Anthony's Finally Doubt Casey's Innocence?

[Duckley]

lol, evan's mom - there are 6 billion people on earth. some of us know ourselves well enough to define certain lines we are incapable of crossing, some of us don't. i don't pretend to speak for everyone, i am speaking of myself. i am not speaking of you or anyone else. how could i know what you know of yourself? you have no idea who i am either. you cannot speak for me. i find it strange that so many people seem unable to accept, or are irritated by the fact that one solitary human being has said that they know who they are and they are not someone who could behave as the anthony's have. i'm just not dysfunctional enough, deceitful enough, stupid enough, arrogant enough or even strong enough to pull off the performance given by cindy and george since july. i could not do it. i lack the required qualities. it's not a choice and if it were, i would still approach this differently. if a child of mine could kill their own child then they have to be somewhere they can't harm anyone else and i need to protect those i love from the glare of the media, not fuel it. i know my own mind. that's all. many people do.

Agreed - well said!

 

[lin]

Well Cindy, certainly did not use the media effectively. She never once pled for Caylees return, she never once made a heartfelt emotional plea. IMO. But she did call the media leeches and maggots. hmmm I don't think she used the tools available at all. She was too busy using the media to try and spin Kc's innocence, instead of showing worry and concern for Caylee.. IMO

Exactly! It was all, 'Don't confuse me with the facts.' If anyone had a script, it was Cindy and George, imo.

 

[Angelfire]

Other than speculation are we 100% sure they lied and covered up? Not being snarky - I just have not been following the case like most of the people here. Is it possible that for so long they were holding on to the hope that she was innocent and that a nanny existed no matter how much everyone else saw through the story? I am not sticking up for them but I wonder how a person's brain copes with all of this - do you ignore everything and hold onto a glimmer of hope that it is not true? And just now they are realizing in the prescence of all this evidence coming out that she did kill their grandaughter?

If they covered up and lied and knew she killed Caylee then I agree - I cannot believe they are sticking by her.

I agree Mara, a lot is speculation but when you go back to the beginning, Cindy knew for a fact that Casey stole from everyone. She also had called her a psycopath to a friend of Caseys. She told Tony he ought to stay away from her before she stole from him. The nanny part is what confuses me. I cannot imagine Cindy, as controlling as she was, in not ever knowing, meeting, or at least talking to this so called nanny. Who would go for almost 2 years and never feel the need to see this person, if just to find out if she was taking good care of her beloved grandchild? She never heard Casey on the phone with the nanny, the nanny never one time called their home. I really think Cindy knew a lot more about Casey not working, her stealing, and she covered for her and paid back money that she had stolen just to keep the "normal" family picture that she wanted everyone to see.

 

[LisaNY]

I agree Mara, a lot is speculation but when you go back to the beginning, Cindy knew for a fact that Casey stole from everyone. She also had called her a psycopath to a friend of Caseys. She told Tony he ought to stay away from her before she stole from him. The nanny part is what confuses me. I cannot imagine Cindy, as controlling as she was, in not ever knowing, meeting, or at least talking to this so called nanny. Who would go for almost 2 years and never feel the need to see this person, if just to find out if she was taking good care of her beloved grandchild? She never heard Casey on the phone with the nanny, the nanny never one time called their home. I really think Cindy knew a lot more about Casey not working, her stealing, and she covered for her and paid back money that she had stolen just to keep the "normal" family picture that she wanted everyone to see.

And don't forget Cindy stating in her interview with LE that she thinks that Nanny Zanny is anyone who kc leaves caylee with (paraphrased) At that time, she did not think that Zanny was one actual person. It was just easier to accept whatever kc told her than to challenge her, I guess.

 

[akashana]

I think, at least in the case of George, that he has come to terms with the probability that KC is guilty of the muder. He and Cindy both may be holding out some faint glimmer of hope that there will be a shred of evidence linking somebody else to the crime, but each day more evidence is produced that refutes this. How George must have struggled with this dilemma considering his own LE background. No wonder he reached his breaking point. And now the threat of charges hangs over Lee's head as well. The Anthonys must dread the idea that they may yet lose their son to an extended jail term. And then the ugly, salacious rumors swirl around re Caylee's paternity! I feel deep sympathy for them at this time. They are caught up in a maelstrom of sordid and malicious rumors, and they have to try to keep up a facade of supporting their daughter. At some point I think that both will come to terms with whatever is proven to be the truth. If they don't do it on an arbitary timetable the public sets up for them, so be it. They have the rest of their lives to accept this horror.

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

I cannot imagine Cindy, as controlling as she was, in not ever knowing, meeting, or at least talking to this so called nanny. Who would go for almost 2 years and never feel the need to see this person, if just to find out if she was taking good care of her beloved grandchild?

Had Casey been telling G&A about the nanny for 2 years? I thought Casey had told some of her friends that she had known the nanny for 2, 4, 6 years (take your pick) but Cindy had just started talking about the nanny at work in the last few months before Caylee disappeared. For some reason I thought the 2 year thing just came from lies Casey told her friends and Cindy only started hearing about the nanny in more recent months after Casey and Christina had a falling out and Christina wasn't babysitting anymore?

 

[lin]

I agree Mara, a lot is speculation but when you go back to the beginning, Cindy knew for a fact that Casey stole from everyone. She also had called her a psycopath to a friend of Caseys. She told Tony he ought to stay away from her before she stole from him. The nanny part is what confuses me. I cannot imagine Cindy, as controlling as she was, in not ever knowing, meeting, or at least talking to this so called nanny. Who would go for almost 2 years and never feel the need to see this person, if just to find out if she was taking good care of her beloved grandchild? She never heard Casey on the phone with the nanny, the nanny never one time called their home. I really think Cindy knew a lot more about Casey not working, her stealing, and she covered for her and paid back money that she had stolen just to keep the "normal" family picture that she wanted everyone to see.

Please allow me to add to your excellent post. (I'm going to anyway, so you may as well! )

Cindy claims she was so up on things that she had papers drawn up getting custody of Caylee should anything happen to Casey. (Lawyer denies but maybe they just got some advice and did it themselves, pro se, so we'll call that a possible 'half-truth.') And yet, this same woman had no idea how to contact the sitter should something happen to Casey? Cindy admitted to LE that she didn't believe there was a nanny named Zbut that Z the nanny referred to whomever had Caylee at the time, whether it be JG or A, etc. That's WHY she didn't have contact info; she knew she didn't really exist.

Also, consider Casey's motivation in making up a sitter. To maintain the job fiction, she had to pretend she had a sitter caring for Caylee while she worked. I've wondered how many times Cindy was told Caylee was with the nanny when she was sleeping on the couch at a party. Casey also needed to have an expense that took much of her paycheck or risk Cindy wanting contributions to her and Caylee's support. IMO, that's why some heard the name long before Caylee went missing. It's also possible, imo, that 'Z the N' started out a complete fiction but Casey surfed to find a plausible real person, in case she was ever called on it, coming up with some details about a real ZFG's life. Remember, there was a Zenaida in one of her classes in HS and also one down the road. While that name may be unusual to some, (I never heard it before this case), it wasn't to Casey. That it comes out sort of like a Dr. Seuss rhyme was probably how the fictional name started; Xanax the nanny or just a suitable rhyme for nanny.

The intended Brady Bunch perception was just one of Cindy's motivations for lying, and her other actions, imo.

 

[lin]

And don't forget Cindy stating in her interview with LE that she thinks that Nanny Zanny is anyone who kc leaves caylee with (paraphrased) At that time, she did not think that Zanny was one actual person. It was just easier to accept whatever kc told her than to challenge her, I guess.

gmta

 

[lin]

I think, at least in the case of George, that he has come to terms with the probability that KC is guilty of the muder. He and Cindy both may be holding out some faint glimmer of hope that there will be a shred of evidence linking somebody else to the crime, but each day more evidence is produced that refutes this. How George must have struggled with this dilemma considering his own LE background. No wonder he reached his breaking point. And now the threat of charges hangs over Lee's head as well. The Anthonys must dread the idea that they may yet lose their son to an extended jail term. And then the ugly, salacious rumors swirl around re Caylee's paternity! I feel deep sympathy for them at this time. They are caught up in a maelstrom of sordid and malicious rumors, and they have to try to keep up a facade of supporting their daughter. At some point I think that both will come to terms with whatever is proven to be the truth. If they don't do it on an arbitary timetable the public sets up for them, so be it. They have the rest of their lives to accept this horror.

Have you seen this video?

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGKHxCr0WmE&feature=channel

Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26m183ljsGg&feature=channel_page

Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QStXw_O4v1Y&feature=channel_page

Part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhUbC7cmtFY&feature=channel_page
Here's the thread where it was discussed:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77434

hat tip to Windchime

 

[Annie Maude]

I think it was the heart sticker on the duct tape that broke them. Besides being a horrifying detail, they may very well have seen heart stickers in the home.

 

[lin]

And here's the post from the sticky threads with the LKL that I think everyone reading this thread should view again:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3041481&postcount=104

Transcript link is there too. It just seems to carry more weight, knowing what we now do, especially watching George.

 

[lin]

I think it was the heart sticker on the duct tape that broke them. Besides being a horrifying detail, they may very well have seen heart stickers in the home.

I did read or hear that somewhere today; that the horse, the blanket and the heart sticker were all links to the home.

 

[nostoneunturned]

There are a lot of questions that need answering before we are able to know the answer.
When did Casey, start "working" again? I know there was a time she said she was at the Sports place but then she had stopped pretending to work there and when did she start saying she was working at University?
How many days did she pretend to work each week?
June 9-July 15 Cindy was talking about Zanny to her workers but how long before that?
If we could find out if Casey was using the ID of ZHG before the arrest, and knew how long she had been using it that would help alot.
I believe AD has a lot of secrets to tell, and I think one of them is the day she got a ticket and Casey was with her, I think Casey produced a ID with ZFH's name on it.If this is true.. then when Casey said the last person she left Caylee with was ZFG because she was using that ID.

 

[jruby]

at first when I saw the ca police tapes I thought wow cindy went through the last 31 days and could recall every lie her daughter said, then i thought you casey was hiding from her parents why would she even take the time to talk to them call them, whatever
especially after that fathers day fight, I dont know id casey came up with all of that but
you know when the police detective looked at CA and said this person doesnt exist this child doesnt exist, this person never worked at so and so, She had a look on her face like gee I never thought the police would have checked out what I said.
I dont know If anyone could ever believe there child killed there own child and did all of this, even if the evidence links there house to the crimescene, Im not sure if I could still breathe, a part of me wants to think the anthonys thought she was a liar and a thief but never thought she could harm that baby, they probably look back and see so many clues of things that wernt right but how do you breathe/survive when you cant change the clock, I dont believe they ever thought she was drugging that baby, so she could party they just thought she lied about her work so she took caylee with her everyday
they never thought the child was locked/drugged in the trunk (at the nannys) and now I bet they dream of her in the trunk, i would not want to be in there shoes.

 

[jruby]

"its not in her best interest to show what she knows about where caylee is"

HELLO, hes acting as if caylee is still alive somewhere
its not in her best interest to tell the prosecutor she killed her and left her in a tbag

 

[mikeysmommom]

I think it was simply a matter of time. Our minds insulate us from pain we cannot bear. The realization dawns slowly and more gently so that we don't go insane. Poor George--I think he knew, and then repressed in order to emotionally survive.

I've never found their behavior to be surprising. Grief does astounding things to a person. And their grief is enormous.

:clap::clap::clap:
Very true I have not found their behavior surprising at all.I believe God designed our minds just as you described it. Otherwise how would we be able to survive the unthinkable.

 

[lin]

"its not in her best interest to show what she knows about where caylee is"

HELLO, hes acting as if caylee is still alive somewhere
its not in her best interest to tell the prosecutor she killed her and left her in a tbag

Exactly. Because if she were alive, there would be no doubt it would be in her best interest to show what she knows about where Caylee is to get herself out of jail. I read that as Jose admitting she was dead.

 

[lin]

There are a lot of questions that need answering before we are able to know the answer.
When did Casey, start "working" again? I know there was a time she said she was at the Sports place but then she had stopped pretending to work there and when did she start saying she was working at University?
How many days did she pretend to work each week?
June 9-July 15 Cindy was talking about Zanny to her workers but how long before that?
If we could find out if Casey was using the ID of ZHG before the arrest, and knew how long she had been using it that would help alot.
I believe AD has a lot of secrets to tell, and I think one of them is the day she got a ticket and Casey was with her, I think Casey produced a ID with ZFH's name on it.If this is true.. then when Casey said the last person she left Caylee with was ZFG because she was using that ID.

I'm pretty sure RG said he'd heard the name over a year before Caylee disappeared. It was on a NG show, if that helps. Someone here will know for sure and there may be an old thread about it somewhere. I think it started out as a cover story for her non-existent job then morphed into her alibi. Why wouldn't LE believe it? Her parents and friends had been believing it for a long time.

 

[lin]

at first when I saw the ca police tapes I thought wow cindy went through the last 31 days and could recall every lie her daughter said, then i thought you casey was hiding from her parents why would she even take the time to talk to them call them, whatever
especially after that fathers day fight, I dont know id casey came up with all of that but
you know when the police detective looked at CA and said this person doesnt exist this child doesnt exist, this person never worked at so and so, She had a look on her face like gee I never thought the police would have checked out what I said.I dont know If anyone could ever believe there child killed there own child and did all of this, even if the evidence links there house to the crimescene, Im not sure if I could still breathe, a part of me wants to think the anthonys thought she was a liar and a thief but never thought she could harm that baby, they probably look back and see so many clues of things that wernt right but how do you breathe/survive when you cant change the clock, I dont believe they ever thought she was drugging that baby, so she could party they just thought she lied about her work so she took caylee with her everyday
they never thought the child was locked/drugged in the trunk (at the nannys) and now I bet they dream of her in the trunk, i would not want to be in there shoes.

Bolded by me.

And neither did KC.

I agree with you that I don't think they suspected drugging and naps in the trunk or they would have acted sooner. The guilt must be horrendous and I have sympathy for almost anyone suffering like that. I say 'almost' because, well, if Casey suddenly grows a conscience, I don't think I could muster any for her, given the many lives she has destroyed, in addition to what she did to poor Caylee.

 

[akashana]

Actually, lin, I had seen it, but I watched it again. It doesn't change the compassion that I feel for the grandparents, however. The fact that their obliviousness (is that a word?) about their daughter's behavior may have contributed to Caylee's demise must cause them a great deal of guilt and anguish. While I believe that they were fundamentally good grandparents, there were glaring omissions they should have seen but didn't. Now they have to live the rest of their lives with the knowledge that they could have saved Caylee by asking the right questions and getting custody, and they didn't. I can't even begin to imagine that kind of enduring psychic pain. I think that the denial stems from this. Once they accept that KC murdered their granddaughter, they have to own their role in it. It must be a terrible burden, and I personally don't know how they have not crackecd before now. I'm almost positive that I would have. I think that the day will come when they are forced to accept it, however.

Denial is a powerful coping mechanism. It's what gets people through terrible traumas that they couldn't otherwise endure. I've seen it in hospice patients (and their relatives) whose minds can't accept their impending death, so in order to function, they choose not to acknowledge their own mortality. As this is the death of their granddaughter, and the death of the lives they formerly lived, as nothing will ever be the same in that family ever again, I think the same coping mechanisms are in place. I am not excusing anything they did to mislead investigators. I simply feel that this is too much psychic trauma for them to accept. It will come with time.