that a couple would go through all that they endured to conceive Maddy only to neglect her. I'd like to know why they didn't cherish her as much as most parents would.

I don't for a minute condone what the McCanns did in leaving three very small children alone. It was negligence plain and simple.

However, I don't think that means that they are bad parents generally. They exercised bad judgment in that instance. But, I think many parents who love and cherish their children have moments of bad judgment. My views on what risks I am willing to take with my children are probably different than other parents' views. I may think they are being negligent or they may think I am being negligent. But I don't think either of us thinks the other doesn't love and cherish our children. We just think each other's risk assessment is faulty.
 
Leaving children that age alone in the US is a criminal offense, but there are no laws in England regarding the age a child can be home alone.

Actually, this is not generally true. Whether and at what age it is unlawful to leave a child alone in the U.S. varies by state. There is no uniform standard. And in some states, like mine for instance, there is no age designation in the child abandonment statute. Also, whether something is child neglect and whether it is a crime can be two different things. One might get your children taken away, the other might get you arrested, prosecuted and even jailed or fined.

All that said, whether something is criminal shouldn't govern whether it is child neglect. Many acts of negligence aren't criminalized. Many negligent acts by parents aren't criminalized, but may warrant an investigation by social services and perhaps court intervention.
 
"bad judgment in that instance" goes to character/values, which is what forms our judgments and decisions.

The decision to leave the three children alone was not a spur of the moment, quick call (should I leave the car running while I run in and get milk from the convenience store? Can I answer the phone with baby lying on the bed?) that in hindsight you realize was just stupid.

It was, as explained repeatedly by the McCanns, a considered judgment that they made not once, but would actually do again if they had to-as Gerry himself said.

Just because they look like nice people, because they are well-educated, and because they don't like the stereotypical "neglectful" parents doesn't mean that you can assume they were great parents. Please believe me when I say I have met hundreds of parents and good ones and bad ones come in all shapes, ethnic groups, and economic groups. Some are good and work at it, some are bad simply because they don't know any better and are doing the best they can, and some are just neglectful or selfish because that's the kind of people they are, they do not believe they can or should be told what to do (the McCanns fall into this category.) They are successful, educated people who think that because they are not "that" kind of people, they are automatically given a kind of pass on all their decisions.
 
Well said Texana! BTW do you have a link to where Gerry said they would do it again please.
 
"bad judgment in that instance" goes to character/values, which is what forms our judgments and decisions.

The decision to leave the three children alone was not a spur of the moment, quick call (should I leave the car running while I run in and get milk from the convenience store? Can I answer the phone with baby lying on the bed?) that in hindsight you realize was just stupid.

It was, as explained repeatedly by the McCanns, a considered judgment that they made not once, but would actually do again if they had to-as Gerry himself said.

Just because they look like nice people, because they are well-educated, and because they don't like the stereotypical "neglectful" parents doesn't mean that you can assume they were great parents. Please believe me when I say I have met hundreds of parents and good ones and bad ones come in all shapes, ethnic groups, and economic groups. Some are good and work at it, some are bad simply because they don't know any better and are doing the best they can, and some are just neglectful or selfish because that's the kind of people they are, they do not believe they can or should be told what to do (the McCanns fall into this category.) They are successful, educated people who think that because they are not "that" kind of people, they are automatically given a kind of pass on all their decisions.

Having worked in a juvenile court in deprivation proceedings, I also know that neglectful parents can come from all different backgrounds.

But, I don't think the McCann's exercise of bad judgment means they didn't love and cherish their children. I think parents who smoke around their children, parents who drive around with their children not strapped into a booster, parents who don't keep an eye on their children while they're swimming at a public pool are all neglectful, but I don't confuse that with not loving them. There are lots of things some parents do that I don't agree with and think is not wise parenting. But, I don't think that means they don't love their children.
 
Having worked in a juvenile court in deprivation proceedings, I also know that neglectful parents can come from all different backgrounds.

But, I don't think the McCann's exercise of bad judgment means they didn't love and cherish their children. I think parents who smoke around their children, parents who drive around with their children not strapped into a booster, parents who don't keep an eye on their children while they're swimming at a public pool are all neglectful, but I don't confuse that with not loving them. There are lots of things some parents do that I don't agree with and think is not wise parenting. But, I don't think that means they don't love their children.

I agree, Emery, I understand what you mean. Those were the parents I meant when I said that some are just doing the best they can do. Not every one gets this.

It is like a colleague of mine said when we had the dentist volunteer in school for "screenings" (Note: My own child, who gets her teeth regularly cleaned and has had zero cavities, was identified as failing the screening because her teeth are crooked and she will most definitely need braces at some point, and she came home crying because Dentist had "failed" her in the screening, thank you very much.) She pointed out: "People know they should take their kids to the dentist. If they don't, it's because they haven't the money or the means. Making this big humiliating deal isn't going to change a thing."

So I do get what you mean.

But there is another class of parent, that is more of the wealthy and educated class. They have worked for their situation/status, but they do consider themselves somewhat privileged and beyond criticism/reproach.

I can't risk my job to talk about them in detail, but there is--fortunately, not the minority, but a considerable amount--of people who feel that by their wealth and success and profession, they are entitled to disregard anything that is not convenient for them as parents.

Do they love their children? Well, sure. But if that "love" requires them to give up a social event, to sacrifice a vacation to Hawaii during the school year, to cut short a tennis or golf event for the child--Well, no, they don't do that. They would tell you that they must maintain their own personal "space" or "sense of self" or any other word that would justify not putting the child first.

The child comes first for them only so long as they are not inconvenienced not only in their professional career but their downtime/personal pursuits as well.

The McCanns wanted it both ways. They did not want to take a nanny along on their vacation or deal with the night time creche issues, but they wanted to have their dinner and socializing time with their friends and so they chose repeatedly to leave three small children alone in a resort room.

Unlike other parents who make poor judgments or decisions, the McCanns had the knowledge and ability to make better choices. They simply chose not to.

So while we can agree perhaps that they think they loved their children, we have to agree also that in action, which is where emotion proves itself, they fell far short.
 
Having worked in a juvenile court in deprivation proceedings, I also know that neglectful parents can come from all different backgrounds.

But, I don't think the McCann's exercise of bad judgment means they didn't love and cherish their children. I think parents who smoke around their children, parents who drive around with their children not strapped into a booster, parents who don't keep an eye on their children while they're swimming at a public pool are all neglectful, but I don't confuse that with not loving them. There are lots of things some parents do that I don't agree with and think is not wise parenting. But, I don't think that means they don't love their children.

I think the people the McCanns love is themselves. They see the children as possessions, proof that they've "made it in life" to trot out when it suits them, not independent human beings in need of nurturing, guidance and responsible parenting.

It's been widely publicized and discussed that the McCanns went to Portugal thinking that the MW resort had some sort of baby-minding service which would send people around to the flats to make sure the children were okay. So they get there and find this isn't true. Oh dear! What do we do? Do they use the creche at night or hire a nanny to babysit? No. They go out- every single night and leave them to fend for themselves.

They put the children at risk, thereby saying their fun was more important than their offspring's safety. More important than Madeleine's fears and comfort, as Mrs. Fenn has testified that their daughter screamed and cried for Gerry on May 1.

So no, I truly don't think they love their children as much as they love Kate and Gerry.
 
I think I just posted in the wrong forum.. anyway..
as parents and caretakers we spend most of our time watching and protecting them from what they do not know is a danger.. day and night
children have human needs at all times..they might have to go pee, they might dreams about something scary, they might wake up thirsty.. or just because they want to make sure you are there..
children know they need you as the caretaker to give them safety, just as we know we must watch them all the time because they cannot differentiate from dangerous things..a kid will touch without worry an electrical outlet, put whatever in their mouths.. its our jobs to protect them. like every other mammal protects their young..
Did Madeleine's parents do that?
Whatever their inner turmoil if they are not the ones who did it, must be their absolute neglect of this children..
If it was me I am sure I would go to jail, so should they.. then again I would choose not have kids rather than abandon them like that
 
I don't dispute that their actions were negligence. Even gross negligence.

None of us knows the McCanns well enough to know whether that negligence was the result of selfishness or poor judgment or a little of both.
 
Calikid, good point, I had forgotten the significance of that. They planned on using the baby listening service, but they stuck with their original decision not to use the night time nanny or creche services.

But maybe this mindset was common with the entire group; if his testimony is true, Russell Oldfield did not interrupt his evening out when his child became ill.
 
I don't for a minute condone what the McCanns did in leaving three very small children alone. It was negligence plain and simple.

However, I don't think that means that they are bad parents generally. They exercised bad judgment in that instance.

You mean they exercised bad judgment for the whole week? It wasn't a one time thing where it was the first time they decided to leave the kids alone, they left them in that same situation every single day for a whole week! Bad judgment? Nah, complete idiocy to me.
 
You mean they exercised bad judgment for the whole week? It wasn't a one time thing where it was the first time they decided to leave the kids alone, they left them in that same situation every single day for a whole week! Bad judgment? Nah, complete idiocy to me.

Yes, while they were on vacation, they exercised bad judgment about what to do with their children while they went to dinner.

Just as some parents have decided that their 5 year olds don't need to sit in a booster seat anymore or some mothers think it's okay to nurse their babies in the backseat while their husbands drive. These are all judgment calls -- a considered decision was made, sometimes repeatedly. In my opinion, they are bad judgment calls, but they are judgment calls nonetheless.

My nine year old son has a friend in the neighborhood who's parents have decided he is old enough to leave the yard and play in the neighborhood without them knowing exactly where he is as long as he comes home by a certain time. So, he has taken to walking around and playing where ever he finds other kids. The other day he showed up at our doorstep and asked if my son could play. I said yes, but only if they stayed in our yard.

I disagree with his parents' assessment of how much unsupervised freedom a nine-year-old boy should have. I don't think his parents are bad parents generally, I don't think they don't love and cherish their son, I don't think they are lazy, selfish upper-middle-class professionals who can't be bothered. We just disagree about what is acceptable.
 
Yes, while they were on vacation, they exercised bad judgment about what to do with their children while they went to dinner.

Just as some parents have decided that their 5 year olds don't need to sit in a booster seat anymore or some mothers think it's okay to nurse their babies in the backseat while their husbands drive. These are all judgment calls -- a considered decision was made, sometimes repeatedly. In my opinion, they are bad judgment calls, but they are judgment calls nonetheless.

My nine year old son has a friend in the neighborhood who's parents have decided he is old enough to leave the yard and play in the neighborhood without them knowing exactly where he is as long as he comes home by a certain time. So, he has taken to walking around and playing where ever he finds other kids. The other day he showed up at our doorstep and asked if my son could play. I said yes, but only if they stayed in our yard.

I disagree with his parents' assessment of how much unsupervised freedom a nine-year-old boy should have. I don't think his parents are bad parents generally, I don't think they don't love and cherish their son, I don't think they are lazy, selfish upper-middle-class professionals who can't be bothered. We just disagree about what is acceptable.

People have different standards.

What is okay for some, is not okay for others.
 
No wonder MOST children who end up being kidnapped, tortured, sexually abused by pedophiles are those who were NOT being supervised by their parents.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
105
Guests online
1,555
Total visitors
1,660

Forum statistics

Threads
599,578
Messages
18,096,973
Members
230,884
Latest member
DeeDee214
Back
Top